Rotten sill plate blues

[Rob_Red]

I have a few areas where the sill plate is rotting out in my home. I have been attacking this with a multi prong campaign of water diversion, proper flashing and replacement of rot.

My question is should I attach the new sections of sill plate with hammer set nails to the concrete foundation? I haven’t gotten into it yet but the original threaded rod is probably no longer good.

also this section of house does not have an accessible crawl space.

I have the general procedure down but is there anything soecial I should consider or lookout for?

 

[Highbeam]

You must have access from above to be considering ram set nails. How about tap con screws? Or even red head concrete anchors? Both require predrilling with a regular rotohammer drill.

 

[John Galt]

Nails do not meet code for load bearing walls. Concrete anchors or Simpson Titen concrete screws work great. Look into those. The nails can just blow out a chunk of concrete below the plate or not penetrate deep since the slab is cured.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How big are these sections? If its just a couple feet, I wouldn't worry about it slipping off the foundation. Longer, and I might worry more.

 

[Rob_Red]

Thanks for the advice, I haven’t fully opened it up yet but I can feel the mush now that the siding is off, so I don’t know the extent of it yet. I will for sure use the concrete screws.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Pull the sheathing. Hopefully the sill hasn't rotted all the way through.

 

[Rob_Red]

I’m praying for that! We just moved into this place, the sheathing in question was buried in soil about 5 inches, this house has sill plates bellow grade in one corner and all sorts of problems have been allowed to happen.

 

[Bad LP]

As mentioned, nails are no good.
With the siding and sheathing removed you'll have full access to the wall studs and the plates. You have to replace the insulation anyway so no reason not to properly attach the new plated to the concrete. It's going to be much faster to run a saw a foot or two above the plate, remove, replace and refinish.

 

[SpaceBus]

My house was someone's neglected vacation home with grass rooted in the sill plates on 2/3's of the first floor. I ended up having to replace most of the studs and sill plates. I was lucky enough to be able to save the threaded rod in most places, but used construction adhesive for the sections I couldn't get a fastener. The dirt was like your house and above the slab in some areas.

 

[Highbeam]

You should anticipate not only replacing the sill plate but also the bottom plate and at least part of the studs. This means interior wall surface work as well.

Water damage is no fun.

 

[Rob_Red]

@Highbeam hope this isn’t the case but I am bracing for the worst!

I’m sure the rim joist will need to be replaced as well, hoping it hasn’t reached the bottom plate or studs

if I see stud damage can I remove the rot, replace the section and sister additional 2x4 along side? What’s the protocol other than replacing the whole stud which I really don’t want to do

also I was planning on replacing everything with treated wood including sheathing. What do you all think about this?

 

[SpaceBus]

It's probably not to code to sister the rotten studs, but I have done it. Before I was really aware of extensive our water damage was I just cut the rot out the first stud, replaced the bottom part, sistered a 2x6 on the side and moved on. When I realized almost all of the studs were rotten at the bottom we just stripped the house and got to work.

 

[semipro]

All wood in contact with masonry should be treated.
Also, consider that this may be a good time to install termite shields if appropriate for your area.
The installation of sill seal may be a good idea too.

 

[Highbeam]

@Highbeam hope this isn’t the case but I am bracing for the worst!

I’m sure the rim joist will need to be replaced as well, hoping it hasn’t reached the bottom plate or studs

if I see stud damage can I remove the rot, replace the section and sister additional 2x4 along side? What’s the protocol other than replacing the whole stud which I really don’t want to do

also I was planning on replacing everything with treated wood including sheathing. What do you all think about this?

We don’t have a rim joist, just thick floor decking nailed to the sill plate. That run joist might save your wall framing.

I have definitely sistered studs after cutting off the rotten bottom of a stud. I will replace the rotted section with new as well so in the end it’s almost like a double stud.

 

[SpaceBus]

We don’t have a rim joist, just thick floor decking nailed to the sill plate. That run joist might save your wall framing.

I have definitely sistered studs after cutting off the rotten bottom of a stud. I will replace the rotted section with new as well so in the end it’s almost like a double stud.

I am genuinely shocked at how strong something can be when sistered.

 

[Rob_Red]

@SpaceBus do you know why your house rotted so much?

The other side of this will be preventing it from reoccurring.

 

[SpaceBus]

@SpaceBus do you know why your house rotted so much?

The other side of this will be preventing it from reoccurring.

In our case it started at the bottom on the east wall from soil accumulating against the side of the house. Once the soil was against the house grass grew and the roots reached under the flashing and destroyed the sill plate. On our south side it came from cantilevered decks and poorly installed sliding glass doors. We don't have decks on the second floor sliders any more, but we plan on installing some sort of Juliet Balcony.

 

[Rob_Red]

My house is almost an identical situation!

 

[SpaceBus]

My house is almost an identical situation!

Our house was built in '76, but sold to out of state owners in '84 who neglected it until we purchased in 2018. Our bank wouldn't let the deal go through without the cantilevered decks being replaced so they hired a contractor to build freestanding decks that were screwed into the house. There was a continuous layer of plastic on the inside of the studs that trapped the water coming in from the old cantilevered decks/grass infiltration/leaky sliders. We also get a pretty consistent wind from the southwest that blew the rain directly at the old sliders which just weren't installed well to begin with. We saw the house, with a carpenter relative, on dry days and inspected on a dry day as well. Two carpenters looked at the house four times total and couldn't find any interior water damage or reason to think the whole house was messed up. Our first night in the house was a thunderstorm and water was just pouring through behind the trim at the top of the first floor sliders and we knew it was not good. At some point on our first night I also found a 6" long salamander wandering across the living room floor, another sign there was a lot of water somewhere.

Glad to hear we aren't alone! We still aren't done with renovations but it's pretty water tight now and structurally sound.

 

[begreen]

Our house was resting on a 8x6 doug fir timber on its south (weathering) side. With deep eaves this served well for its first 80 yrs, but by the time we took ownership, it was getting rotten. The side "foundation" was a combo of piers and rock or cement filler. In several locations, the crawlspace was down to 1 ft. This was an open invitation for rodents, etc. I tried blocking off several passages, but they would just find another way in and up through the walls. In 2006 I bit the bullet, raised the whole house so that a proper foundation could be established and set the house down on it, now 30" higher. It was costly, but has turned out to be a real blessing. No more cold floors, a workable crawlspace and no more rodents.

 

[Rob_Red]

Glad I’m not the only one who bought a house with these types of problems. It’s not the best feeling finding this stuff a year after purchase, this is turning into a pretty big expense.

The other frustrating thing is I can do most of this work my self however I also run a business which has me occupied 50-60 hours per week and on the road traveling quite a bit. I run into very few contractors that I’m impressed with.

 

[fire_man]

Glad I’m not the only one who bought a house with these types of problems. It’s not the best feeling finding this stuff a year after purchase, this is turning into a pretty big expense.

The other frustrating thing is I can do most of this work my self however I also run a business which has me occupied 50-60 hours per week and on the road traveling quite a bit. I run into very few contractors that I’m impressed with.

Was there a home inspection prior to purchase that missed this?

 

[Rob_Red]

Was there a home inspection prior to purchase that missed this?

There was, however the sills were buried. He only wrote for what he could see, I now know this is a major red flag

 

[fire_man]

I figured these days inspectors had more tricks up their sleave to find hidden damage with all the new scanning tools. It's ben a while since I bought a house. After owning a house for so many years I'm hoping I've learned some "red flags".

 

[Rob_Red]

I figured these days inspectors had more tricks up their sleave to find hidden damage with all the new scanning tools. It's ben a while since I bought a house. After owning a house for so many years I'm hoping I've learned some "red flags".

yeah the move was super stressful and time crunched, new state, new job, new wife, also not many good houses available in in our price range and now we are dealing with the aftermath.

Happy with the land and most aspects of the house, but I now have discovered some issues that will lead to big projects if I want things to be nice (which I can't help, I'm a perfectionist). Luckily I have plenty of years to get things sorted one by one!