Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
do the break in fires and then go light with the scotch cloth.. should come out..
2022/23 VC Owner thread
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So how do I know if my CAT is dead? Now that I have the Auber installed I was looking for the CAT to do things described in this thread once it was lit off. I had assumed that once I had it lit off the other night (brought it up to 850) once I turned the air down to bring the STT down that the cat temp would go up. Instead the CAT temp dropped to 550-600 degrees. It stayed there, but I had 500-600 STT so it seemed to be keeping with the STT most of the time.
How often should I clean my stove/glass? Is this a regular thing? Once a season?
I dont have a ton of creosote or anything. If the glass gets dirty or foggy from and overnight burn I just run a hot fire and it gets mostly clean.
I dont have a ton of creosote or anything. If the glass gets dirty or foggy from and overnight burn I just run a hot fire and it gets mostly clean.
There are alot of experts on here that can give you great advice, and they helped me immensely. However, there is a sense that the VC overall are a more challenging stove with quirks that can't be explained with science. Even the manual suggests operating a wood stove is more of an art. That being said, I think these new VCs have some design quirks. I sat there looking at my stove and where ash accumulates, and just could for the life of me figure out how you would get efficient air flow the way it is design. Of course, Im not an airflow engineer (if such a thing exists). If you saw what my glass looked like after an overnight burn (without the cat which the book doesnt say you must have for an overnight burn), you would be shocked. I then had a stove pipe start crackling and pinging, and smoke puffing out once when I let the fire whoosh up the primary into the stove pipe, after 1/2 of a face cord! Using less than 20% MC wood, (that was meticulously checked and rechecked, then eventually my moisture meter checked against my neighbors much more expensive MM that he offered to give to me)
I have not heard from an expert stove installer, sweep or operator that has one of the modern VC's. Id love to get their opinions after owning one.
When you link the statement together that the chimney guy suggested not to close off secondary, and overfiring the cat, Im not sure what you mean. If you are constantly overfiring the cat then your cat is probably bad. Closing off the primary vs secondary I dont think would reduce the creosote in your stove, if anything I would think it would increase it if you continue to operate it in the manner you are. The book says you can go from very low to very high with this stove BTU wise, but in my experience you have to run a fairly hot fire constantly until you have a great bed of coals then switch over to secondary to get that secondary burn which should be much cleaner regardless if you have the cat installed or not. When I run my stove hot, and am burning on secondary, I see almost NO smoke. I just see heat waves, that's all. yet, I still had my stove pipe burn off creosote that was built up in there from when the stove starts up and then runs too low and just spills out tons of smoke.
Im constantly running outside to look at smoke coming out of chimney. Constantly trying to find that overnight burn sweat spot whereas I wake up to coals vs fine ash and a cold room. Coals, equals black doors and brick - and likely a massive amount of creosote in my chimney. Ash, burning hot and probably got hotter than I like overnight while I wasnt looking (above 650) and then burned down too quickly. The advertised set it and the stove automagically regulates airflow to keep the same temperature is a MASSIVE MASSIVE misrepresentation and IMO false advertising.
Im going to install the cat because I was urged to do so from the folks on here to be able to burn lower temps cleanly. For how often I burn, I thought eh - sure it will burn a bit more dirty but I wouldnt expect to need to sweep for 1-2 cords. Not a fraction of that.
Diabel
Minister of Fire
What you describe is a classic cat stall. Almost always caused by unseasoned wood.
Diabel
Minister of Fire
To add:
Once you cat temp reaches 850 and you close the bypass the cat temp should raise fairly quickly to around 1200~. Fairly quickly I mean within 5min
Interesting. I'm burning Maple that I cut/split/stacked Spring 2021. While I will admit the area that I have it stacked doesn't get the most sun, it has been covered for 18 months. I'll have to take some more MC reading. I tested a few pieces on a fresh cut and they were all sub 20%. Maybe I had a few larger pieces in that weren't as dry and I thought they were.
Assuming that this was for me. If I remember correctly I got the STT up to about 525 or so and closed that damper. I let it run full air for about 10-15 minutes and the CAT settled around 820 or something like that. I then cut the air back by about 1/2 and promptly watched my CAT temp drop.
Diabel
Minister of Fire
The other cause of a stalled cat is by cutting the air too fast.
When I had my VC Encore, the only meters I paid attention to was the cat meter (Auber is great, instant read out) and flue probe meter installed 18” above the stove. I had also the stove top thermometer but never paid attention to it.
That could be. I'll keep an eye on it a little more next time. This was Friday night so I might not be remembering the timing correctly. Also because it isn't quite cold enough for a full load I have been burning some uglies that could have a higher MC because I'm not going to deal with splitting an knotted ugly to test the MC.
Related to this, couple times I get spikes on my CAT temp. I will load the stove for an overnight, solid bed of coals, CAT temps anywhere from 900-1100 then maybe an hour or two in I will get a 1600 spike for about 20 min then it settles. Normal ?
I would think that the CAT would still be too hot to reload at that point. Although I'm obviously still trying trying to get the hang of everything even after a year.
Curious what air setting you have on when this happens? As I understand, when you are trying to utilize the cat for lower overnight burns you can turn down the air significantly and not worry that you are creating a creosote monster.
So that would be after my initial burn. I get a nice hot fire let it burn to coals. Load it and shut the damper. CAT always fires up to 800-1000 right away. Most of the time I get a spike to 1200-1300 then it settles back. But sometimes it will then fire way up
This is air all the way closed off. Once my CAT is engaged and at temp I usually always have the air shut min halfway but at night all the way so it burns slow and provides long heat. Been getting 8-10 hours of burn time pretty consistently. Wake up to a bed of coals, push them all back and toss a couple small splits and it's good to go again
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
For you guys with partial loads.. Keep the wood towards the back of the stove.. get the stove up to temperature and close the bypass.. let it run a little bit and let the cat get close to 1k prior to cutting back the air. cut the air back in increments..
When I have anything at the back of the stove I get the "afterburner" sound. I had read in the manual that this could be the sign of an overfire. I assume that as long as temps are under 1600 or so at the cat and the STT isn't super high then it isn't overfiring.
Well there isnt much to these stoves so 'the back' is literally like inches from the middle and inches from the front.
And yes I get that afterburner sound somewhat when I have well burning wood and the air control wide open with logs toward 'the back'.
It's not super bad but I do hear it when up close. I also get this if I open the damper and open the top hatch for awhile, flames rush up the stove pipe. I only have a 15' total run, so I dont think it is overdrafting.
I'd doubt that you have too much draft. The down draft stoves require a good draft. I'm not sure how tall my run is, but I have a 2 story with a roof thats pretty steep. Also my stove is smaller than yours so I'd imagine that overdraft would affect mine first. However I did have 9 inches of insulation blown in the attic last Friday and I noticed that it was harder to get the stove going. I have only lit it once, so I can't be sure that it was due to the insulation, but that may be what did it.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
I get that sound every so often.. not a big deal. Sometimes the cat lights off slow, sometimes fast. I did a reload yesterday and it did that. Cat got to like 1175. What you need to do is just watch the cat temp.. not saying stand there, just be mindful of it.
xanadu1797
Member
Hey everyone,
I’m looking for an explanation of the secondary air intake on my Encore 2040.
I closed it off. The stove seems to be running great. Doesn’t it seem strange that it would improve the stove to block off such a major part of the airflow design?
I’m looking for an explanation of the secondary air intake on my Encore 2040.
I closed it off. The stove seems to be running great. Doesn’t it seem strange that it would improve the stove to block off such a major part of the airflow design?
Jimmy C
Member
I closed off mine last year (2550) and had much better burn times and no over-firing of the CAT. Only problem is i built much more creosote than normal which I am going to attribute to closing down the cat too fast without having a good coal bed. This year I will look to get more coals in the box before shutting everything down. There are definitely a lot more people on here who know much more about this topic than me though. I still have some questioning on the method myself. I think the explanation is that the design of these stoves (downdraft, top loading etc.) makes them very draft sensitive. So it is hard to create a secondary air mechanism that will work for every situation.
Jimmy C
Member
It is on the back of the stove above primary air flap. There is a panel that covers it, which can be taken off by two screws. The secondary air flap is controlled by a bimetallic coil (much like one used in a stovetop thermometer) that opens and closed the flap based on the temperature in the secondary burn chamber. In theory at least.
I don't know how I never knew this? I didn't see anything in the manual about it either. If you don't mind, you are referring to the "opening" above the primary air intake in my picture? I never took anything off/on here, I assume mine is open?
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