Blaze king ashford 30.1 smoke smell/ air leak.

[Ashful]

Someone here, I wish I could remember now, started to notice most of those noticing smoke smell had taller chimneys. Their theory was that tall chimneys caused enough velocity coming off the air wash, to cause a small localized positive pressure near the door, thus pushing out smell from a creosote-soaked gasket. The theory seemed like it had merit at the time.

Again, I'd be calling the factory or PM'ing @BKVP. As noted, they've already solved this issue for multiple folks, and while it would be good if they could post the solution(s) here, there may be reasons they are keeping them internal. Either way, I suspect they'll get you fixed up, right quick.

 

[bmikeb]

That's a sirocco. Same difference

I saw on this thread that everyone was talking about ashfor and the sirocco having the same problem..... So I thought I'd add it here rather than make a new thread for the same issue and possibly related in case anyone else was searching.

 

[stoveliker]

Same firebox. I wonder if the slightly different door plays a role.

But, in my view it's fine here. But who am I...

 

[BKVP]

Actually, completely different based upon door mounting procedures. Question for OP. When you lay wood on top of hot coals with door open, does smoke spill into the room?

When you close the door, with a large load of wood and thermostat on high, does firebox fill up with smoke with bypass closed? With bypass opened?

Also, what is your stoves serial number? Not that it matters to but there are very, very few of your model with smoke smell issues. I know of 2 in the USA in past 7 years.

BKVP

 

[bmikeb]

Actually, completely different based upon door mounting procedures. Question for OP. When you lay wood on top of hot coals with door open, does smoke spill into the room?

When you close the door, with a large load of wood and thermostat on high, does firebox fill up with smoke with bypass closed? With bypass opened?

Also, what is your stoves serial number? Not that it matters to but there are very, very few of your model with smoke smell issues. I know of 2 in the USA in past 7 years.

BKVP

Hi,

Actually, completely different based upon door mounting procedures. Question for OP. When you lay wood on top of hot coals with door open, does smoke spill into the room?

I believe so but not much. I've only had 1 fire where I reloaded.

When you close the door, with a large load of wood and thermostat on high, does firebox fill up with smoke with bypass closed? With bypass opened?

Yes. Yes. I fill up with wood light fire with door cracked open until burning very hot. upon closing the door, smoke appears going in the down direction in front of the door regardless of bypass.

Also, what is your stoves serial number? Not that it matters to but there are very, very few of your model with smoke smell issues. I know of 2 in the USA in past 7 years.

22.3210

 

[BKVP]

Hi,

Actually, completely different based upon door mounting procedures. Question for OP. When you lay wood on top of hot coals with door open, does smoke spill into the room?

I believe so but not much. I've only had 1 fire where I reloaded.

When you close the door, with a large load of wood and thermostat on high, does firebox fill up with smoke with bypass closed? With bypass opened?

Yes. Yes. I fill up with wood light fire with door cracked open until burning very hot. upon closing the door, smoke appears going in the down direction in front of the door regardless of bypass.

Also, what is your stoves serial number? Not that it matters to but there are very, very few of your model with smoke smell issues. I know of 2 in the USA in past 7 years.

22.3210

There is something going wrong with your chimney/draft. If you have a hot coal bed and load a bunch of wood on top of those coals and the bypass is open, smoke should go straight out of the firebox and up the stack. When you turn the thermostat knob to high, is the rod it is connected to also turning? Perhaps the knob is slipping? I think you posted the dealer is going to come look it over. Ask them for a brief but thorough proper operation demonstration. One other thought, do not get the stove too hot (you said very hot) because the thermostat will think the stove is over firing and shut down, decreasing combustion air. The door should only be kept open long enough enough for a fire to start. If you close the door at this point and the fire dies out, only 3 things could make that happen:

1) Thermostat knob is slipping
2) The fuel is too wet to burn
3) The stack is not performing as it should

Check to see if the cap has a spark arrestor screen. If it does, clean it thoroughly. You'll need to get up close to really tell if it's clear. Be careful on the roof!

 

[bmikeb]

There is something going wrong with your chimney/draft. If you have a hot coal bed and load a bunch of wood on top of those coals and the bypass is open, smoke should go straight out of the firebox and up the stack. When you turn the thermostat knob to high, is the rod it is connected to also turning? Perhaps the knob is slipping? I think you posted the dealer is going to come look it over. Ask them for a brief but thorough proper operation demonstration. One other thought, do not get the stove too hot (you said very hot) because the thermostat will think the stove is over firing and shut down, decreasing combustion air. The door should only be kept open long enough enough for a fire to start. If you close the door at this point and the fire dies out, only 3 things could make that happen:

1) Thermostat knob is slipping
2) The fuel is too wet to burn
3) The stack is not performing as it should

Check to see if the cap has a spark arrestor screen. If it does, clean it thoroughly. You'll need to get up close to really tell if it's clear. Be careful on the r

Great. This is a brand new install.

The thermostat works. When the knob is turned the fire acts accordingly.

The fire is not going out after closing the door. I leav it open to make sure I have a draft and everything is burning. Maybe about 10 minutes. I set on high and I close the door with the cat bypassed. I see smoke billow. I engage the cat once the temp gauge reaches 12 oclock.

 

[stoveliker]

Have you measured the moisture content of your wood (by measuring on a freshly exposed surface after resplitting a piece)?

 

[bmikeb]

Have you measured the moisture content of your wood (by measuring on a freshly exposed surface after resplitting a piece)?

just took 3 random samples. ~16%

 

[bmikeb]

I want to add. When I said above that I leave the door open for 10 minutes, it has to be cracked open. If I open it all the way smoke comes out.

Someone said this is a "feature" of catalytic stoves.

 

[stoveliker]

just took 3 random samples. ~16%

You took three splits, *re-split them* and them measured along the grain on the (now exposed) inside surface?

 

[bmikeb]

You took three splits, *re-split them* and them measured along the grain on the (now exposed) inside surface?

Yes? 3 separate 1/4-1/3 rounds. split them down the middle and measured the inside of each.

 

[stoveliker]

Then it may not be the wood. (Sorry for being a stickler on that measurement method; I've seen many people claiming low mc, and only after repeated explicit pressing it becomes clear they measured on the outside of the splits as they had been drying.)
The pipe seems tall enough, though that measure is only a proxy for the draft you need (0.05 wc, I believe), so it does not say everything.

If you close the door, you say smoke goes down along the window. That makes sense because that is where the air comes down. However, if you have a ripping fire and you close the door, my stove does not show smoke (regardless of how it flows in the box). That still suggests that not enough air is being pulled in (hence the chimney questions earlier).
Or the thermostat, indeed.

I'll let BKVP be more helpful than I can be

 

[bmikeb]

Then it may not be the wood. (Sorry for being a stickler on that measurement method; I've seen many people claiming low mc, and only after repeated explicit pressing it becomes clear they measured on the outside of the splits as they had been drying.)
The pipe seems tall enough, though that measure is only a proxy for the draft you need (0.05 wc, I believe), so it does not say everything.

If you close the door, you say smoke goes down along the window. That makes sense because that is where the air comes down. However, if you have a ripping fire and you close the door, my stove does not show smoke (regardless of how it flows in the box). That still suggests that not enough air is being pulled in (hence the chimney questions earlier).
Or the thermostat, indeed.

I'll let BKVP be more helpful than I can be

I really appreciate anything you got. Thank you.

 

[BKVP]

Yes? 3 separate 1/4-1/3 rounds. split them down the middle and measured the inside of each.

Was the wood room temperature for 24 hours prior to testing?

 

[stoveliker]

It's Asheville NC.

Even if it was 20 F outside rather than 70 F, the 16 pct would be 20-21 pct. That should not be resulting in a performance like this, if the manual says to burn wood with less than 25 pct mc

 

[bmikeb]

Was the wood room temperature for 24 hours prior to testing?

No. It was outside. Temperature was about 30-35

 

[bmikeb]

It's Asheville NC.

Even if it was 20 F outside rather than 70 F, the 16 pct would be 20-21 pct. That should not be resulting in a performance like this, if the manual says to burn wood with less than 25 pct mc

Was the wood room temperature for 24 hours prior to testing?

Maybe I have a junk tester:

Amazon product ASIN B0967ZP5B1

 

[stoveliker]

No such thing. Mine was $25 too, I believe. It's simple technology. Junk would be one that breaks quickly, but the accuracy is more or less the same - at least precise enough for the measurement (location in and thicknes of the split, wood species, temperature all will be different than how the resistance-moisture content was calibrated).

 

[BKVP]

No. It was outside. Temperature was about 30-35

If the water in the wood is frozen, the resistance measured by the meter get a false value. Try the above and see what the readings are.

Also, if the smoke spills into the room with bypass open, then there may be a draft issue.

If there is insufficient draft, then it's difficult to get absolute peak heat output on high AND you can't turn down the stove as low as perhaps desired because of insufficient air being pulled into the firebox.

 

[bmikeb]

If the water in the wood is frozen, the resistance measured by the meter get a false value. Try the above and see what the readings are.

Also, if the smoke spills into the room with bypass open, then there may be a draft issue.

If there is insufficient draft, then it's difficult to get absolute peak heat output on high AND you can't turn down the stove as low as perhaps desired because of insufficient air being pulled into the firebox.

Not sure if this matters but it runs on low. I really appreciate the help. Thank you. I'll recheck the readings but I'm almost positive it was not frozen.

 

[BKVP]

No such thing. Mine was $25 too, I believe. It's simple technology. Junk would be one that breaks quickly, but the accuracy is more or less the same - at least precise enough for the measurement (location in and thicknes of the split, wood species, temperature all will be different than how the resistance-moisture content was calibrated).

Sorry, there are! I did a study for EPA on consumer grade moisture meters. 2 pins, four pins, margin of repeatability etc. All were compared to the bench mark data of the Delmhorst J-2000. Funny enough, some of the cheapest has highest degree of repeatability but a greater deviation than benchmark data. I'll try to dig that out and seek EPA approval to post here.

Incidentally and most importantly, regardless of the degree of accuracy, it shows both desire and willingness by consumers to be mindful of fuel m.c.

 

[Ashful]

Wood stored outside under cover will eventually equilibrium, which happens to be 14.7% MC in October in Asheville, NC. So, 16% is possible... if the wood has been stored under cover a few years.

https://www.fpl.fs.usda.gov/documnts/fplrn/fplrn268.pdf

But the reason people keep going back to wood is history, we have dozens of similar threads per year (not with regard to smell, but with regard to some of the other things I quoted below), which after some initial push-back, very frequently end in a wet wood analysis. So, there's no saying that you have wet wood, but it is always worth digging deep, on this subject.

You said a few things that would appear to be signs of struggling with wet wood, here:

I fill up with wood light fire with door cracked open until burning very hot.

When I said above that I leave the door open for 10 minutes, it has to be cracked open.

If I open it all the way smoke comes out.

Someone said this is a "feature" of catalytic stoves.

I have never run either of my BK 30's with the door cracked for more than 3 minutes on a cold start, and more often it's less than that. At 10 minutes, I'd think they'd be approaching permanent damage, but I'm not going to try it to prove a point. I have one of my BK30's on a chimney that's less than recommended height, and it still takes off like a banshee with the door cracked, because my wood is dry.

But I do remember having to play these games in my first year of stoving on an old Jotul, with wet wood. I'd get the thing going nicely, and then it would snuff out when I close the doors. I'd have to get it literally raging to keep it from dying when closing the door... on the same chimney that now works fine with dry wood. Is that what you're seeing from your setup?

No smoke comes out of my stoves when I open the door on a warmed chimney, that is NOT a feature of cat stoves. In fact, with the bypass open, they should breathe up the pipe easier than even any non-cat. But many chimneys stall when not warm (my short one does), and it is mighty tough to achieve a warmed chimney when you're sending water vapor up the pipe, which again gets us back to wet wood as real possibility.

Again, I'm not arguing that you do have wet wood, I really don't know. Just trying to help piece together this puzzle, and latching onto what seems like a line we should chase. I'd get some framing lumber, which is usually KD'd to around 8 - 12%, and burn a mixed load of 50% framing lumber with 50% your cord wood, interspersed. Let's see how it behaves, both with regard to how soon you can close the door without killing the fire, how it burns, and if it smells.

 

[stoveliker]

Sorry, there are! I did a study for EPA on consumer grade moisture meters. 2 pins, four pins, margin of repeatability etc. All were compared to the bench mark data of the Delmhorst J-2000. Funny enough, some of the cheapest has highest degree of repeatability but a greater deviation than benchmark data. I'll try to dig that out and seek EPA approval to post here.

Incidentally and most importantly, regardless of the degree of accuracy, it shows both desire and willingness by consumers to be mindful of fuel m.c.

Yes, I've seen 3 pct difference in reading or so. But that does not matter all that.much if the reading is below 20 pct. 23 is doable. 17 is much better.

17 vs 27 will matter.

I have not seen errors between (3 low cost) meters that are beypnd the stated accuracy of the meters.

 

[bmikeb]

Wood stored outside under cover will eventually equilibrium, which happens to be 14.7% MC in October in Asheville, NC. So, 16% is possible... if the wood has been stored under cover a few years.

https://www.fpl.fs.usda.gov/documnts/fplrn/fplrn268.pdf

But the reason people keep going back to wood is history, we have dozens of similar threads per year (not with regard to smell, but with regard to some of the other things I quoted below), which after some initial push-back, very frequently end in a wet wood analysis. So, there's no saying that you have wet wood, but it is always worth digging deep, on this subject.

You said a few things that would appear to be signs of struggling with wet wood, here:







I have never run either of my BK 30's with the door cracked for more than 3 minutes on a cold start, and more often it's less than that. At 10 minutes, I'd think they'd be approaching permanent damage, but I'm not going to try it to prove a point. I have one of my BK30's on a chimney that's less than recommended height, and it still takes off like a banshee with the door cracked, because my wood is dry.

But I do remember having to play these games in my first year of stoving on an old Jotul, with wet wood. I'd get the thing going nicely, and then it would snuff out when I close the doors. I'd have to get it literally raging to keep it from dying when closing the door... on the same chimney that now works fine with dry wood. Is that what you're seeing from your setup?

No smoke comes out of my stoves when I open the door on a warmed chimney, that is NOT a feature of cat stoves. In fact, with the bypass open, they should breathe up the pipe easier than even any non-cat. But many chimneys stall when not warm (my short one does), and it is mighty tough to achieve a warmed chimney when you're sending water vapor up the pipe, which again gets us back to wet wood as real possibility.

Again, I'm not arguing that you do have wet wood, I really don't know. Just trying to help piece together this puzzle, and latching onto what seems like a line we should chase. I'd get some framing lumber, which is usually KD'd to around 8 - 12%, and burn a mixed load of 50% framing lumber with 50% your cord wood, interspersed. Let's see how it behaves, both with regard to how soon you can close the door without killing the fire, how it burns, and if it smells.

What I mean by burning very hot is just burn until it's vigourous. I've only used the stove 4 times Still getting used to it. The first fires I lit from the bottom. The last one I did top down and left the door open longer to make sure it would work. First time.

Also, I knew I was having an issue so I left the door cracked longer than usual to see if it made a difference. It did not.

I'll retest the wood tomorrow. Bringing a few pieces into the garage where the temps are in the 50s.

The installers are bringing their own wood in tomorrow to test as well so I suspect it's going to be dry.