Does heating with wood really save money??

In my case my system with saws and ancillary equipment paid for itself in about 2 years. Where can you get a risk free 50% return on an investment.

I chose wood mainly because you are in control of much more than just money. It also serves as a hedge against adverse events like power outages, hyperinflation etc. I am performing productive exercise in scrounging. Any stress can be channelled into splitting wood. I can set the temperature to what is comfortable and not fret about it and have the entertainment value of viewing the fire (OK I am a pyro).
It also can serve as a teaching tool to establish a work ethic.

I think we are arguing about two different types of calculations. it is one thing to calculate how much money one saves by using a wood stove once it is installed, and another thing to calculate how much one will save if he installs a wood stove. If you have a house and pay heating bills, then if you install a wood stove and still pay heating bills, all you have to do is compare the two bills to know how much money you are saving. If you want to include the full cost of heating with wood you can add up the cost of the stove, wood, chainsaws, etc. and compare that cost to the monthly savings. This is fairly easy, and my calculation tells me I am saving money. I have reduced by electric bills about $200 per month year round (bills are averaged to smooth out the high and low electric use months, or maybe just to make it hard to figure out how my bill is calculated). I know what the stove cost, wood is free, and most of other things I need I already had, so I could figure out how long the payback on the stove will take. I recall my calculations indicate about two or three years to payback.

On the other hand to figure out how much you might save in the future you have to know all about the electric rates including peak rates, variable rates that change due to weather or daily usage, etc. This is harder and leads you into a bunch of hypothetical questions regarding when you will use the stove, how much the backup heat will have to run during the coldest weather, etc.

For me saving money is financially good, of course, but the savings are much more important as part of the overall enjoyment of wood heat than as a financial benefit. I could earn a lot more money by working an extra hour than I can save by collecting wood for an hour, so in that sense scrounging firewood doesn't make sense financially, but nevertheless I enjoy scrounging firewood in part because I know it will save me money, and I like the self-sufficiency aspect of wood heat. In this case the financial benefits of wodd heat are worth more than the actual dollars I save.

Silent heat with the beautiful flames.......

We're having "smart" meters installed in our town so time-of-day billing is probably only 2 years down the road. With electric forced air heating (80A x 240V = 19,000W), I can't choose not to heat during high times so I'd get screwed even more than I am now (first winter bill when we moved in = $560!)

I'm hoping I'll save on the electric bill, even if the furnace only runs 2/3 of the time it'll be worth it to me not to have to pay as much hydro. Plus, all the firewood is free, mostly within 5min drive. Also get to be out getting exercise and hopefully teach my two boys (3 and 5) that it's ok to be out working.

Should have a good idea after this winter

Purely on cash terms, we broke even within a year.

3 years ago our utility bills were over £1000, and we could not afford to heat the house properly.

Instalation cost £600, and within a year our utility bills were down to under £400.

Today, our annual utility bills are still under £500, and electricity look like it will rise again in January.

We already had the saws, axes, maul, a wedge, and a sledgehammer, our only new investment being a wood grenade.

The house is now as cosy as we want it, our wood is basically free, and we are independant of the system.

Independance is priceless............

Meh. I save a little each year. I have three kids, all under 5. I don't have time to scrounge wood every weekend, so I buy some (at about $50-$80 a truckload) and also have some wood I cut and split from clearing my lot.

From a monthly bill standpoint I do save some money. Considering that I'm all electric (at + $.10/kw) with only propane for alternative heating, I save a reasonable amount of money - but what I save on my 3 months where wood heat REALLY comes in handy I've *almost* spent in wood.

Winters are mild here in Arkansas, especially lately, so it isn't really a $$ equation for me. I just about break even with monthly cash flow - with the mild winters since I've completed our addition and the cost of the fireplace my timeline for payback on investment is stretching out. Not really a problem as I hope to be in this house for a long time.

BUT.

You just can't back up to a heat pump. When your clothes are wet you can't put them by the exit vent to dry. You can't warm your hands after being outside all day. Christmas time with stockings over your kitchen counters isn't the same. Watching a movie during the winter time at night with the fam, cup of hot tea, and a fire in the fire place = HOME. Getting the kids ready by the fire in the morning and snuggling with a little one by the fire = HOME. Being a white collar worker and having something totally tangible that is a direct result of your efforts = rewarding.

And sitting around in your shorts when it's 35 degrees outside when you are paying for electricity - not gonna happen. And let's not forget that in the country we do have electricity outages when you need it most (ice storms etc.).

Wood heat just FEELS WARMER than the same temperature with a heat pump. Just does.

I have a well insulated house, but when I put in our wood stove I put in an FPX, the big one (44?). That sucker will flat out roast us in our 3,000 feet of house, keep the upstairs rooms reasonably warm, and has no issues keeping heat in our living room with 30' vaulted ceiling.

I shudder at the thought of keeping the house warm on just the heat pumps - but I could. And on principle I'm not going to have the thermostat set at 75 with the heat pump (we'd be lucky if I have them set at 70), but I can get my entire house warmer in the dead of winter by cranking my stoves.

bogydave said:

I save some on energy bills
I save some on gym memberships
I save some on doctor bills.
I save some on psychiatrist bills
so far my wood is not taxed (even some more saved)

All added up, I save some $$ & have fun doing it

Click to expand...

Perfectly stated. Without wood, I'd be using roughly $6500 in oil per year, so I'm sure I'm still saving some money after buying and feeding all of the wood processing "toys". That said, I'd be doing this even if it cost me money. What other excuse do you have to go play in the woods every Saturday, while simultaneously working out your frustrations and getting cred from the wife for doing work? Yep... I still have her fooled.

Yes

I know I am saving money over using the old beat up propane furnace the house came with. More importantly though is the fact that if I didn't burn wood I could never justify owning 3 chainsaws.

Swedishchef said:

I agree, with taxes and delivery fees it works out to be 7.67c/Kwh.

Supercools: the rate is in Canada dollars (which, for once, are worth more than US dollars. LOL). On that bill I paid 7.67c/kwh with taxes and service charges.

Dennis, I agree with you 100% The time spending with the family and teaching the kids work ethic is quite valuable itself. My son is only 2 and he helps me stack wood (and know down my piles). But you also said it: you're retired. My problem right now is trying to get it all done: just built a garage, have a 8 month pregnant wife, a 2 year old and I work 45-50 hours a week. Don't get me wrong, I love heating with wood. It's a disease. But when you don't own any equipment (nor can I afford it) it gets frustrating. Imagine moving 4 cords of wood into a shed with a wheelbarrow alone. That takes time...

I think everyone's answer is situational. In my case, financially it simply does not pay when considering I need to spend $250 for a cord of hardwood, $1500 for my chimney installation and $2200 for my wood stove. I still did it and have no regrets! I love heating with wood. I give myself the challenge to not let the baseboard turn on in the winter.... I was just curious to see who does it for moral satisfaction/personal choice vs who does it for financial gain.

A

Click to expand...

True Chef, that I am retired. Sometimes just plain tired. However, you must also know that I have not always been retired and no doubt went through many of the same trials as you. Stick with it good fellow and it will do you well.

Swedishchef said:

Hey guys... I guess I certainly shook the hornet's nest on this one. LOL.

The one thing you are all forgetting is that my utility bill includes cooking, hot water, clothes dryer, water pump, lights and all other forms of electricity. Not just heat. Everyone compares wood with electricity but nobody takes into consideration that they also have monthly utility bills on top of wood costs. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I love cutting wood and burning wood. I simply wanted to get a glimpse and other's situations regarding heating. I find myself attempting to defend electrical heating which is really not my goal..I just want to compare apples to apples.

Rideau...

If you read the post where I cut/paste my bill, it states that the billing period was for 64 days. Therefore 29.5 Kwh per day.

If you have a dual energy furnace or heat pump, Hydro Quebec encourages you by giving a super low rate at a warmer temperature for electricity. However, once the temperature reaches a particular number (based on geographical areas..helps recude the grid demand) the rate quadruples! My in-laws have this as their furnace is electric/oil. They got the system installed when oil was $0.65 a litre. (15 years ago). HydroQuebec also provided financial incentives to convert to a dual energy system. At -13C the furnace automatically changes to oil from electric. The multiplier is normally 1. I encourage you to read this link about the program if you have time http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/tarif-residentiel.html. My rates will never be 12c/Kwh at the current cost I get charged. My largest bill since I have been in my house (don't forget I supplement my electrical heat with wood) was $309 for 65 days and a total of 3830 Kwh (58.92 Kwh/day which converts to $4.76 a day in electricity) and 8.1c/Kwh total costs.

I can't seem to get that paragraph to non-bold..dunno how it went bold..damn gremlins!

Click to expand...

I don't think you hit Bold but just changed the size of the font. That will cause the bold.

Huntindog1 said:

Has anyone mentioned that cutting wood is a good past time that gets you outdoors and the end results is not only are you healthier but you save money on your heating bills.

I guess I could go buy a membership to the local health club, oh I guess I am saving that money also along with a few doctors visit cost savings.

Click to expand...

Had you read the other posts you would find that many have mentioned it.

Swedishchef said:

Hey guys... I guess I certainly shook the hornet's nest on this one. LOL.

The one thing you are all forgetting is that my utility bill includes cooking, hot water, clothes dryer, water pump, lights and all other forms of electricity. Not just heat. Everyone compares wood with electricity but nobody takes into consideration that they also have monthly utility bills on top of wood costs. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I love cutting wood and burning wood. I simply wanted to get a glimpse and other's situations regarding heating. I find myself attempting to defend electrical heating which is really not my goal..I just want to compare apples to apples.

Rideau...

If you read the post where I cut/paste my bill, it states that the billing period was for 64 days. Therefore 29.5 Kwh per day.

If you have a dual energy furnace or heat pump, Hydro Quebec encourages you by giving a super low rate at a warmer temperature for electricity. However, once the temperature reaches a particular number (based on geographical areas..helps recude the grid demand) the rate quadruples! My in-laws have this as their furnace is electric/oil. They got the system installed when oil was $0.65 a litre. (15 years ago). HydroQuebec also provided financial incentives to convert to a dual energy system. At -13C the furnace automatically changes to oil from electric. The multiplier is normally 1. I encourage you to read this link about the program if you have time http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/tarif-residentiel.html. My rates will never be 12c/Kwh at the current cost I get charged. My largest bill since I have been in my house (don't forget I supplement my electrical heat with wood) was $309 for 65 days and a total of 3830 Kwh (58.92 Kwh/day which converts to $4.76 a day in electricity) and 8.1c/Kwh total costs.

I can't seem to get that paragraph to non-bold..dunno how it went bold..damn gremlins!

Click to expand...

Your point about other electric charges is why people me included said my bills with electric heat were X and now there Y.

In my case without the stove my peak charges were $250/month. That was with all the same electric devices i have with the stove. And that was keeping the tstat between 60-67F. With the stove i can keep it between 65-85 in the whole house. The bedrooms being the colder, how i like it, and thats in the mournings, evenins are lows 70s. So my electric bills with the stove id say averaged $105. They would fluctuate from high 90s to 110ish. probly the difference was the water heater when cold and maybe more fans running to circulate air??

When we bought our house, the gas lease was terminated, the oil burner needed to be rebuilt and the electric heaters, well, they were electrical fire #2. My plan was as follows: 1. Rebuild the oil burner. It provides the domestic HW. 2. Replace the plastic water tank with a good used oil tank. 3. Install wood stove. 4. install wood boiler to only use oil when absolutely needed.

We are still in the planning stages for #4.

Regardless, my house is poorly insulated. The downstairs is concrete block insulated with Vermiculite, and the upstairs is standard stick construction, insulated with fiberglass. Given that all of the windows are original 1972, the estimated cost to heat our house with oil was over $6500. That's almost 1/4 of my yearly "real job" salary. In the winters, i work for a friend that runs a maple syrup business. We tapped 1500 trees then (upping it to 3k this year). I can get all the wood I want free (hence the amount of wood in my yard).

Does heating with wood save me money?

Without a doubt, yes.

Wood burning is a second job for most people, where they are the boss.

I'm going to say yes. Installed insert last winter for roughly $2200. Didn't turn the furnace on all year, didn't spend $2500 on oil.
Wood is at the parents house and a buddys, about 15 miles away. Stop on the way home from work, use the old man's saw, buck up a pickup truck load of ash,split it, and bring it home. Have about 4-5 cords. So far the only expenses have been a set of fireplace tools, fuel/oil/chains for the saw, supercedars, and a chimney cleaning brush.

It was the pellet stove guy that talked me out of pellets and talked me into cord wood. He pulled up the calculator. I gave him how much I pay for propane per gallon, how much I pay for electric per killowatt, how much pellets were per pallet, how much the average cord wood cost, and how much natural gas was. Natural gas isnt available at my house. But natural gas and cord wood was by far the cheapest. Double per unit of heat was pellets. Then double that was propane and double that was electric.

What I know from what I've spent so far. During the coldest months, I spend about $300-$400 a month for propane to heat my house at 70 degrees and we have a 1500 sq feet house (newer house that is very well insulated.) I spent $500 a year ago on the wood. It lasted last year and I'm expecting for that same $500 wood to last this winter too.

It's a huge savings for me. Granted I just put a new wood stove in for $400. I had to buy a log splitter for $1800. Also there's a lot of small nickle and dime costs to burining wood. But I'm sure I'm way ahead to the $200-$400 a month I was spending with propane. I don't think it will be much more than a year to recoup my money invested in the log splitter.

Swedishchef said:

Hey guys

I understand that I have already asked this question in other posts in the past. However time flies by and I find that various aspects change with time when considering the cost of heating with wood.

In my case I heat my home with a bit of wood (on top of electricity). It takes a long time to stack my wood, season it, move it to the shed, etc etc.

I currently live in a 3 year old house. THe basement was spray foamed on the walls and in the rim joists (crown) and I added R14 Roxul on top of that.

My stove is in the basement and I paid $1500 for my chimney (installed) and $2200 for my stove. Wood around here is $250 a cord for hardwood and $175 for softwood (I do not have a woodlot nor do I have a splitter or the heavy equipment such as a tractor / ATV requipred to pull wood) and I normally burn 3+ cords per winter (1.5 or so of hardwood and 1.5 or so of softwood). My sweep gave me a quote of $150 for a cleaning (I can't reach my chimney with a ladder however I do plan on getting a sooteater this year). Therefore, I will NEVER get my money back for the stove and chimney.

Since my electricity costs are only $0.052/Kwh, I have compared the cost of oil VS wood VS electricity in my area with a HEARTH.com cost comparison calculator

36.26 per Million BTU of Heat delivered to home
$3,444.70 per year for normal home for Oil
$14.29 per Million BTU of Heat delivered to home
$1,357.55 per year for normal home for Hardwood
$15.50 per Million BTU of Heat delivered to home
$1,472.50 per year for normal home for Softwood
$15.24 per Million BTU of Heat delivered to home
$1,447.80 per year for normal home for Electric

Another cost calculator says pretty much the same thing: the cost is the same for electricity or wood.
http://www.efficiencymaine.com/pace/compare-heating-options

What about you guys?

Thanks

Andrew

Click to expand...

Buying a retail stove / liner + 'professional' install + the going market rate on cordwood = probably not much money to be saved, especially compared to natural gas - as the bottom is falling out of NG prices due to all the fracking in the oil shale regions.

Craigslist stove + DIY install + scrounge/'free' wood cutting I think there is a modest amount of money to be saved.

At 4 dollars a gallon for oil , I'm looking at 1000 dollars for one fill, I'll bet I would use at least two tanks over a winter, keeping the farm house as warm as we do with wood. Burning wood I only used a half tank of oil, 125 gallons over a years time. My wood comes right from my property, free except for labor and equipment to harvest it. My stihl is 10 years old, my tractor 12, so a lot of my stuff has already paid for itself. My wood is never going to cost more as oil will just keep going up. Cooking with my wood cook stove saves me from running an electric oven as well, plus heats the house too. Last year I burned about 6 cords. In my soul I'm saving money, a peace of mind, having the ability to be independent and take care of ourselves. Plus I figure harvesting wood gives me good exercise , keeping my health, so it's a win-win situation. Saves me any doctor bills. I think anyone on here who loves to burn wood doesn't really fret over it being cheaper, it's just in ones blood so to speak that it makes you feel good looking at your work, sitting down by the fire and warming your soul, especially if the power just went out!

Swedishchef said:

I don't have that much room on my lot for stacking wood...see pic.

Click to expand...

I dunno... looks to me like that front yard almost an acre itself, although I understand why you don't want to stack wood right out front. How big is the back yard? I have 7 cords stacked with room to spare in an area only 35' x 35', in 4' wide rows about 6' apart, each 24' to 32' long.

Looks like some already stacked to the left of that camper. perfect place for one.

u gotta take the dive and buy the equipment to cut wood...nothing fancy..beater truck chainsaw and splitting maul...cut it urself and u will save thousands a year....but truly if cost is all u worried about maybe wood heat is not for u.....i started burning wood to save money..no if i had to buy every drop of my wood i still would heat with wood...different kind of heat and stay as warm as u want..but im with bogydave...no gym membership..no doctor bills...never bored...and it keeps me occupied so im not out spending money on something else. It also is teaching my 11 year old son a real good life lesson and responsibility.

bogydave said:

I save some on energy bills
I save some on gym memberships
I save some on doctor bills.
I save some on psychiatrist bills
so far my wood is not taxed (even some more saved)

All added up, I save some $$ & have fun doing it

Click to expand...

I could not agree with the above statements more! Do I save $$ yes I do. At $3.70 a gallon for oil right now I believe that burning wood will make the oil last longer. I fortunately was able to buy oil over the summer for $3.19 a gallon so I am ahead of the game in two respects now. Good luck to everyone this winter!!

Jack Straw said:

I burn wood just so I can be a member of this site!

Click to expand...

Amen brother!!