Two Stove Question
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Get an electrician in there to fix the darn thermostats. It is unrealistic to impose this on your family while you are away. With a second stove things may be easier, but that depends on her comfort level. Running two stoves can be a lot of work when it gets cold. The problem with the current setup is that the 30NC is located to the far side of the floorplan. The house needs a wood furnace or a more centrally located large heater for core heating.
I'll bet.
My wife runs the stove the same way 2-3 splits at a time. That is ok, the person running the stove should work within their comfort zone. Same thing with driving. My wife won't drive on the freeway. That's ok, I'd rather she and the people around her are safe.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
I can see why it's hard to get heat distributed. Same thing I had at my MIL's; Stove room not central to the floor plan. No hallway to the other rooms, only doorways to move the heat through? Do you have a choice where to put the other stove, or do you have to put it in the family room?
The IS grate has slightly narrower slats than the other models for some reason, so it's harder to work the ash through. I think widening them a hair would be pretty easy.
You'd think so, based on firebox size. I've never run those stoves to compare, so I'm just going on the EPA numbers, which seem give a good relative comparison on the stoves I have run.
Grated ash system cuts the work a bit...
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
How was I not paged for this thread?
I have been running two stoves 24/7 in an old house for six years. It was damn near killing me the first several years, as my old stoves would easily chew through three large (3 cu.ft.) loads per day, and the 10+ cords I was processing and loading some years still left me coming up short. There were times of those years where I felt that heating with wood was taking up almost 100% of my free time, between tree felling, hauling, processing, stacking, moving, loading, and cleaning stoves.
I eventually resigned myself to a plan of just keeping the stoves going at a low baseline rate, which fit my work schedule and processing abilities, and using my central heating (oil-fired boiler) to pick up the slack. Unfortunately, I found my old stoves just weren't up to the task of achieving the long burn times I needed to make this plan work.
Enter Blaze King. After reading about folks getting 40+ hour burn times in the King, and even 30+ hour burn times in the smaller Princess and 30 models, I knew this was the answer. I moved my three old stoves out, and replaced them with a pair of Blaze King Ashford 30's. I found the thermostat settings that give me perfectly consistent 12 and 24 hour burn times (I burn mostly the same species of wood), and I just run them there.
Now I'm moving only three loads of wood per day, instead of six, and life is much happier. To our surprise, our house is actually WARMER, and we're burning LESS oil, while also burning less wood. A large part of this is because the convective design of the Blaze King wastes a lot less heat into the stonework of my house, than the old stoves which were mostly radiant heaters. But it is also thanks to the super consistent heat output I get from the BK's, as I used to have to overheat the joint with large loads of wood (and less control over output rate), to get the long burn times required to keep the house warm for morning or return from work time.
My current burn rate is about a cord every 20 days, which is much better than the 7 - 10 days per cord I was pushing thru my old Jotuls. I have a system down where it's not too bad to keep up with it, but everyone's level of interest and stamina is different, so I can't predict how difficult you'll find the work.
Smoked
Feeling the Heat
I run 2 sometimes. It's a lot of work but it helps keep me healthy....steps involved. My wife is intimidated by big loads so she does the smaller splits with lighter loads. It works though because she gets the coals burned down for me. My insulation sucks too. The wind eats my house up. My top floor is cantilevered a little and the overhangs have zip for insulation. For now, it is easier to gather wood than try to address that mess.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
JA600L
Minister of Fire
I would guess that heat output would be greater in the Ideal Steel. Same size firebox roughly as the NC30. The Ideal Steel has the same secondary burn capability plus everything runs through the cat. The ash pan grate slots are a little narrow on the early (mine) ideal steels. The later ones are wider. Either way it's an easy fix with a grinder.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
How was I not paged for this thread?
It clearly said "TWO STOVE" in the subject, and then "Blaze King" in the body; I figured you had been auto-notified, but were busy with something else, such as perhaps arranging an exorcism for your house so that you could insulate it.
Well I've mentioned installing a ceiling mounted duct system to help circulate the hot air for a while now so I may actually do it when I return. Where would the ideal location be for a wood stove?
I could put the second stove anywhere I want I guess. If I get another stove I want to go ahead with my plan to install ceiling duct work. I was thinking about putting in a floor grate in the living room ceiling so the heat can rise all the way up to the second floor. I'll attach duct work to the grate on the second floor and run the duct throughout the second floor. The IS/BK will heat the 1st floor aided by additional duct work.
How was I not paged for this thread?
I have been running two stoves 24/7 in an old house for six years. It was damn near killing me the first several years, as my old stoves would easily chew through three large (3 cu.ft.) loads per day, and the 10+ cords I was processing and loading some years still left me coming up short. There were times of those years where I felt that heating with wood was taking up almost 100% of my free time, between tree felling, hauling, processing, stacking, moving, loading, and cleaning stoves.
I eventually resigned myself to a plan of just keeping the stoves going at a low baseline rate, which fit my work schedule and processing abilities, and using my central heating (oil-fired boiler) to pick up the slack. Unfortunately, I found my old stoves just weren't up to the task of achieving the long burn times I needed to make this plan work.
Enter Blaze King. After reading about folks getting 40+ hour burn times in the King, and even 30+ hour burn times in the smaller Princess and 30 models, I knew this was the answer. I moved my three old stoves out, and replaced them with a pair of Blaze King Ashford 30's. I found the thermostat settings that give me perfectly consistent 12 and 24 hour burn times (I burn mostly the same species of wood), and I just run them there.
Now I'm moving only three loads of wood per day, instead of six, and life is much happier. To our surprise, our house is actually WARMER, and we're burning LESS oil, while also burning less wood. A large part of this is because the convective design of the Blaze King wastes a lot less heat into the stonework of my house, than the old stoves which were mostly radiant heaters. But it is also thanks to the super consistent heat output I get from the BK's, as I used to have to overheat the joint with large loads of wood (and less control over output rate), to get the long burn times required to keep the house warm for morning or return from work time.
My current burn rate is about a cord every 20 days, which is much better than the 7 - 10 days per cord I was pushing thru my old Jotuls. I have a system down where it's not too bad to keep up with it, but everyone's level of interest and stamina is different, so I can't predict how difficult you'll find the work.
A cord every 20 days doesn't seem too bad.
Do you guys think I need a wood furnace instead? I could put the furnace in my partial basement. There used to be some kind of central heating system because I can see old duct work in the crawl space and there's vents on the first floor. I don't know anything about wood furnaces so time to educate myself.
Englander 28 furnace vs BK King vs IS? What would you guys do in my situation?
Englander 28 furnace vs BK King vs IS? What would you guys do in my situation?
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If you're gonna try circulating wood-heated air, go with a furnace that is designed and wired for such a purpose. Don't try to make a radiant heater like the IS do something it was never intended to do. That Englander 28 will burn a little more wood as it doesn't appear to have any secondary combustion, but that also means it's more amendable to the "toss a few sticks in at a time" method and for the price difference you should be able to buy 10 extra cords and still be money ahead vs the King.
Look into Drolet wood furnaces as well.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Two comments on circulating air:
1. Most find it unnecessary, and I'm quite certain you would, as well. The reason for this is the constant low-BTU output of a stove behaves much differently than the cyclical high-BTU output of a central heating system. You will find that just keeping that stove churning on wood all day every day keeps the house surprisingly even, much more so than you would experience if your furnace had a register in only one room of the house. I'd highly encourage you to wait on installing duct work, until you have a chance to experience this, yourself.
2. There are losses in ductwork. These are acceptable, when the air you are putting into the duct is 130F, coming off of a central furnace. Unfortunately, when you're sucking 75 - 78F air into a duct and running it thru a cold attic or basement, the 70F (or less) air blowing out the far end is going to feel cold on the occupants of that room. We have seen many here try it, and the only success stories seem to be those whose ducts are entirely installed within the heated envelope of the house, never an attic or basement run.
1. Most find it unnecessary, and I'm quite certain you would, as well. The reason for this is the constant low-BTU output of a stove behaves much differently than the cyclical high-BTU output of a central heating system. You will find that just keeping that stove churning on wood all day every day keeps the house surprisingly even, much more so than you would experience if your furnace had a register in only one room of the house. I'd highly encourage you to wait on installing duct work, until you have a chance to experience this, yourself.
2. There are losses in ductwork. These are acceptable, when the air you are putting into the duct is 130F, coming off of a central furnace. Unfortunately, when you're sucking 75 - 78F air into a duct and running it thru a cold attic or basement, the 70F (or less) air blowing out the far end is going to feel cold on the occupants of that room. We have seen many here try it, and the only success stories seem to be those whose ducts are entirely installed within the heated envelope of the house, never an attic or basement run.
Yeah a wood furnace seems to be the best option for my layout/requirements. I'm pretty interested in the Drolet HeatPro, especially since it has multiple heat outlets. That should enable me to run multiple outlets to various floor vents and give me even heat distribution. Then the heat should naturally rise and warm the second floor. I wish I thought about this crap before buying the NC30.
1. I don't know, I haven't found this to be the case in my house. The layout of my house and the placement of the stove is really problematic. It will get warm in one room with the door closed. With the door open the living room becomes pretty chilly and the temp in the rest of the house remains frigid. Really improving the insulation of the house will most likely help but I don't think it will solve all the issues.
2. The 75 - 78F air is from a wood stove right?
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Since you have existing ductwork, maybe consider a furnace. There may not be a flue for one if the old furnace was electric, which could add a lot to the complexity and price if true.
If you have existing electric baseboards in every room, consider solar panels. Solar can be "free" up front, and they tack their lease payment onto your (possibly zero) electric bill (good if you are going to be there short term), or you can buy the system and have free electricity right away (good if you will be there 10 years+). In your case it might be hard to put enough panels on the roof to keep up with a big cold leaky house full of electric heaters anyway. Any of the above could possibly require a new roof.
I hate to sound like a window salesman, but the lowest hanging fruit for you is probably replacement windows, if the old ones are single-pane. Cheaper and easier than any of the above, and might enable the NC30 to keep up by itself. Do what exterior wall and attic insulation you can after that, and you will have much different heating requirements than you do today.
If you have existing electric baseboards in every room, consider solar panels. Solar can be "free" up front, and they tack their lease payment onto your (possibly zero) electric bill (good if you are going to be there short term), or you can buy the system and have free electricity right away (good if you will be there 10 years+). In your case it might be hard to put enough panels on the roof to keep up with a big cold leaky house full of electric heaters anyway. Any of the above could possibly require a new roof.
I hate to sound like a window salesman, but the lowest hanging fruit for you is probably replacement windows, if the old ones are single-pane. Cheaper and easier than any of the above, and might enable the NC30 to keep up by itself. Do what exterior wall and attic insulation you can after that, and you will have much different heating requirements than you do today.
Dang it, you guys always do this to me. It starts to seem like I have a clear direction in which to proceed then someone else posts something that makes me reevaluate.
There used to be some kind of furnace in the partial basement hence some of the remaining square duct work in the crawlspace. There's some kind of crumbling brick work in the basement as well which looks to have been the flue.
Solar panels are a no go because of my roof angle.
So replacement windows and insulate as much as I can, check. I'll tackle that when I return. I have about 5 - 6 months to research the proper way to insulate a home. It will be a major undertaking because I want to redo the attic (insulation is super old and doesn't look to be of sufficient depth), have to pry up flooring in the 3rd floor rooms to place insulation batts, place a vapor barrier on my crawlspace floor (there's just dirt right now), insulate crawlspace and basement walls, seal crawlspace vents and basement windows, seal basement and crawlspace things (whatever you call the space between the foundation and the side structure beams), etc. Thinking about all that makes me want to just stay here lol.
I was thinking about trying to insulate exterior walls internally with rigid insulating boards or build wooden slats to place insulation rolls but I've read some conflicting advice. Seems like insulating the attic is more beneficial along with basement and crawlspace. Which would attempt to insulate the exterior walls as well?
tcassavaugh
Minister of Fire
i burn about 2.5-3 cord when i mostly run the jotul. when i engage the summit alot, probably around 4. i keep my furnace turned down to about 60 so it comes on if the jotul quits or gets too low. been so long since i've bought any firewood i don't really know for sure. i have a shed that holds about 7 cord and i use one side or most of a side during a burning season. as mentioned earlier, i've tried burning the summit only (its in the basement) and it keeps the house around 70 degrees and the basement about 80. floors are nice and toasty. i live on the western shore, south of chesapeake beach which is right across from the choptank river so winters are pretty mild. what area of the eastern shore are you located, when not deployed.
Hope you get back soon. keep your head down....stay safe
4 cords total? That's not bad at all. I was looking at homes in Chesapeake Beach before I decided on my insanely cold house. I'm about 15 minutes from the Bay Bridge.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
1. Yeah, I meant more with the second stove. Your layout is like a quarter-scale version of my own layout, and we run one stove at either end of a 7000 sq ft house. Like yours, our heat loss is relatively high for our square footage, due to old windows and poor insulation. A well insulated house can do much better with a single stove.
2. 75 - 78F air coming out of the room with the stove. Hopefully not hotter than that, which would be intolerable to me.
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Oh I see what you're saying now. So circulating heat from a wood stove through duct work isn't going to be the same as it would be with a furnace. You're the guy with the huge mansion right? I think I remember seeing a pic of your house.
So I guess my options are buying an IS/BK and placing it either in the family room or dining room. I was thinking about knocking down the non-load bearing wall that separates my family room from the dining room to make it more of an open floor plan. That seems like it would help with heat distribution as well. I would still have to run stove pipe or whatever it's called from the stove, through the exterior wall, then up the side of the house. So stove (from $2k to $4k) plus stove pipe/chimney pipe (not sure, maybe another $1k to $2k). Total of $3k to $6k.
If I do the wood furnace it would be: furnace (anywhere from about 1k to 5 or 6k), duct work (no idea), chimney.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
My house is long and disjointed, like yours, but by no means a mansion! There are several members here heating larger houses (a few over 10,000 sq ft), but unlike my old place, they're newer and better insulated. I may have one of the highest heat loads.
Locate the stove as centrally as possible, close to where the family spends the most time. This should be a large stove. The Ideal Steel would be a good candidate or a large Blaze King or a big Buck. If at all possible run the chimney straight up through the house. It can be boxed in (chased) on the second floor to hide it. A straight up interior chimney is going to perform better, run cleaner and won't detract from the looks of the house. It's generally less expensive too.
I can appreciate that this is hard when you are away. For now, enable a backup system for times you or your wife are sick or away. If the house gets too cold it can take a very long time to bring it back up to temperature. A duct system may help, but it is still based on solo wood heating. That may not be realistic unless you can be there 24/7 t run it. For now, electric baseboard thermostats are inexpensive and will keep the core from getting too cold.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Yes, it's a mcmansion, so named because it was built by a Scottish mason named Macdonald.
Opening things up will sure help.
If at all possible, I would take the connector pipe/chimney pipe straight up through the house. It will be cheaper, stay cleaner (safer) and will function much better since stack temp will stay higher.
EDIT: Looks like begreen scooped me once again.
I think I have the right guy. Your house is extremely long I believe. So, if you can heat that sucker with two stoves, I should have no problem. Hopefully
So you would go with another stove vs a furnace in the basement? Or what about a wood furnace where I would place the second stove? I could run the duct work from the furnace straight up to the ceiling. Actually that would be an eye sore.
Thankfully MD's having a really mild winter this year.
Ashful also runs an oil boiler for baseline heat. In cold weather the stoves are sometimes supplemental.
It's hard to give you the best advice from 3000 miles away. A wood/gas or oil combo furnace might be a good solution, but there is no way I can tell remotely what it would take to duct it for best heating or most cost effective results. That's something that needs eyes on site for. Other things to consider with a furnace are convenience, is there a basement entrance for bringing in wood? How would it be safely vented? I am not a big fan of heating from the basement with a wood stove. Sometimes it works out, but often there is a lot of heat loss or a large imbalance in temperature. If the basement is uninsulated the heat loss will be significant.
It's hard to give you the best advice from 3000 miles away. A wood/gas or oil combo furnace might be a good solution, but there is no way I can tell remotely what it would take to duct it for best heating or most cost effective results. That's something that needs eyes on site for. Other things to consider with a furnace are convenience, is there a basement entrance for bringing in wood? How would it be safely vented? I am not a big fan of heating from the basement with a wood stove. Sometimes it works out, but often there is a lot of heat loss or a large imbalance in temperature. If the basement is uninsulated the heat loss will be significant.
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