RIP LED #1

We switched most of our CFL's and remaining incandescent bulbs to LED in 2013 prior to our decision to install the solar PV. Purpose, along with other conservation measures, was to reduce household kWh usage as much as we reasonably colud before moving to solar.

Two of the more than 50 bulbs replaced failed nearly right away (back in 2013). Of the others, one failed about a month ago. The rest continue to shine brightly as intended. Reminds me of the early CFL's and some of the later ones that failed prematurely while others lasted for years and continued to work well when we switched to LED. Also reminded of incandescent bulbs that quickly burned out.

The one that failed a month ago was an A19 in a ceiling can light fixture, not exactly a recommended thing to do because of trapped heat. We have others in can light fixtures and have experienced no problems. So far the LED bulbs have performed more reliably than other bulbs, and they are brighter, cooler operating, and save lots of electricity. At current prices of less than $2/bulb, LEDs win on all counts in my opinion.

They pushed compact cfl's saying those last x amount of times longer, i hated them! Double the price, slow to turn bright and they didnt last much longer.
Now these led's, i like them better then cfl's and if they save me electric im happy with that. So far i havnt had one fail since ive been in this house in 1-1/2 years.
Now they make those energy efficient incandescent bulbs too.
Ive prolly spent much more in bulbs over the last few years switching over then they can ever save me!

cableman said:

Ive prolly spent much more in bulbs over the last few years switching over then they can ever save me!

Click to expand...

Me too. And my wife and I really like the light, instant on, works in the cold of winter, and does use less electricity, about 1/2 of that used by the CFLs. And the cost per bulb is less than that greasy triple patty, cheese and bacon loaded, heart attack in a gmo floured pasty bun available at numerous joints in the area.

When buying LED lights you get what you pay for, make sure the actual LEDs is either a CREE or epistar. Those are the 2 best LED you can buy and have been in the market since LEDs started to take off . If the package doesnt boast about having cree or epistar don't buy with expectations of it lasting very long. I'm pretty sure Phillips uses cree but not sure of many other brands. Some advertise CREE LEDs but are not the real thing but same technology. Do your research and you'll see there is a big difference between quality. Also CREE is one of the only USA manufactures of LEDs.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Chas0218 said:

When buying LED lights you get what you pay for, make sure the actual LEDs is either a CREE or epistar. Those are the 2 best LED you can buy and have been in the market since LEDs started to take off . If the package doesnt boast about having cree or epistar don't buy with expectations of it lasting very long. I'm pretty sure Phillips uses cree but not sure of many other brands. Some advertise CREE LEDs but are not the real thing but same technology. Do your research and you'll see there is a big difference between quality. Also CREE is one of the only USA manufactures of LEDs.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

The current driver is just as important. Those can be made in many places and it could be or not be name brand even if the emitter is.

If I had a failure, I'd just take it back to Lowes or HD and ask for a replacement. See what they say. I spend a ton of money in those places and they can be quite good about keeping you happy if you are a good customer.

sportbikerider78 said:

The current driver is just as important. Those can be made in many places and it could be or not be name brand even if the emitter is.

If I had a failure, I'd just take it back to Lowes or HD and ask for a replacement. See what they say. I spend a ton of money in those places and they can be quite good about keeping you happy if you are a good customer.

Click to expand...

If it was bought at HD or Lowes and you used a credit card they can do a reverse look up.

Just replaced an led- 2 years Philips it replaced a fl that lasted 1 year, that replaced an incandescent that was in for more than 5 years. And that was a 79 cent bulb. so tell me how I am saving money.

As with all new technology, early adopters end up as part of the Beta testing group. Over time the good manufacturers improve, the bad ones usually go out of business. I knew this when I replaced all the CFLs with LEDs as soon as the utility subsidy made them cheap, expected to lose a few.

This cycle was astonished short for LED bulbs. You can directly thank government regulation for making this happen.

Personally, I think LED bulbs are wonderful. We'll look back at incandescents in the same way we look at radios with tubes, and more recently, TV's with tubes.

You can also thank govt regulation for the billions of FCL's that are hitting the landfills...filled with mercury. They made them cheap with subsidy. Almost gave them out for free in some states.

What is the environmental impact of manufacturing all of those and then people tossing them because they suck compared to LED's? I have about 50 of them in a box. I'm more environmentally conscious than most...and will take them to a recycling center.
How much sooner would LED technology developed if the gap in the market between filament style and LED had been left wide open and not temporarily filled with the FCL?
When one technology is funded above all else, it hurts other competing technologies.

I built a home LED bulb myself for <$5 10 years ago with 300lumen output. The LEDs got better and cheaper...so did the drivers. Lots of engineers working very hard across industries.

Subsidy, i'm sure played a role in developing a cheaper home bulb...but that is part of the industry, not the entire industry.

I had a couple that failed right after one another in a garage door opener. They were Cree and were quite expensive. Current one seems to be holding. Also had one fail in a bathroom. Same Cree. Early adopters pay, unless they can get others to pay. Can't even brag anymore, since more widespread. Did they outlaw cfl's yet?

I used to brag about my led Christmas lights, since that was another thing that wasn't cost effective. They've been pretty good.

How about those traffic lights with the multiple leds where you can see x% inoperable?

Got these FEIT's in Feb of 2015 for $5/bulb. 20 yrs to go.

sportbikerider78 said:

You can also thank govt regulation for the billions of FCL's that are hitting the landfills...filled with mercury. They made them cheap with subsidy. Almost gave them out for free in some states.

What is the environmental impact of manufacturing all of those and then people tossing them because they suck compared to LED's? I have about 50 of them in a box. I'm more environmentally conscious than most...and will take them to a recycling center.
How much sooner would LED technology developed if the gap in the market between filament style and LED had been left wide open and not temporarily filled with the FCL?
When one technology is funded above all else, it hurts other competing technologies.

I built a home LED bulb myself for <$5 10 years ago with 300lumen output. The LEDs got better and cheaper...so did the drivers. Lots of engineers working very hard across industries.

Subsidy, i'm sure played a role in developing a cheaper home bulb...but that is part of the industry, not the entire industry.

Click to expand...

There are certainly a lot of misses in regulation, there is no arguing that.

That said, have you researched how much less mercury rich coal was burned to power the CFLs compared to the incandescents they replaced for that gap period between incandescents and LEDs?

I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are about what other forces are available to counter rampant greed and corruption? If your answer is anything related to "enlightened self interest," I'm going to stop taking you seriously. The financial crisis of 2008-2009 put that theory to rest for good, not to mention VW emissions fraud, Apple sweat shop labor, Deepwater Horizon, Love Canal, the burning rivers of America in the 70s, Madoff, leaded gasoline, executive compensation. These are just the examples that jumped immediately to mind, there are endless examples.

traffic led lights- some are so bright that i can't see where i am turning the corner or what is on coming traffic wise - too much glare , another downside here is since they do not emit much heat they get iced up and then of course you have no idea what is what.

ED 3000 said:

There are certainly a lot of misses in regulation, there is no arguing that.

That said, have you researched how much less mercury rich coal was burned to power the CFLs compared to the incandescents they replaced for that gap period between incandescents and LEDs?

I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are about what other forces are available to counter rampant greed and corruption? If your answer is anything related to "enlightened self interest," I'm going to stop taking you seriously. The financial crisis of 2008-2009 put that theory to rest for good, not to mention VW emissions fraud, Apple sweat shop labor, Deepwater Horizon, Love Canal, the burning rivers of America in the 70s, Madoff, leaded gasoline, executive compensation. These are just the examples that jumped immediately to mind, there are endless examples.

Click to expand...

As to greed - that is timeless been going on since Adam and Eve. Plenty of new Coal tech that delets alot of the bad areas. Madof is nothing compared to our own Govt. ( example SS) So you want me to power my vehicle with Electric- produced by coal plants primarily because the greed of the utilities means they do not want to shell out on repairing infastructure. Such as the dozens of damns with small hydro outputs that they are unwilling to upgrade or as here refuse to buy power generated from methane gas at various landfills locally ( their excuse is the power is too dirty- they obviously haven't looked at what they are suppling lately) and on and on. 2 sides to every story. Or perhaps you enjoy the 100 % increase in your grocery bill due to the mass amount of crop land devoted to producing corn to be converted to ethanol( which costs more than it saves ) not to mention the subsidies paid for doing so ( more Greed) and that most ethanol and bio productions plants for power are not profitable with out the subsidies.

blades said:

As to greed - that is timeless been going on since Adam and Eve. Plenty of new Coal tech that delets alot of the bad areas. Madof is nothing compared to our own Govt. ( example SS) So you want me to power my vehicle with Electric- produced by coal plants primarily because the greed of the utilities means they do not want to shell out on repairing infastructure. Such as the dozens of damns with small hydro outputs that they are unwilling to upgrade or as here refuse to buy power generated from methane gas at various landfills locally ( their excuse is the power is too dirty- they obviously haven't looked at what they are suppling lately) and on and on. 2 sides to every story. Or perhaps you enjoy the 100 % increase in your grocery bill due to the mass amount of crop land devoted to producing corn to be converted to ethanol( which costs more than it saves ) not to mention the subsidies paid for doing so ( more Greed) and that most ethanol and bio productions plants for power are not profitable with out the subsidies.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with what you are saying, the private sector does not have a monopoly on greed and corruption, and govt has only gotten worse since citizens united. What I am asking for is your ideas for a better alternative.

I'd personally start with a reversal of that corrupting precedent granting corporations rights previously reserved for humans. I'd better stop now as I'm treading dangerously close to the forbidden political zone.

Seriously though, I'm with you that more regulation and govt is not the answer. I'm for the getting the correct amount, and direction, of both, and that seems to be where we are all going completely off the rails these days.

ED 3000 said:

There are certainly a lot of misses in regulation, there is no arguing that.

That said, have you researched how much less mercury rich coal was burned to power the CFLs compared to the incandescents they replaced for that gap period between incandescents and LEDs?

I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are about what other forces are available to counter rampant greed and corruption?

Click to expand...

How much was the net savings if you consider that tons of people did not use them for anywhere near their anticipated life and many disposed of them improperly?

The same lack of individual morality that causes an elected official to take a bribe from a construction company, is the same lack of individual morality that caused the construction company to offer that bribe. This is a human condition and has no greater place in private industry than government bureaucracy.

Your post above appeared while I was posting....
An alternative would be to have true transparency in government where your rights are not trampled and the citizen is wrong until proven right. The little Joe Smith has to have millions to fight in court..and most just give up.
It would also be really nice to see corrupt officials truly punished when they are convicted. Not just resign from office with a hefty pension. Some real justice.

Chas0218 said:

If it was bought at HD or Lowes and you used a credit card they can do a reverse look up.

Click to expand...

I got burned by this since I get new credit card numbers every 6 months or so when my credit card number gets stolen or could have been compromised. New cards, new numbers, mean HD can't look it up.

This sure took a turn to rag on the govt. It's so easy to blame the "govt," but I think it is very important to fully understand that the "govt" responds to industries, one against another, and a whole lot of govt action is action either to protect or to enhance one industry vs another. For 35 years I worked in several areas of heavily regulated industry. So much of industry is focused on govt adopting regulations that keep out competitors, make business more expensive for competitors, etc, all to maximize profits of one against another. In the energy area its coal vs oil vs gas vs wind vs solar vs nuclear vs whatever comes next. Coal, oil, gas and nuclear have been heavily subsidized and continue to receive large subsidies, and they oppose wind and solar and the subsidies they have received, which are miniscule in comparison. This all is capitalism (profit being the only purpose) at its worst or best, depending on your perspective.

As to LEDs, they are great. If a few fail, so what? Every other thing a person buys has failures as well - don't forget the trash US autos made not so many years ago and some still are today. Same for appliances, electronics, etc. I'm happy LEDs came along, and now just waiting to see what comes next in the lighting arena.

I had one LED failure that I was glad the house didn't burn down. There are power electronics in the base of the bulb and something went "zip zap pop" one day and I had a smoking LED bulb. I have switched much of my house over to them except for custom fixtures like my overhead fan with a built in circle line fluorescent. I particularly love them in a cold space like my bulkhead, outdoor lights and my garage. I managed to get a hold of some with distinctly blue coloration but I just use them where I don't care. The LED flood replacements to replace halogens are particularly nice and put out a lot more useful light. Mine is up on a pole that my plow guy used to rattle when pushing the snow banks back, I used to have to go up there about every other year and replace or reset the halogen. Knock on wood its been three years and the LED still works fine.

sportbikerider78 said:

How much was the net savings if you consider that tons of people did not use them for anywhere near their anticipated life and many disposed of them improperly?

The same lack of individual morality that causes an elected official to take a bribe from a construction company, is the same lack of individual morality that caused the construction company to offer that bribe. This is a human condition and has no greater place in private industry than government bureaucracy.

Your post above appeared while I was posting....
An alternative would be to have true transparency in government where your rights are not trampled and the citizen is wrong until proven right. The little Joe Smith has to have millions to fight in court..and most just give up.
It would also be really nice to see corrupt officials truly punished when they are convicted. Not just resign from office with a hefty pension. Some real justice.

Click to expand...

I knew we agreed on this, just needed to work through it.

Some of you may have read an earlier post on a different thread about my new water/energy saving washing machine, chock full of the newest technology, that crapped out after 10 loads, and was totaled by the company because of a bad controller board. I'm pretty sure that discarding it is not a net positive for the environment. I'm going to try to reuse as much of it as possible in different projects around the place. EnergyStar indeed.

couple years back got new washer energysaver low water use ect. been ok but as far as saving water well maybe if you are an office worker, me I get pretty dirty so end up using the heavy duty cycle or bulky one. It is easier on the clothes than my old agitator rig. I always have to pre treat the worst areas mostly with a mix of cleaner degreaser and dish detergant, which isn't anything new had to do that with the old one as well. with the high speed spin it does save on the gas dryer use - anyway so far so good - bad thing is the place I got it from folded there doors- and I had an extended warranty. I almost never buy into this kind of thing but things being what they are now days and the cost of this unit figured better safe than sorry- still got the shaft dag nab it. Can't break even. Gave up on winning years ago.

blades said:

couple years back got new washer energysaver low water use ect. been ok but as far as saving water well maybe if you are an office worker, me I get pretty dirty so end up using the heavy duty cycle or bulky one. It is easier on the clothes than my old agitator rig. I always have to pre treat the worst areas mostly with a mix of cleaner degreaser and dish detergant, which isn't anything new had to do that with the old one as well. with the high speed spin it does save on the gas dryer use - anyway so far so good - bad thing is the place I got it from folded there doors- and I had an extended warranty. I almost never buy into this kind of thing but things being what they are now days and the cost of this unit figured better safe than sorry- still got the shaft dag nab it. Can't break even. Gave up on winning years ago.

Click to expand...

When I was young, I used to get suckered into extended warranties. I think three out of four places went out of business, leaving the coverage stranded. And, of course, the items purchased at those places failed. Good lessons.

Highbeam said:

I got burned by this since I get new credit card numbers every 6 months or so when my credit card number gets stolen or could have been compromised. New cards, new numbers, mean HD can't look it up.

Click to expand...

If you have your old card number and expiration date, they should be able to look up the purchase. I've done it at HD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk