How many of you have heard this...

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 21, 2017

begreen said:
Depends on the wood. Not everything is straight-grained and knot free. Splitting elm or well seasoned madrona rounds with an axe or maul is an exercise in futility.

Elm is best split after it's partially seasoned and with a sharp blade. It's easiest when it's partially seasoned and frozen. Madrone should be split fresh and is not that much trouble. Madrone will pop right open if you have good velocity on your splitting axe. The good thing is both of these woods put out about twice as much heat as easier splitting woods like most of the softwoods so you are rewarded for the extra sweat (only have to split half as much for the same BTU's).

My favorite kinds of wood to split are the twisted, knotty ones. When I see twists and knots all I see is Btu's and warmth. If my blade is sharp I aim right for the center of the knot and one mighty blow is often enough to split it right down the middle. If the wood has sat around too long I might have to split around the knots which just means it will take longer to fully season.

With an old school heavy, dull maul, it's important to have a dense splitting round that's big in diameter but not too tall sitting on firm ground. This is one reason elm splits so much better frozen, the ground is hard. A tall round will hold the round to be split too high for optimum impact. If you have a lot of difficult wood to split (like Elm) it's often worth the extra prep to dig a hole for your splitting round to sit in. This not only provides better ergonomics but gets you down to firmer ground. And do let it dry out some first.

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 21, 2017

Squirrely said:
Yeah, things are totally different down here.
Electricity is tiered and most everyone is well into tier 3 which is 31 cents per kWh.

Wow! Unless you have shade, solar panels are a no-brainer!

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 21, 2017

Squirrely said:
I have one of these little Makitas... and I use it a lot!

It's quiet and smooth and the powerful 14.5 Amp motor has a built in soft start feature that doesn't torque the saw when you pull the trigger.

That looks nice but I'm trying to envision what gauge extension cord I would need to use it 2 miles from the nearest outlet. Only 1% of my chainsaw activity happens near an outlet.

Squirrely · Jul 21, 2017

WoodyIsGoody said:
Wow! Unless you have shade, solar panels are a no-brainer!

We have two roofs for wildfire protection and because the top one is spanish tiles there's no way I'm going to have anyone drilling them to install panel racks. Our year round combined electricity and propane costs average only $85 total per month, so solar would only be a waste of money anyways.

It's always simpler and cheaper to conserve than it is to buy something that compensates for waste.

Greg

begreen · Jul 21, 2017

WoodyIsGoody said:
Elm is best split after it's partially seasoned and with a sharp blade. It's easiest when it's partially seasoned and frozen. Madrone should be split fresh and is not that much trouble. Madrone will pop right open if you have good velocity on your splitting axe. The good thing is both of these woods put out about twice as much heat as easier splitting woods like most of the softwoods so you are rewarded for the extra sweat (only have to split half as much for the same BTU's).

My favorite kinds of wood to split are the twisted, knotty ones. When I see twists and knots all I see is Btu's and warmth. If my blade is sharp I aim right for the center of the knot and one mighty blow is often enough to split it right down the middle. If the wood has sat around too long I might have to split around the knots which just means it will take longer to fully season.

With an old school heavy, dull maul, it's important to have a dense splitting round that's big in diameter but not too tall sitting on firm ground. This is one reason elm splits so much better frozen, the ground is hard. A tall round will hold the round to be split too high for optimum impact. If you have a lot of difficult wood to split (like Elm) it's often worth the extra prep to dig a hole for your splitting round to sit in. This not only provides better ergonomics but gets you down to firmer ground. And do let it dry out some first.

We don't get a whole lot of deep freezes, rarely enough for the ground to harden. I always split on a large round otherwise the earth absorbs too much of the impact. You are right about madrona, split green a sharp axe goes through it like butter. Unfortunately a lot of what I have had for splitting is standing dead and an axe just bounces off of it.

begreen · Jul 21, 2017

The cost of heating is a wash for me, but I burn wood because I like FIRE

It is less convenient and messier, but it uses a local waste resource and provides a better view than television these days.

Highbeam · Jul 21, 2017

Squirrely said:
I have one of these little Makitas... and I use it a lot!
View attachment 198723
It's quiet and smooth and the powerful 14.5 Amp motor has a built in soft start feature that doesn't torque the saw when you pull the trigger.

Greg

That little guy looks just like mine, but littler.

RobbieB · Jul 21, 2017

Here in the central valley of CA we have "no burn" days. Days when the weather conditions hold smoke close to the ground. Guess what? They're all in winter time. Unless you have only wood heat in your house, burning on a "no-burn" day will get you a ticket.

You can't buy a new home here with any kind of solid fuel appliance in it installed by the builder. No EPA, no pellets, no wood of any kind.

I do like the romance of a fire. I like to look at the flames and the glowing embers. But the reality here is wood is evil and frowned upon. Burning is always discouraged and punishable financially on no burn days.

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 21, 2017

Squirrely said:
We have two roofs for wildfire protection and because the top one is spanish tiles there's no way I'm going to have anyone drilling them to install panel racks. Our year round combined electricity and propane costs average only $85 total per month, so solar would only be a waste of money anyways.

It's always simpler and cheaper to conserve than it is to buy something that compensates for waste.

Greg

That's a basic misunderstanding of the utility of solar power. It's not to compensate for waste, it's purpose is to be a more sensible way to produce electricity. Nothing to do with waste.

The fact that you don't consume much electricity just means you don't need many panels to produce all you consume! On the other hand, you said most everyone is into tier III consumption at $0.31/kW so I'm thinking solar panels are a no-brainer. They don't have to go on your roof although that's often the best place.

Squirrely · Jul 24, 2017

WoodyIsGoody said:
That's a basic misunderstanding of the utility of solar power. It's not to compensate for waste, it's purpose is to be a more sensible way to produce electricity. Nothing to do with waste.

The fact that you don't consume much electricity just means you don't need many panels to produce all you consume! On the other hand, you said most everyone is into tier III consumption at $0.31/kW so I'm thinking solar panels are a no-brainer. They don't have to go on your roof although that's often the best place.

You have to use a lot of electricity for solar to be economically feasible. Lots of heavy high tier users have solar here and it's fine for them. The break even point is a $150 per month electric bill. Although smaller systems are cheaper, they take longer to hit the break even point.

Averaging only $45 a month, we use less than one third of the break even point, and don't have any problems with that, because we pay at the lowest tiered rate per kWh. Solar is great for people who have AC's grinding away all summer. We don't, so we don't need it.

Greg

Destructor · Jul 24, 2017

Saturday night I set up my oil lanterns around my wood processing area, sat in a chair with a tall beer and a cigar watching the bats fly around the back yard.

tarzan · Jul 24, 2017

Destructor said:
Saturday night I set up my oil lanterns around my wood processing area, sat in a chair with a tall beer and a cigar watching the bats fly around the back yard.

It's amazing how the smell of fresh cut wood can make beer taste even better!

Squirrely · Jul 24, 2017

Bats are absolutely wonderful creatures...

"A single little brown bat (myotis) can eat up to 1000 mosquitoes in a single hour, and is one of the world's longest-lived mammals for its size, with life spans of almost 40 years. Bats are more closely related to humans and other primates than they are to rodents."

Anything that eats mosquitos is my friend.

Greg

Highbeam · Jul 24, 2017

Squirrely said:
You have to use a lot of electricity for solar to be economically feasible. Lots of heavy high tier users have solar here and it's fine for them. The break even point is a $150 per month electric bill. Although smaller systems are cheaper, they take longer to hit the break even point.

Averaging only $45 a month, we use less than one third of the break even point, and don't have any problems with that, because we pay at the lowest tiered rate per kWh. Solar is great for people who have AC's grinding away all summer. We don't, so we don't need it.

Greg

Not sure if the seemingly arbitrary numbers are accurate but the general point sure is. When your electric bill is in the double digits, solar is hard to financially justify. Our entire power bill including about 50% through the 60 amp circuit to the huge power hog hot tub is usually under 100$.

Woody5506 · Jul 24, 2017

Michael Sean said:
I have to agree here, I hardest thing I ever split with a maul and a splitting wedge was a big sycamore I cut down. It was horrible, but I didn't have a hydraulic splitter at the time so I just beat away on it till I got it all split.

Not to go off on too unrelated of a tangent here but everyone always talks about how awful Elm is to split, and I think it's because they've never tried to split big chunks of sycamore. I almost posted a topic in the Wood Shed section the other day about how I finally just got through a load of sycamore I picked up last November, and that's ONLY because I just bought a splitter.

(Note to self: Never accept sycamore again)

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 24, 2017

Highbeam said:
Not sure if the seemingly arbitrary numbers are accurate but the general point sure is. When your electric bill is in the double digits, solar is hard to financially justify. Our entire power bill including about 50% through the 60 amp circuit to the huge power hog hot tub is usually under 100$.

Not anymore. The price of small solar installs just keeps getting better. With net metering, you come out ahead in many areas of the US. It pays for itself and then some. Of course every install is different and I'm not saying it makes sense in every instance (because it doesn't). But an average monthly power bill of $50-$75 in and of itself doesn't make it a bad decision economically.

If it pays for itself in less than15 years once the time value of money is considered (or interest if a loan is used) then the production past that point is all gravy.

Don't worry if you think you'll sell your house before then, solar panels increase the sales value.

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 24, 2017

Woody5506 said:
Not to go off on too unrelated of a tangent here but everyone always talks about how awful Elm is to split, and I think it's because they've never tried to split big chunks of sycamore.

I've never split sycamore. It sounds like you're saying a big pile of sycamore is like a gym membership without the monthly fees? And right in your backyard? Nice!

Squirrely · Jul 24, 2017

Highbeam said:
Not sure if the seemingly arbitrary numbers are accurate but the general point sure is. When your electric bill is in the double digits, solar is hard to financially justify. Our entire power bill including about 50% through the 60 amp circuit to the huge power hog hot tub is usually under 100$.

We found it's way cheaper and easier to use less electricity than it is to pay thousands of dollars to compensate for using a lot.

I've been an electrician for 39 years... and believe me, I've witnessed positively ~obscene~ amounts of wasted energy! !!!

Greg

Ashful · Jul 24, 2017

Woody5506 said:
Not to go off on too unrelated of a tangent here but everyone always talks about how awful Elm is to split, and I think it's because they've never tried to split big chunks of sycamore. I almost posted a topic in the Wood Shed section the other day about how I finally just got through a load of sycamore I picked up last November, and that's ONLY because I just bought a splitter.

(Note to self: Never accept sycamore again)

I've split both, side by side, albeit with a hydraulic splitter. The elm was FAR more difficult than the sycamore, not even a close comparison, when using hydraulics. I can see how sycamore might be tough with a maul, but it doesn't have nearly the stringy-mess quality of split elm.

This photo of elm has been posted many times by Jags, and it usually goes about the same for me. Our local Sycamore is easy as pine, by comparison to this.

begreen · Jul 24, 2017

Eucalyptus limbs can be the same way. I stopped bothering splitting them.

WoodyIsGoody · Jul 24, 2017

Squirrely said:
We found it's way cheaper and easier to use less electricity than it is to pay thousands of dollars to compensate for using a lot.

I've been an electrician for 39 years... and believe me, I've witnessed positively ~obscene~ amounts of wasted energy!

Greg

I agree. Most Americans waste huge amounts of electricity. But that is a completely separate issue from how your electricity is generated.

In other words, it's possible to conserve electricity and also generate what you do consume using more efficient generation methods (like photovoltaics).

With net metering it's typically possible to make the solar pay for itself and then some. Even if you conserve and have electric bills under $100/month.

begreen · Jul 24, 2017

WoodyIsGoody said:
I agree. Most Americans waste huge amounts of electricity. But that is a completely separate issue from how your electricity is generated.

In other words, it's possible to conserve electricity and also generate what you do consume using more efficient generation methods (like photovoltaics).

With net metering it's typically possible to make the solar pay for itself and then some. Even if you conserve and have electric bills under $100/month.

Yes and with some state plans the payback is fairly short. With solar our summer bill is just the base fee typically. And that includes charging the car.

Woody5506 · Jul 24, 2017

Ashful said:
I've split both, side by side, albeit with a hydraulic splitter. The elm was FAR more difficult than the sycamore, not even a close comparison, when using hydraulics. I can see how it might be tough with a maul, but it doesn't have nearly the stringy-mess quality of split elm.

This photo of elm has been posted many times by Jags, and it usually goes about the same for me. Our local Sycamore is easy as pine, by comparison to this.

View attachment 198773

That's funny, its literally the opposite in my experience. My sycamore looks about that gnarly, and the elms I've taken down and split on my property were done by hand with a little extra sweat but no where near the amount the sycamore required.

Squirrely · Jul 24, 2017

WoodyIsGoody said:
I agree. Most Americans waste huge amounts of electricity. But that is a completely separate issue from how your electricity is generated.

In other words, it's possible to conserve electricity and also generate what you do consume using more efficient generation methods (like photovoltaics).

With net metering it's typically possible to make the solar pay for itself and then some. Even if you conserve and have electric bills under $100/month.

Solar is a shell game with SoCal Edison. I know. I went to their solar installers seminar for electrical contractors. They have a veritable blizzard of restrictions requirements inspections regulations and controls over their solar customers.

According to their Net metering 2.0 scam they "may offer credits" but no actual cash for excess energy produced. And if that isn't bad enough, they also require all solar customers to install smart meters so that their billing is time of day usage with day rates ranging from a low of 28 cents per kWh to a whopping 45 cents per kWh! !!!

They also do not allow you to install a system which is larger than your usage profile. Also, in my opinion, there is something inherently wrong with a system that is dependent on government subsidies to make it economically feasible.

So thanks, but no thanks...
We'll pass on spending thousands of dollars to be under the regulatory thumb of a utility.
We're happy to keep our simple old dumb meter and our any-time-all the-time 16 cents per kWh.

Greg

RobbieB · Jul 24, 2017

I had a 3.6 kW (Sunpower, 11 panels) installed last year. I went top of the line, max efficiency as I have only 1 small roof area that doesn't get extensive shade. Seventeen grand, but 5 grand tax credit. Already upgraded AC to 15 SEER and all lights are now LED. My electric bill should be $200 (for the whole year) now as compared to 1500 before. System should pay for itself in less than 10 years. System was sized to 80% of usage.

Yes, electricity in CA is expensive.

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