How many of you have heard this...

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I split sycamore with a hydraulic splitter last year, and that was even a pain in the a$$. It doesn't want to open up. It basically just absorbs the wedge of the splitter. I can't imagine doing it by hand. I'd much rather spend a day splitting elm, not that that is all that much fun either.


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What I figured out is that you have to use a splitting wedge and a maul on sycamore. Then you start toward the outside of the round and work your way around it. That's the only way I could get it to split. With a hydraulic spliter I found the same to be true. If you can start on the outside of the round and and just work around the edges, it seems to split easier.
 
I'm sure if you do sit and crunch the numbers heating with wood is expensive. But as many have stated they enjoy the work, and there is no better heat. Having a second way to heat your home is always a benefit to losing power and getting cold is not a lot of fun. It is a lifestyle to cut split stack and burn wood if you ask me.
 
If you find someone that pays you send them my way. I would love to get paid to do my hobbies .... I mean work [emoji848]

Move to the northeast where people still heat with fuel oil. Here's market prices. Roughly double the market price to get the cost of a gallon delivered on long island.
Image717327556.jpg

So I definitely get 'paid' to split wood, even now when heating oil is three bucks a gallon. (Our electrical rates are also double the national average because they let the locals try to run a power authority, so not much relief there.)
 
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Move to the northeast where people still heat with fuel oil. Here's market prices. Roughly double the market price to get the cost of a gallon delivered on long island.

View attachment 198839


So I definitely get 'paid' to split wood, even now when heating oil is three bucks a gallon. (Our electrical rates are also double the national average because they let the locals try to run a power authority, so not much relief there.)
As if anyone needed one more reason to not live on Long Island, the armpit of the world. ;hm My current price is $1.66/gallon, as it is in most of the mid-Atlantic region.
 
I have to agree that gathering firewood is something I love to do. It's something about knowing that your the one who is providing heat for your family and not having to depend on anyone else.

The problem I run into is when I'm cutting down a tree for firewood and I see the beautiful grain in the wood. Like last year I cut down a dead black locust for wood but ended up getting it cut into boards.

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Get yourself an Alaskan mill and that sickness will become much worse==c That Locust is very pretty. I have not cut any in a long time but if I run into a large one, I will definitely slab it!!
 
The sycamore Elm conversation is interesting. I have never cut a large elm but the smallish ones around here split very nicely. I had a large sycamore and it was terrible. like others have said, it will not split on the radial lines, the only way is to attack the growth rings and hope you pop off good chunks. The other issue is no reward for all the effort. Elm makes tons of ash and medium heat. Sycamore has short burn times and limited heat. I will pick up Elm if I see it again but sycamore will be there for someone else's misery >>
 
Get yourself an Alaskan mill and that sickness will become much worse==c That Locust is very pretty. I have not cut any in a long time but if I run into a large one, I will definitely slab it!!
That's the reason I don't have a mill. I would never get any firewood wood cut. That and we have a lot of Amish around our county that will saw a log for pretty much nothing.
 
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The sycamore Elm conversation is interesting. I have never cut a large elm but the smallish ones around here split very nicely. I had a large sycamore and it was terrible. like others have said, it will not split on the radial lines, the only way is to attack the growth rings and hope you pop off good chunks. The other issue is no reward for all the effort. Elm makes tons of ash and medium heat. Sycamore has short burn times and limited heat. I will pick up Elm if I see it again but sycamore will be there for someone else's misery >>
I also have an abundance of sycamore on my farm, a lot of standing dead trees that I need to go through this winter and cut down and process. So I already have plenty of work for this winter.
 
This is a cost comparison with prices in Long Island NY. After you put the current prices you need to adjust for efficiency of your stove they use a 63% efficiency and most stoves today are much higher then that,
 
image.jpg image.jpg Sorry was not finished before post. This is a cost comparison with prices in Long Island NY. After you put the current prices you need to adjust for efficiency of your stove they use a 63% efficiency and most stoves today are much higher then that, one is with 75% efficiency the other is my stove with 81% efficiency and wood is much more cost efficient. The only work is stacking 4 cords is about 6 hours.
 
I bucked and split stacked 14 cords this year in about 2 months working 2 hours weekdays and 16 hours weekends. So 210 hours or so but that's 3 years worth of heat and my $ cost was about 1700$. By comparison. I use 800$ of electric heat in one month (coldest months) each year jan-feb costs me ~1600$ in heat. Seems worth it to me

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For the wood I don't scrounge for free out of my yard/neighborhood I pay $20 for every 2 cords to cut in the National Forest that surrounds my cabin. Then there is a small amount for gas/incidentals but I'm always within three miles of home so it doesn't amount to much. It's a lot cheaper than even my mini-split heat pump.

As to the "work" it takes, I usually throw a couple of rifles/shotgun behind the cab for some target practice fun in the National Forest. But the last 6 trips I was having too much fun cutting the wood to take a single shot. Too many fun options and only so many hours!
 
My numbers came from me using $350 natural gas to heat my home and the water for a whole year. I worked the therms back to BTU and I would need ~ 1.5 cords to equal the energy of the gas. 1.5 cords seasoned, split, delivered and stacked would cost about $600.

It costs a lot more to cool this house than heat it. That's why I got solar - :)
 
View attachment 198868 View attachment 198869 Sorry was not finished before post. This is a cost comparison with prices in Long Island NY. After you put the current prices you need to adjust for efficiency of your stove they use a 63% efficiency and most stoves today are much higher then that, one is with 75% efficiency the other is my stove with 81% efficiency and wood is much more cost efficient. The only work is stacking 4 cords is about 6 hours.

Electricity is much higher than that chart thinks (Show me someone on LI who pays .163/kWh, and I'll show you someone who only read the first line of his bill). Realistically it's closer to .23/kWh. They break it down into a bunch of confusing subsections to try to hide the actual kWh cost that you pay.
 
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For the wood I don't scrounge for free out of my yard/neighborhood I pay $20 for every 2 cords to cut in the National Forest that surrounds my cabin. Then there is a small amount for gas/incidentals but I'm always within three miles of home so it doesn't amount to much. It's a lot cheaper than even my mini-split heat pump.

As to the "work" it takes, I usually throw a couple of rifles/shotgun behind the cab for some target practice fun in the National Forest. But the last 6 trips I was having too much fun cutting the wood to take a single shot. Too many fun options and only so many hours!
This is exactly what I do, but, I don't have a national forest that I can go to. I have lots of logging roads, and old logging sites that I scrounge from. Along with the guns, we take out the quad, some buckets and some food and make a day of it. Fill the truck with wood, get the quad off the trailer and head down some side roads. Find some berries, start a fire (as long as there is not a fire ban, like there is now) cook a hot dog or two and continue on for the day.
We make a day of it, get some fresh air, see some beautiful scenery and spend some time with my wife.
Although, this year my wife hasn't been able to make it out with me, so, I just get the wood, do some shooting and enjoy the quiet, alone time.
 
Electricity is much higher than that chart thinks (Show me someone on LI who pays .163/kWh, and I'll show you someone who only read the first line of his bill). Realistically it's closer to .23/kWh. They break it down into a bunch of confusing subsections to try to hide the actual kWh cost that you pay.

Yup, utilities play a good shell game. Their highly complex convoluted billing system is specifically designed to disguise the actrual energy cost, both for regular customers as well as solar users. One of my neighbors who bought a solar system called me to over and he showed me his electric bills. Not only did he pay a monthly bill (somewhat reduced), he wanted to know why Edison billed him an additional $1,600 for his yearly "catch up" bill! !!!

Even after looking at a year of his bills, I still couldn't figure out Edison's crazy solar shell game with all the shuffling around caveats, restrictions, thresholds, time of day usage, regulations, tie in sur charges, and add ons. Even with solar, he was still stuck on Edison's hook, dancing to its bureaucratic regulatory tune.

Our electricity is all simple "dumb meter" Tier one 16 cents per kWh, and with all the other stuff factored into the bill it's 17.3 cents per kWh. Which is still a relatively decent deal. Once above that threshold, everything goes punitively exponential...

...because utilites need people to waste energy.

Greg
 
Our electricity is all simple "dumb meter" Tier one 16 cents per kWh, and with all the other stuff factored into the bill it's 17.3 cents per kWh. Which is still a relatively decent deal. Once above that threshold, everything goes punitively exponential...

...because utilites need people to waste energy.

Greg

When I was a child, electricity in Washington State was $0.02/kWh, no games. The most common heat for a new house was forced air electric (or baseboards if you didn't have the money for the ductwork/furnace). People still burned wood because it was cheaper. There was no cable, Internet or cell phones.

Now a kWh is five times as much, minimum wage is five times higher and people burn wood for "ambience". Go figure.
 
I also have an abundance of sycamore on my farm, a lot of standing dead trees that I need to go through this winter and cut down and process. So I already have plenty of work for this winter.

Sycamore can make some nice live edge slabs though:)
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Your Grand Coulee Dam might account for some of the electricity discount as compared to other states, as it's the largest hydroelectric producer in the US.

As inflation pushes the numerical cost of everything upwards, and the only way I found to protect myself from it is to operate on both sides of the ledger, as a producer as well as a consumer, and to make sure I produce more than I consume. This way the tide of inflation lifts my boat right along with all the others. So regarldes of what the numbers are, the cost paid for consumption always remains in parity with the price charged for production.

...and we choose to burn wood out of necessity. ;)

Greg
 
Your Grand Coulee Dam might account for some of the electricity discount as compared to other states, as it's the largest hydroelectric producer in the US.

Very true. Which is why I shake my head when people want less government and more for-profit corporate control!

And the next wave will be cheap solar electricity. I suppose it will only be cheap if we can work together using public money to create the infrastructure of the 21st century like our predecessors did with the great public works projects like the Grand Coulee Dam and rural electrification. Because you know it'll never be cheap if we let the for profit corporations take it over!
 
And the next wave will be cheap solar electricity.

Solar will be really be dirt cheap when the government and the utilities aren't between buyer and seller parasitically feeding off every transaction. Open competition in a free market is what brings costs down. Just look at the rapid innovation of LED bulbs. Without any third parties parasitically leeching off of the sales, amazing new products are constantly coming to market at lower and lower costs in open competition for our purchasing dollars.

And for an example of exactly the opposite you have healthcare, where government and insurance companies are between buyer and seller. Someone has to pay the skyrocketing costs of feeding the cancerous growth of those bureaucracies. Realize that neither government nor insurance actually produce any healthcare products or render any healthcare services. Their purpose for existence is solely as transfer agents which take money away from one person and give it to another while skimming their take off the top for "expenses".

Greg
 
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Solar will be really be dirt cheap when the government and the utilities aren't between buyer and seller parasitically feeding off every transaction. Open competition in a free market is what brings costs down.

You have some misconceptions about the function of government in regulating utilities. Utilities have a natural monopoly. The government regulates the prices charged to prevent excessive profits at the cost of the rate payer.

The other way the government "interferes" in a "free market" is to prevent collusion between "competitors", ie, price fixing. Pure capitalism without government intervention has never worked. If it did, you could name a society that was the Shangri-law of capitalism excellence. But it doesn't exist and never has. In the same way you can honestly say "pure communism doesn't work", you can say "pure capitalism doesn't work". All successful economic systems in human history have been a harmonious blend of socialism and capitalism. The current pinnacle of economic systems is the blend of capitalism and socialism as found in countries like the US, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Australia, France, England, Germany, New Zealand and Switzerland to name a few.

Just look at the rapid innovation of LED bulbs. Without any third parties parasitically leeching off of the sales, amazing new products are constantly coming to market at lower and lower costs in open competition for our purchasing dollars.

This is funny coming from a conservative. Who do you think funded the R&D that led to the rapid development of the LED as an efficient lighting method?

A Russian inventor working for the Government invented the first LED in 1927. His research was openly distributed in Soviet, German and British scientific journals of the day. However, no practical use was made of the discovery for several decades.

The building blocks of modern LED's are many and varied but include Gallium Arsenide, Gallium Arsenide Phosphide, Silicon Carbide and Gallium Indium Nitride and others, often mixed together in various ratios. The US Department of defense funded the exploration of these materials and their properties many decades before the current LED boom and before there was significant commercial interest.

Back in 1999, the US Department of Energy realized the great benefits that would result from more efficient lighting, from reduced pollution, less demands on national energy infrastructure, less foreign oil dependence, lowered cooling expense in federal buildings, etc. In December of 2000, the US Dept. of Energy began funding research into SSL (solid state lighting). Also known as LED lighting. In 2000 there were no practical LED lights for the residential/office markets. Since that time, US Government funded research has directly resulted in many discoveries that have lowered production costs, improved efficiencies and fostered the rapid spread of LED lighting. In just 17 years this government funded research has resulted in 274 Solid State Lighting patent applications with 117 of them already granted. Companies participating in this government funded research include Cree, Phillips Lighting North America, GE Lighting Solutions, Osram Sylvania, Universal Display Corp., etc. And of course the federal government made available all the non-classified LED technology developed directly by the federal government over the previous 4 decades during research for programs like Star Wars Missile Defense, all of the moon landing and space programs and NASA research, and the list goes on and on.

And you expect me to believe the rapid innovation that has led to cheap and efficient LED lighting is the result of private industry without government intervention? That's far out, man! Where do you come up with this? We would literally be in the LED dark ages with direct DOD research, DOE funding of research and, of course, the Courts and Patent Offices that provide incentive to commercialize the technology. We wouldn't even have an LED lighting boom without the government taking an active role! Is this the behavior you refer to as "leeching off"? The question is, who is "leeching off" who? You have cheap efficient LED's because of the government, not in spite of the government.

This is but one example of how our government was instrumental in the LED boom:
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/patents_factsheet_jan2017.pdf

And for an example of exactly the opposite you have healthcare, where government and insurance companies are between buyer and seller.

No. The Insurance companies are between the buyers and sellers of health care services.
The Government is between the buyers and sellers of insurance. And that's a good thing because before that, they would cancel you if you got too sick! Health insurance is meaningless if they only cover the people who don't need much of it.

Someone has to pay the skyrocketing costs of feeding the cancerous growth of those bureaucracies. Realize that neither government nor insurance actually produce any healthcare products or render any healthcare services. Their purpose for existence is solely as transfer agents which take money away from one person and give it to another while skimming their take off the top for "expenses".

That's true and it's also the reason why the best and most affordable healthcare comes from countries that have single payer healthcare, like France, Canada, etc. The healthcare consumer needs to be protected from companies whose main goal is to collect as much money as they can while paying as few claims as possible. IMO, we need to do away with them like other advanced nations already have. Because, in other developed nations, there are less people in the healthcare food chain collecting your money without contributing to better health.

I think if you would stop listening to the anti-government shills funded by billionaires like the Koch's you would have a more balanced and useful appreciation of how the world actually works. There has never been a perfect government but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative. Simply neutering the government like the billionaires would like to see will make your life (and millions of others) worse while giving the Koch's and others like them free rein to do as they please. That is diametrically opposed to American principles we hold dear. I'm afraid to say, you've been brainwashed.
 
This is discussion going way off the rails for this kind of forum...

....so I'll only say that the reason we each have different views is because we each operate in completely different sectors of the economy.

Greg
 
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