What’s wrong with this picture?

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What is telling you you are overdrafting?

Stove runs away from me and just about starts glowing! Stove gauge temp pegged and even flue temp scary high. This is only when it’s real cold and the stove is full.

Smoke detectors going off from the heat.

I was a deputy chief for a full time fire department before the military. No signs of chimney fire when his is happening. Not that I’m an expert but I’ve been around enough fire to know when things are getting scary.

ESW has me install a flue dampener. Have not needed it yet since I installed it.
 
Stove runs away from me and just about starts glowing! Stove gauge temp pegged and even flue temp scary high. This is only when it’s real cold and the stove is full.

Smoke detectors going off from the heat.

I was a deputy chief for a full time fire department before the military. No signs of chimney fire when his is happening. Not that I’m an expert but I’ve been around enough fire to know when things are getting scary.

ESW has me install a flue dampener. Have not needed it yet since I installed it.
Ok yeah that sounds like either overdraft or a fire. I just wanted to check.
 
Ok yeah that sounds like either overdraft or a fire. I just wanted to check.

No worries. It scared the crap out of me the first time it happened. And then after my teeth stopped sweating from all the heat I laid on the couch for several hours watching and waiting for it to calm down. Seriously thought about putting it out.
 
No worries. It scared the crap out of me the first time it happened. And then after my teeth stopped sweating from all the heat I laid on the couch for several hours watching and waiting for it to calm down. Seriously thought about putting it out.
If it happens again and the damper doesn't bring it down open the door the temps will drop quickly.
 
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Doc C
I realized I had clogged secondary air intakes because the "flame show" above the wood was far less than when the insert was freshly installed. More wood consumption too. I used a toothpick at first, but it didn't do the job. I switched to a worn out .22 caliber bronze brush, it worked far better. Then a total vacuuming of all the air passages. This made the secondary flames come back again. I don't know if this will help with your smoke problems, but it will surely couldn't hurt.
Keep us updated and have a nice day!
 
I just find it strange the dealer allowed that type of installation. It goes against code for any exhaust pipe since it may allow gases to escape the pipe due to the direction of flow of gases. I used to do HVAC while in college and thats what the inspectors looked at.

Ok so this makes me question the supervent double wall installation guidelines. The way it shows to install them it seems as though the "male" crimped end points upwards into the upper section.... Wouldn't this allow creosote to run out therefore not being "dripless"?
 
Ok so this makes me question the supervent double wall installation guidelines. The way it shows to install them it seems as though the "male" crimped end points upwards into the upper section.... Wouldn't this allow creosote to run out therefore not being "dripless"?
Is it that way on the inner wall as well as the outer? Many times the outer will be one way but the inner the other.
 
On the crimped end the walls are seamed together having only one male end that inserts into the female end of the upper pipe which has 2 walls
 
I'm still thinking that his firewood is ultra dry and when it takes off, it takes off. Humor me with that theory, take some time foil and cover half of your air intakes to slow things down a little.
 
I'm still thinking that his firewood is ultra dry and when it takes off, it takes off. Humor me with that theory, take some time foil and cover half of your air intakes to slow things down a little.
But that would not result in low temps
 
But that would not result in low temps
Here's what I've gathered, 1st pic is showing the stove in the 700 deg range, then the pic of the smoke pipe is in the 150 deg range, perhaps the black pipe is dvl and he's using the wrong type of thermometer. The other posts about over firing in the winter have me concerned also, the way he describes it, he is definitely having an issue, not sure if its because of a high draft or again ultra dry fuel, think northern Idaho with soft woods and birch that have been baking in a hot arid environment (drought) for that past few years, a humid day in August out there is like the driest February day where were from.
Also again for humor sake that 90 deg elbow is def single wall, he should have that thermometer mounted there to confirm low flue temps.
 
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Here's what I've gathered, 1st pic is showing the stove in the 700 deg range, then the pic of the smoke pipe is in the 150 deg range, perhaps the black pipe is dvl and he's using the wrong type of thermometer. The other posts about over firing in the winter have me concerned also, the way he describes it, he is definitely having an issue, not sure if its because of a high draft or again ultra dry fuel, think northern Idaho with soft woods and birch that have been baking in a hot arid environment (drought) for that past few years, a humid day in August out there is like the driest February day where were from.
Also again for humor sake that 90 deg elbow is def single wall, he should have that thermometer mounted there to confirm low flue temps.
That is possible he could have a false low temp
 
Here's what I've gathered, 1st pic is showing the stove in the 700 deg range, then the pic of the smoke pipe is in the 150 deg range, perhaps the black pipe is dvl and he's using the wrong type of thermometer. The other posts about over firing in the winter have me concerned also, the way he describes it, he is definitely having an issue, not sure if its because of a high draft or again ultra dry fuel, think northern Idaho with soft woods and birch that have been baking in a hot arid environment (drought) for that past few years, a humid day in August out there is like the driest February day where were from.
Also again for humor sake that 90 deg elbow is def single wall, he should have that thermometer mounted there to confirm low flue temps.

I’m not sure what dvl pipe is but my black pipe is definitely single wall. Installed if myself. I have tried switching the gauges to see if one was bad and no change. And the gauge will go real high when I have a run away fire. Other then that it’s real low.

I originally started out covering half my intake holes with the hvac tape when I installed the stove 3 years ago. It was definitely more smoky and smoldery if that’s a word with them covered.

The holes are the way the factory designed them now.

Maybe this will help....when it’s not real cold....if I have a good fire going going and I shut the stove all the way down my fire goes out. Like from a stove top temp of well into the red on flue thermometer to no flames, no secondaries, nothing. Just a box of smoke. If I crack the door or open the slide a little it explodes and smoke will puff out of the stove.

Now if I leave the slide partly open just a hair, after I get a fire established then, the fire will stay lit and just puff internally in the stove like it’s getting bursts of air. Makes no difference if I have windows or doors open or not.
 
Maybe this will help....when it’s not real cold....if I have a good fire going going and I shut the stove all the way down my fire goes out. Like from a stove top temp of well into the red on flue thermometer to no flames, no secondaries, nothing. Just a box of smoke. If I crack the door or open the slide a little it explodes and smoke will puff out of the stove.

Now if I leave the slide partly open just a hair, after I get a fire established then, the fire will stay lit and just puff internally in the stove like it’s getting bursts of air. Makes no difference if I have windows or doors open or not.

That sounds like an air leak at the thimble. It doesn't take much. Of course a new flue will fix that. Also check the clean-out door for air-tightness and clean-out the tubes as suggested by Alpine1.
 
When is the last time you cleaned your chimney and vent connectors?

Also, I find my temps to be higher toward the center of the stove. I think this is due to the flames racing toward the center vent pipe. Does the thermometer have a lover temp when you place it at a similar location on a flat surface (not angled or vertical)?
 
Interesting dilemma. I am wondering if you have a combination of issues, depending on outside temps. It sounds like you have weak draft in mild weather, but once the stove is pushed hard for heat, draft gets strong. Could be that the chimney doesn't get warm enough in mild weather due to burning smaller fires. Once full loads are being burned then the chimney finally warms up and draft gets strong. Just a theory, see what you think.

If this is the case then an insulated 6" liner should help and with that change there should be a notable drop in creosote accumulation.
 
That sounds like an air leak at the thimble. It doesn't take much. Of course a new flue will fix that. Also check the clean-out door for air-tightness and clean-out the tubes as suggested by Alpine1.

I have where my pipe connects to the masonry sealed with high temp silicone so I think ok with air leaks. Not completely sure but it looks good.

My clean out is weather stripped real good. I could silicone it shut but it would be a pain to get back open when I clean.

Going to work on the air tubes today and also the secondary air inlet on the bottom of the stove.
 
When is the last time you cleaned your chimney and vent connectors?

Also, I find my temps to be higher toward the center of the stove. I think this is due to the flames racing toward the center vent pipe. Does the thermometer have a lover temp when you place it at a similar location on a flat surface (not angled or vertical)?

Full clean out is done twice a year minimum. Usually spring and January. This summer I cleaned everything about 5 maybe 6 Times trying to get the baked on creosote gone before the chimney was relined but they did not have time to get to it yet and I needed to start burning but never the less it is really clean.

I will try to move the theomoter on the stove top today after I work on the air tubes and everything and start a fire. Thanks for the idea.
 
WAYS TO PREVENT AND KEEP UNIT FREE OF CREOSOTE

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/7a/7a908d23-9e1f-4cad-92d5-d0479fb9c085.pdf

1. Burn with the air control fully open for several minutes at numerous intervals throughout each day during the heating season, being careful not to over-fire the unit. This should remove the slight film of creosote that accumulates during low burn periods.
2. Burn the stove with the draft control fully open for approximately 20-30 minutes every time you apply fresh wood. This allows wood to achieve the charcoal stage faster, and burns wood vapors which might otherwise be deposited within the system.
3. BURN ONLY SEASONED WOOD. Avoid burning wet or green wood. Seasoned wood is wood that has been dried for at least one year. 4. A small, hot fire is preferable to a large, smoldering one that can deposit creosote within the system.
5. Establish a routine for fuel, wood burner and firing technique. ****Check daily for creosote buildup until experience shows you how often you need to clean to be safe.***** Keep in mind that the hotter the fire, the less creosote is deposited, and ***weekly cleanings**** may be necessary in milder weather, although monthly cleanings may be enough in the coldest months. Contact your local authority for information on how to handle a chimney fire, and have a clearly understood plan to handle a chimney fire.
 
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Interesting dilemma. I am wondering if you have a combination of issues, depending on outside temps. It sounds like you have weak draft in mild weather, but once the stove is pushed hard for heat, draft gets strong. Could be that the chimney doesn't get warm enough in mild weather due to burning smaller fires. Once full loads are being burned then the chimney finally warms up and draft gets strong. Just a theory, see what you think.

If this is the case then an insulated 6" liner should help and with that change there should be a notable drop in creosote accumulation.

Makes me wonder if you are onto something. Would it be feasible to test the temp coming out of the top of my chimney? Would there a certain temp I need to be looking for?
 
If you are getting buckets of creosote twice a year, maybe you need to increase your cleaning intervals.
 
I have where my pipe connects to the masonry sealed with high temp silicone so I think ok with air leaks. Not completely sure but it looks good.

That's a critical area so it would be better if you were certain it was sealed. All the sealing in the world does no good if there is a 1/4" somewhere that is not sealed.

My clean out is weather stripped real good. I could silicone it shut but it would be a pain to get back open when I clean.

That sounds good enough. Have you checked for leaks around the outside of the cleanout frame? It might be difficult to see if there was mortar missing behind the outer flange.

Going to work on the air tubes today and also the secondary air inlet on the bottom of the stove.

Sounds good. Wood heat is soooo much better when everything is working at peak performance.
 
Makes me wonder if you are onto something. Would it be feasible to test the temp coming out of the top of my chimney? Would there a certain temp I need to be looking for?
Creosote is formed by the condensation of flue gases. I can almost guarantee that the temp at the top of the chimney will be below 250ºF. It wouldn't hurt to check if you have the safe means to do this, but not necessary.
 
Makes me wonder if you are onto something. Would it be feasible to test the temp coming out of the top of my chimney? Would there a certain temp I need to be looking for?
220 minimum. You could also test the sraft
 
Maybe this will help....when it’s not real cold....if I have a good fire going going and I shut the stove all the way down my fire goes out. Like from a stove top temp of well into the red on flue thermometer to no flames, no secondaries, nothing. Just a box of smoke. If I crack the door or open the slide a little it explodes and smoke will puff out of the stove.

Now if I leave the slide partly open just a hair, after I get a fire established then, the fire will stay lit and just puff internally in the stove like it’s getting bursts of air. Makes no difference if I have windows or doors open or not.

Let's start with the fire triangle - heat, oxygen, and fuel. In the right mixture, we get fire. If one gets too out of wack, we lose the fire as combustion can't sustain itself.

Just based on this post of yours and your first, that's what it sounds like to me provided that your wood is dry.

Since you said you're closing down the stove and the fire goes out, where does it sound like its going out of wack? Oxygen-fuel mixture. Temperature variance from outside and inside impacts chimney draft, as has been mentioned already. The larger the variance (colder out, warmer in), the stronger the draft will naturally be. Since you have run hot in the dead of winter before, this phenomenon is easily on display for you. That said, your air control has to be operated with this in mind. The same air control position will let in more air when draft is naturally stronger and less air when draft is weaker. You can have a hot-enough stove with some secondary combustion and still get smokey fires out the top if the air-fuel mixture is out of wack. If there's not enough oxygen coming in, there's not enough to mix with the smoke to burn it off before it goes up the flue and/or condenses on your glass. This can cause the fire to die out as in your last post. Or, in your first post, if there's some combustion going on, but it's still a smokey fire, you can have lower flue gas temperatures despite a warm stove.

As for your gallons of creosote, to me it seems to be a combination of burning practices, particularly on the warmer days, and the masonry chimney. Lining the chimney as you've mentioned and thinking about the above could reduce your production of the meat taste-improving compounds (improving might be a matter of opinion).

EDIT: So to add to this, don't be afraid to use a higher air control setting when it's warmer outside. It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to burn wood faster/less efficient, you're just controlling for the weaker draft. By that I mean with weaker draft, there's a higher air control position needed to let in the same amount of air as the lower position had there been stronger draft. Hope that makes sense, but use the fire as your guide of where to position the air control, not the air control itself.
 
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