Sharpening

Dobish said:

i thought i had it with the 2n1, and I was doing well, but after about 30 minutes of cutting through some big stuff, i was just getting dust again... i will resharpen, clean out the saw and keep trying.... the 2n1 def. worked better than just the round file and the guide. I think i need a stump vice for sharpening too.... that might help.

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Agree with the above, watch some youtube vids if you can. I tighten the chains pretty snug before sharpening, to keep the chain from additional deflections when running the file across them. I mounted a vise on an adjustable hydraulic table that spins so I can mount the saw by the bar, and keep my angles tight. I then marked the table with reference lines to help me hold angles more precisely.

Then pay attention to your lines and keeping the file horizontal and even when you stroke. Once you get good at it, you'll be amazed how well you can sharpen.

Also, I really like the Stihl non-safety yellow chains. They cut well, and hold up longer for me.

Another thing if you get the top plate razor sharp and thin like a knife , it will not last long- that would indicate the file is to low in the gullet. What you are striving for is apx a 30deg edge or slightly less on the cutting edge of the top plate. Its the old how to sharpen an axe vs a knife. I run at about 35deg top edge and 25 deg across. dirt /grime accumulated in the crevices of the bark will dull a chain quickly.

I have a granberg, a timberline, and the Pferd 2 in 1.
I had a dremel style sharpener , I hated it.
the granberg is slow and clunky, I don't use it anymore.
The timberline is slow, but makes a perfect chain, if you get it set right.
I use it when I really rock a chain , or can't get it to cut straight. You have to do the rakers separately, which is a pain .
The 2 in one is the only file I carry in the woods. I give each tooth a couple strokes every other tank of gas .

Dobish said:

i thought i had it with the 2n1, and I was doing well, but after about 30 minutes of cutting through some big stuff, i was just getting dust again... i will resharpen, clean out the saw and keep trying.... the 2n1 def. worked better than just the round file and the guide. I think i need a stump vice for sharpening too.... that might help.

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As others have said your probably doing fine. 30 minutes of actual cutting big stuff isn't too bad.

Faster isn't necessarily better.

EatenByLimestone said:

Depending if you're cutting in the woods or along the side of the road can make a big difference on how long your chain sharpness lasts. Species matters too. A half hour might not be bad. Besides, if you are getting big chips right after you're done sharpening you can't be doing all that bad. You're on the right track.

See if you can find somebody that's good at sharpening to watch what youre doing. I had a guy watch, correct my hand literally a few degrees, and it made a world of difference.

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I do think that a large part of it was the fact that I was cutting pieces that were much bigger than by bar, and it was pretty weathered maple. I was noticing a lot of tension variation in the chain as I was cutting, so i'm sure my temps were all over the place. i have some smaller fresh stuff to cut up, and a few elms to take down this summer... i'll see how I did. it was still better than it had previously been though, so i'll take it!

I keep 4-5 chains when I go out. I have an electric sharpener in my shop and keep files in my field box for a quick touch up. Personally, I like my electric sharpener. I've hand sharpened for years so with bad hands, it's a welcome choice and it wasn't much more than a decent file set. And I file my rakers every other sharpening.

Just picked up another Stihl 2 in 1 in 3/8 Picco for my little trim saws. Our Stihl dealer had a coupon, picked it up for $28.

First time I touched up my chains with it, they've never cut better.

I use a cheap electric wheel grinder and change chains often. This reduces the amount of metal I must remove to bring the chain back to good. Just a touch on each tooth is all you need unless you hit something bad.

No hand filing. It’s not worth my time.

I used to pay for sharpening but not only did I lose the 6-8$ per chain but those shops are not bashful about removing huge amounts from each tooth which wipes out your chain life and you need to buy more chains sooner$$$. Plus the time and inconvenience of delivery and pickup at the chain shop.

Even a pretty good job of sharpening at home is much smarter. It’s easy and fast with even the cheapest electric wheel grinder.

Rakers are a funny thing. I ignore them until a sharp chain doesn’t make a lot of chips and then I grind them down with the grinder way too far. You then have to feed the saw a little carefully.

Highbeam said:

I use a cheap electric wheel grinder and change chains often. This reduces the amount of metal I must remove to bring the chain back to good. Just a touch on each tooth is all you need unless you hit something bad.

No hand filing. It’s not worth my time.

I used to pay for sharpening but not only did I lose the 6-8$ per chain but those shops are not bashful about removing huge amounts from each tooth which wipes out your chain life and you need to buy more chains sooner$$$. Plus the time and inconvenience of delivery and pickup at the chain shop.

Even a pretty good job of sharpening at home is much smarter. It’s easy and fast with even the cheapest electric wheel grinder.

Rakers are a funny thing. I ignore them until a sharp chain doesn’t make a lot of chips and then I grind them down with the grinder way too far. You then have to feed the saw a little carefully.

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I use a Dremel and love it but I do my rakers like you. Grind them when I lose bite. Works well for me.

The stihl chains have those little marks on the tooth and raker that seem to indicate fully worn out. I try and match up the wear so if the tooth is at 50%, so is the raker.

The current saw, a 6400 dolmar, seems to tolerate pretty bad chain tuning by a firewood guy.

With a stump vise and the Stihl, Husky, or Pferd 2 in 1 rig for your specific chain, there's no need to carry many chains in the field or taking chains to the dealer. Hitting a round, dirt, or barbed wire is a PITA without being able to go back to the job cutting.
As all of you, we have tried every device for chain sharpening from slick electric shop sharpeners to held Dremels to free hand round and flat file rigs.
Nothing compares to the ease of the Pferd tools whatever the branding. Follow the witness line on the chain, look at the angles on the spec sheet when you get a new chain, then sharpen in shop or on a stump. Easy and quick. No chance of burning the edges that can destroy a chain's temper with electric grinding.
German engineering again.

Highbeam those marks are to show the proper
angle for the file. Most blades have them not just Stihl.

Jazzberry said:

Highbeam those marks are to show the proper
angle for the file. Most blades have them not just Stihl.

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Oh, I thought they were the max wear mark like tires have.

Nope. They put them towards the rear so they don't disappear early. Parallel that mark with your file or stone and you will nail the angle at least the one the maker likes. I don't always use the suggested angle with my Dremel and I sharpen mine till there aint nothing left lol.

Nope. Never file beyond that witness line. Not enough metal to cut well.
That's one of the reasons chains have them engineered.
Don't be cheap, get a new chain.

Cast Iron said:

Nope. Never file beyond that witness line. Not enough metal to cut well.
That's one of the reasons chains have them engineered.
Don't be cheap, get a new chain.

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The part about don't sharpen past the line may actually be true. Probably thinking about it but then again they want to sell you new chains. I like to decide when its time to get a new chain not the people selling chains. Not all chains have the marks in the same place. Some are marked with lots of meat left.

Cast Iron said:

Nope. Never file beyond that witness line. Not enough metal to cut well.
That's one of the reasons chains have them engineered.
Don't be cheap, get a new chain.

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Sorry have to disagree with you there. If you look at racing chains they have the cutters filed so they are just a little nub like your chain is when you file it to or past the witness mark.Racers spend a lot of time to file/grind a new chain to their liking,to make it cut wood better than a new chain.

Only reason they file them down is to save weight...

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zrock said:

Only reason they file them down is to save weight...

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That again is not true,they are also filed down to reduce friction.Also filed down to create a bigger bite to remove more wood fiber,gullets are opened up to facilitate the removal of the larger than normal chips of wood fiber.
Making a blanket statement about professionals shows a lack of understanding of their craft,

+1 for the 2 in 1.
Admitted newbie here. I hand filed until a got a 2 in 1 last year. Definitely better consistency with sharpening. Seems to cut better longer.
It was worth the money.

I agree about the 2 in 1.. seems yo stay sharper much longer... I keep that one at home and just use a regular saw file out on the trail if I tag a rock of dirt

mtcox1791 said:

+1 for the 2 in 1.
Admitted newbie here. I hand filed until a got a 2 in 1 last year. Definitely better consistency with sharpening. Seems to cut better longer.
It was worth the money.

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Few use chainsaws "racing". Like racing cars using ether for fuel with slick tires.
With the 2in1 rigs made for a specific chain, there 's never a chance of burning the edge, losing the steel's temper.
Tree pros we know do use electric sharpeners in the shops. They also go through many chains in an average work week. We don't.
Rakers NEED to be done with every sharpening though not the usual in-the-field touchups.
Dremels are great for toenails.
Don't forget to replace the 2in1 files when they lose their bite
Nice to hear about the utility of the 2in1' s with a stump vice for field work.

There are some great devices for sharpening in the field, for those who haven’t developed the skill to do it by hand and eye, but field sharpening isn’t for me. I only set aside a few days per year to go out and harvest a full years’ wood, so my goal is maximum productivity on those few days. I’ve gotten to where I can fell, strip, load, and haul home almost a cord per hour. Stopping to sharpen a chain with any tool, no matter how clever, doesn’t fit into that scheme.

I just take spare chains with me on days when I’m cutting (I have several chains for each of my four bars), and can quickly swap them as needed. When I get low on my supply sharp chains (maybe twice per year) for any one of my bars, I’ll pull out the bench-mounted grinder, and will spend a Tuesday night sharpening them in my heated shop by the radio while sipping a coffee. I’d rather not burn an extra minute of my precious daylight hours on a Saturday in the woods messing with a rocked or even marginally dull chain, esp. when cutting with a buddy who might be waiting on me for the next log to skid.

My $0.02, learn to use a grinder. You can always make more money to buy more chains and tools, but time (esp. winter daylight hours) is of limited supply.