Help Me choose the correct Insert... PART TWO

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joshuaboston

Member
Jul 24, 2015
79
Boston
I first would like to thank you in advance for your input.

After my first post, done about two weeks ago, I have decided that I would not install a wood stove but now I will install a wood insert.

I also want to add that I am a complete NOOB and I still am partially confused.

I did visit my local dealer regarding a FireplaceX insert, as you know I have a corner fireplace and FireplaceX does custom paneling.

Does anyone have any insight with the hybrid wood inserts of FireplaceX?

So I have a few questions.

1. I am looking to get a catalyst insert, one with a clean burn. Is this bad? Or Good? What are some of the cons of this verse a non-catalyst insert?

2. I am torn between their only two sizes for their catalyst insert, small or large.

Small is 1.2 Cubic Foot, up to 1,000 sf with 47,000 BTU/h, with .89 grams/hr for emissions and 76.5% efficiency.

Large is 3.0 Cubic Foot, up to 2,500 sf with 83,220 BTU/h, with .58 grams/hr for emissions and 80.3% efficiency. My place is about 1,800 sf, two floors and a loft.

3. I have attached two quotes, one for the smaller version and one for the larger version. I mentioned (based on my reading of other posts), that it may be better to put in a insulated liner and I was told no. They block the top of the insert with insulation (some kind of damper wall) and also block off the top with a cap and I don’t need or want a insulated liner since it will go through my chimney. What is your opinion?

OK, so my preference would be the larger insert only because it has a nicer look and a bigger viewing window. The shop tells me I can use the larger insert and just not burn at it’s highest levels. Does this sound right?

Now I don’t have to use FireplaceX, but my local dealer does carry that brand and gets very good reviews regarding the install and service. I am still opened to anything… just want to get your opinion before I make the plunge.

The last cost not listed is that I need to get a plug installed into my fireplace.

Thanks again.

quote.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
joshuaboston said:
I first would like to thank you in advance for your input.

After my first post, done about two weeks ago, I have decided that I would not install a wood stove but now I will install a wood insert.

I also want to add that I am a complete NOOB and I still am partially confused.

I did visit my local dealer regarding a FireplaceX insert, as you know I have a corner fireplace and FireplaceX does custom paneling.

Does anyone have any insight with the hybrid wood inserts of FireplaceX?

So I have a few questions.

1. I am looking to get a catalyst insert, one with a clean burn. Is this bad? Or Good? What are some of the cons of this verse a non-catalyst insert?

2. I am torn between their only two sizes for their catalyst insert, small or large.

Small is 1.2 Cubic Foot, up to 1,000 sf with 47,000 BTU/h, with .89 grams/hr for emissions and 76.5% efficiency.

Large is 3.0 Cubic Foot, up to 2,500 sf with 83,220 BTU/h, with .58 grams/hr for emissions and 80.3% efficiency. My place is about 1,800 sf, two floors and a loft.

3. I have attached two quotes, one for the smaller version and one for the larger version. I mentioned (based on my reading of other posts), that it may be better to put in a insulated liner and I was told no. They block the top of the insert with insulation (some kind of damper wall) and also block off the top with a cap and I don’t need or want a insulated liner since it will go through my chimney. What is your opinion?

OK, so my preference would be the larger insert only because it has a nicer look and a bigger viewing window. The shop tells me I can use the larger insert and just not burn at it’s highest levels. Does this sound right?

Now I don’t have to use FireplaceX, but my local dealer does carry that brand and gets very good reviews regarding the install and service. I am still opened to anything… just want to get your opinion before I make the plunge.

The last cost not listed is that I need to get a plug installed into my fireplace.

Thanks again. View attachment 229509
Click to expand...
I would definitely get the largest insert you can fit into your fireplace. Bottom line is you can always burn smaller fires in mild weather, but in extreme cold you will want the heat output a larger firebox will provide.
 
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The FPX insert is essentially the same as the Lopi Large Flush Hybrid-Fyre Wood insert. You may find more reviews for that model. For comparison have you priced out the Regency CI2600 (also sold as the Hampton HI400 with the fancier surround )?
 
Thats about what mine was. I have a lopi cape cod insert.... The dealer also charged me for the 5 hour round trip for them to come install...

Go biggest you can fit
 
OK, I will go with the larger unit if it fits (I am pretty sure it will fit).

What about the install? Is it recommended to have a full insulated liner even though it will use the exiting chimney? Is packing fireproof insulation acceptable as a dampener (that is what the shop says it does)?

The good news is that this shop gets very high reviews regarding service and installation. I have an appointment on September 23rd for the measurements and then I write my first check.

OK... WHAT ABOUT... Green Start? Does anyone know the price of this? Or should I buy super cedar (what do you use?)?

Remember I am a complete Noob.


And is there any kind of thermostat I can use with this insert?
 
joshuaboston said:
OK, I will go with the larger unit if it fits (I am pretty sure it will fit).

What about the install? Is it recommended to have a full insulated liner even though it will use the exiting chimney? Is packing fireproof insulation acceptable as a dampener (that is what the shop says it does)?

The good news is that this shop gets very high reviews regarding service and installation. I have an appointment on September 23rd for the measurements and then I write my first check.

OK... WHAT ABOUT... Green Start? Does anyone know the price of this? Or should I buy super cedar (what do you use?)?

Remember I am a complete Noob.


And is there any kind of thermostat I can use with this insert?
Click to expand...
In almost all cases it is more than recomended the liner be insulated. In just about every case it is required by code. And stuffing insulation in the bottom is better than nothing but is no substitute for a proper block off plate.
 
joshuaboston said:
OK, I will go with the larger unit if it fits (I am pretty sure it will fit).

What about the install? Is it recommended to have a full insulated liner even though it will use the exiting chimney? Is packing fireproof insulation acceptable as a dampener (that is what the shop says it does)?

The good news is that this shop gets very high reviews regarding service and installation. I have an appointment on September 23rd for the measurements and then I write my first check.

OK... WHAT ABOUT... Green Start? Does anyone know the price of this? Or should I buy super cedar (what do you use?)?

Remember I am a complete Noob.


And is there any kind of thermostat I can use with this insert?
Click to expand...
And no there is no thermostat to control that insert.
 
I dont have blockoff or insulated liner. It's in a north facing exterior masonry chimney. They put insulation in the chimney throat and at the top.

Not optimal but it works. I can get my living room easily past 80 degrees. Sometimes over 90 degrees. The only time I wish I had a blockoff plate is on days or nights below zero. Then I can tell the masonry is cooling the heat off compared to warmer days.
 
bholler said:
In almost all cases it is more than recomended the liner be insulated. In just about every case it is required by code. And stuffing insulation in the bottom is better than nothing but is no substitute for a proper block off plate.
Click to expand...
I thought the liner does not need to be insulated if it is going through your chimney which has a clay liner.

Should I insist on having a proper block off plate? These people are the experts and they tell me this is how they do it.... just don't want to step on toes when I hire them to do the install. I don't mind spending an extra $500.00 when I am already at $7,000.00 to have the job done RIGHT!!!
 
joshuaboston said:
Should I insist on having a proper block off plate? These people are the experts and they tell me this is how they do it.... just don't want to step on toes when I hire them to do the install. I don't mind spending an extra $500.00 when I am already at $7,000.00 to have the job done RIGHT!!!
Click to expand...
It's your call. Functionally a block-off plate is not required. That said, heat wasted warming up outdoors = more wood consumed.
 
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joshuaboston said:
I thought the liner does not need to be insulated if it is going through your chimney which has a clay liner.

Should I insist on having a proper block off plate? These people are the experts and they tell me this is how they do it.... just don't want to step on toes when I hire them to do the install. I don't mind spending an extra $500.00 when I am already at $7,000.00 to have the job done RIGHT!!!
Click to expand...
The existence and condition of a clay liner has no bearing at all on the insulation requirements. That comes down to the clearance from the outside of the masonry structure to any combustible material. For an internal chimney you need 2" for an external one you need 1". This is a common misconception made worse by some manufacturers who put it in their instructions. But when asked that they reply that only applies to code compliant chimneys. Which without that clearance they are not.
 
OK…


So I just got the final consultation.

I will be installing the large fireplace xtrordinair hybrid fyre wood insert.

The company states that they will do a damper plate and the bottom and flashing with silicone caulking at the top.

The person does not think it is necessary to have an insulated liner. I can for the additional cost… but he says that he “never” does it because it is a waste of money.

Lastly, he says that I should not install an outlet in the inside of the fireplace. While I have a tone of room, he says the heat from the wood insert is too dangerous for an outlet. The installer states that you can install outlets for gas and pellets inserts because they don’t get as hot as a wood burning insert. What is your opinion?

Thanks for your input.
 
Wanted to add that the price went up by about $500.00 with an insulated liner.

ALSO....

Lastly, I am suppose to put down my deposit on Monday... hoping for a few responses. THANK YOU!!!

P.S. I have an outside chimney.
 
joshuaboston said:
Wanted to add that the price went up by about $500.00 with an insulated liner.

ALSO....

Lastly, I am suppose to put down my deposit on Monday... hoping for a few responses. THANK YOU!!!

P.S. I have an outside chimney.
Click to expand...
Do you have the required clearances between the masonry structure and combustible materials?
 
I really don't know .. but I do have an oversized brick chimney so I think the answer is yes. And from what I read, all I need is one inch.
 
joshuaboston said:
I really don't know .. but I do have an oversized brick chimney so I think the answer is yes. And from what I read, all I need is one inch.
Click to expand...
Yes 1" between the outside of that masonry structure and any combustible materials.
 
I dont have one, i'm exterior masonry. It's on the north side in Northern Iowa, strong frigid wind hits it all winter. No problems. If i were to burn more 24/7 i would do the insulated liner. But for my needs it seems to run fine without it. I have 25+ feet of pipe for good draft.
 
joshuaboston said:
So, if I have the clearance... which I am sure I do, does this mean I do not need a liner? They difference is like $700.00 (with taxes).
Click to expand...
Very very few chimney have that clearance. I work on and inspect hundreds every year and only a couple have the required clearances. And regardless you need a liner for an insert because there is no way to make a positive connection to the existing clay and the clay is almost certainly more than 3 times the volume of the stove outlet. Not to mention the insert will work like crap and be hatd to maintain with a direct connect.
 
bholler said:
Very very few chimney have that clearance. I work on and inspect hundreds every year and only a couple have the required clearances. And regardless you need a liner for an insert because there is no way to make a positive connection to the existing clay and the clay is almost certainly more than 3 times the volume of the stove outlet. Not to mention the insert will work like crap and be hatd to maintain with a direct connect.
Click to expand...

First of all, I am sorry for my low vocabular. I am getting a 6" stainless liner... but does this liner need to be insulated... that is my question. SO sorry about the confusion.

OK... so my question is... does my liner need to be insulated?
 
joshuaboston said:
OK...

thanks for your feed back. I really need to understand if it will do anything? or is it a waste of money?
Click to expand...
An insulated liner will protect your house from heat transfer in the event of a chimney fire. Masonry conducts heat very well and many house fires have been started because of it. This is why code requires air space between the chimney and the house. Like i said most chimneys dont have that so insulated liners take care of that problem.

The insulation also keeps the exhaust temperatures up inside the flue which means you can run the stove with cooler exhaust temps and still have little to no creosote buildup.
 
joshuaboston said:
First of all, I am sorry for my low vocabular. I am getting a 6" stainless liner... but does this liner need to be insulated... that is my question. SO sorry about the confusion.

OK... so my question is... does my liner need to be insulated?
Click to expand...
Sorry i misunderstood
 
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