Bad LP
Minister of Fire
Tell the guy at 700 to step away from the crack pipe. That's insane at every level of conversation..
Is Kiln Dried Worth the Extra $$$ ?
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jharkin
Minister of Fire
If you consider the investment in capital equipment, energy cost to operate the kiln, and labor in a high cost state like MA its probably not crazy at all if the guy wants to make a living.
But relative to the energy cost of burning natgas, LP or even oil for heat its not cost effective for the consumer.
But relative to the energy cost of burning natgas, LP or even oil for heat its not cost effective for the consumer.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
Production costs never govern the price a product can command. All most end users care about is the price vs what it is worth to them. If something is priced higher than I feel it is worth you will have a hard time selling it to me, no matter what it cost you to make it. It is one of the reasons so many businesses fold. Often they cannot make a product that is profitable to sell at what people are willing to pay.
jharkin
Minister of Fire
You partially contradicted yourself there - as the production cost does set a floor on the minimum price a good can be offered to market at. Above that cost there is a tradeoff in sales volume vs. margin. Big corporations spend a lot of time researching the ideal price point that will return the optimum margin per unit vs. sales volume ratio.
If the product cant sell above production cost then as you say there is no market, except for cases where i given product is used as a loss leader to get buyers in front of more profitable items.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
There is no contradiction. If it costs me $100 to produce something and nobody is willing to pay more than $85, I end up out of the production business, period. Nobody in the real world cares one bit what it cost me to produce it except me. The cost of production argument is often used by startup businesses but is seldom supported in the marketplace.
fire_man
Minister of Fire
I checked some google hits for kiln dried firewood in MA and could not believe one place sells it for $1000/cord. Guess $700 being expensive is relative?!?
I agree to a certain point but Production costs absolutely have to govern the price. If they didn't then do one could stay in business. Now i do agree that if your production costs are much higher than you competitor then yeah you are not going to be able to charge what you need to and you either have to reduce costs or get out of that buisness.
paul bunion
Minister of Fire
You will probably find that in most cases 'kiln dried' only meets the regulations to kill any bugs so it can be transported freely. It is held at a certain temp for a certain length of time. It will not mean that the operator runs a drying schedule to get the wood to a certain moisture content.
That is how it is done by us as well the wood is usually not dry. But it also does not cost that much either
mwhitnee
Minister of Fire
seabert
Member
I have the same unit. I have burned Envi (enviro bricks) for 2 years now. Much cheaper than Kiln Dried and much easier to stack and store indoors. I also mix the blocks with cordwood. My chimney sweep guy inspects everything and he said I was doing everything right. I have used up to 5 Envi 8's at once with no problem but you really need no more than 4. If mixing with cordwood use 2 Envi 8's. When mixing you will find the Envi's really help.
CentralVAWoodHeat
Minister of Fire
Turn the furnace up this year, buy or cut 2 years ahead, and start waiting. Never ever pay that much for wood.
Did you check Craigslist, maybe an area further away than your direct area? Some guys are willing to deliver an hour or so away. BTW, make sure you differentiate between wood types. I pay a little more for hardwoods like locust or oak, which is worth it because they burn hotter and slower.
CheapBassTurd
Minister of Fire
Is there a reason not to process your own wood?
Time?
Property with no extra trees?
Age?
Physical limitations?
No saw/ splitting axe/ splitter available?
No available wood at local dumps or roadside utility company cuts (scrounge)?
City, suburb, or country home location?
Just don't want to mess with it?
Is this part time, or going to be your primary heat source?
Myself and most of us are willing to offer up useful ideas, but what details are we working with?
Personally I get roadside precut and split and stack myself.
What is your situation? Those 5 and 6 dollar bundles certainly are not the answer except those wanting
some weekend ambience.
Time?
Property with no extra trees?
Age?
Physical limitations?
No saw/ splitting axe/ splitter available?
No available wood at local dumps or roadside utility company cuts (scrounge)?
City, suburb, or country home location?
Just don't want to mess with it?
Is this part time, or going to be your primary heat source?
Myself and most of us are willing to offer up useful ideas, but what details are we working with?
Personally I get roadside precut and split and stack myself.
What is your situation? Those 5 and 6 dollar bundles certainly are not the answer except those wanting
some weekend ambience.
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I’m in Mass, south of Boston. A neighbor pays around 300 a cord, it’s not fully seasoned and he buys it in the late summer, too late. My street is surrounded by woods. I walk in the woods and drag out logs and scrounge what I can fit in my trunk, a large trunk. If you see a home or addition being built nearby and you have a way to get scraps home it can be a great source of supplemental wood, end cuts, rafter cuts and stair stringer cuts are great for burning, you just won’t get long burns.
Scrounging takes time unless you happen upon one large single find. I found a nice stash of oak cut in 18 inch to 6 foot length from a utility easement running through the woods. Very little can be burned this year. It looks like it was trimmed a year or more ago. I have to get it cut and split by spring if I want any hope of burning it next winter.
Scrounging takes time unless you happen upon one large single find. I found a nice stash of oak cut in 18 inch to 6 foot length from a utility easement running through the woods. Very little can be burned this year. It looks like it was trimmed a year or more ago. I have to get it cut and split by spring if I want any hope of burning it next winter.
lindnova
Feeling the Heat
There is a guy locally that has a natural gas fired kiln. Sells retail wood in pre-measured stacks. Back the car up and fill up. Certified to kill bugs and can be moved without transporting disease. Yes it is expensive and for me would be prohibitive to saving money, but he sells a lot of wood.
$700 /cord sounds way too high.
$700 /cord sounds way too high.
"Kiln-dried" has just about as much meaning as "seasoned" or "air-dried" without specification of MC. Certainly not oriented toward prep of fuelwood. I'd suggest you think farther ahead (like 3-4 yrs min.), hook up with a scrounging buddy, get a decent 40-50 cc chainsaw, and set to scrounging the area. Contact tree services to let them know they can dump logs at your place. Ask equipment dealers if you can take their busted skids. It works.
Of course you'll need to learn about care & feeding of chainsaws, and splitting wood. Not rocket science, just needs a moderate attention span.
Of course you'll need to learn about care & feeding of chainsaws, and splitting wood. Not rocket science, just needs a moderate attention span.
$700 sounds expensive but I wouldn't be surprised if sales are brisk even at that price East of Metrowest.
I would be tempted sell my 3 and 4 year seasoned red and white oak for $350 or more and buy oil.
$275 and up for "seasoned" and mixed hardwoods around me. Not many guys selling this year either. What they are selling looks fresh cut and split.
Big mountains in their ads.
Buying wood after a new stove install can be rough. Good luck finding something decent.
I would be tempted sell my 3 and 4 year seasoned red and white oak for $350 or more and buy oil.
$275 and up for "seasoned" and mixed hardwoods around me. Not many guys selling this year either. What they are selling looks fresh cut and split.
Big mountains in their ads.
Buying wood after a new stove install can be rough. Good luck finding something decent.
The Principal
Member
ekg0477
Member
7 bills per cord is insane. It doesn't have to be kiln dried, I guess that kills the bugs, but wow that price is high. I can get a log load delivered for just about that price.
Buy green wood cut to the right length now in the quantity you need for next year. Buy it as cheap as you can. Fight through this year in whatever way you need to. It’s just what happens your first year. We’ve all fought through it. After buying your first year, start cutting splitting and stacking yourself if you can/so desire.
Most of us don’t decide to heat with wood with 6 cords of seasoned wood at the ready.
Most of us don’t decide to heat with wood with 6 cords of seasoned wood at the ready.
Dug8498
Feeling the Heat
I second this. Last winter was our first winter heating with wood. We moved into our house in January. Bought some “seasoned wood” right when we moved in and turned out to be oak that was 35-40 mc. It sucked. Went and bought a bunch of wood this spring at a low price and immediately stacked to ensure I would never do that again. Now working on acquiring free wood to split and stack
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tsquini
Minister of Fire
I was pondering the same question. There was seasoned outside wood for $350 and kiln dried for $500. Both of these piles of wood were on display outside in a dumped pile in the elements. Rain, snow, fog.
I concluded that kiln dry wood water content will eventually equalize to the regular seasoned wood water content by being out in the elements. Because of this I don't think it is worth the extra to buy kiln dried wood. If it was covered when stored I might think differently.
I concluded that kiln dry wood water content will eventually equalize to the regular seasoned wood water content by being out in the elements. Because of this I don't think it is worth the extra to buy kiln dried wood. If it was covered when stored I might think differently.
