Myth that noncats provide only a few hrs usable heat

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illini81

Feeling the Heat
Apr 7, 2017
376
Southeastern CT
I’ve read a few cat owners make the claim that noncat stoves only provide 3ish hours of usable heat, and then all you have is coals till your next reload. I have not at all found that to be the case with my noncat. For a while now, I have wanted to prove this out by throwing on a load and measuring the stove temp every 30 min or so for the full load. I wasn’t able to do that today… but I did note the time that I loaded the stove (8:00 AM), and circled back at 3:00 PM (7 hrs later). The stove is currently at 395 degrees F. A picture of the coal bed is attached.

The whole load has been with the air 90-100% of the way closed. If I had opened it up further several hrs into the burn, it would certainly be hotter than it is now. However, the stove is currently keeping our downstairs at 68 degrees (has been between 67.7 and 68.5 for the past 5 hours), so no need to increase the stove temp.

Anyways, hope this is helpful for people doing stove research and sifting through all the claims that you find on hearth.com :)
 

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Not sure what others have said but I call Tube stoves Cycle burners, meaning you have peaks and valleys in the temperature pattern, that accurately describes them better than by xx amount of hours since stoves vary in size and conditions can dictate it to be run harder than other times.

When you do your test you will see the load will offgas giving a high temp from the secondary burn then the temps will settle down once the offgas is done and you will go to your coaling stage which will further reduce your temps till you do your next reload, then repeat.

Cat stoves burn more even over a period of time since the heat is produced by a chemical reaction from the smoke and heat.
 
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I haven’t necessarily seen this to be the sentiment on here. I see a lot of members talk about substantial overnight/ work day burns with their non cat stoves.

I loaded my non- cat 1983 jotul 118b at 6 am this morning before work and just got home from work 9.5 hours later. Stove top thermometer reading 400F, plenty of coals for a re-light and indoor temp very comfortable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mellow said:
Not sure what others have said but I call Tube stoves Cycle burners, meaning you have peaks and valleys in the temperature pattern, that accurately describes them better than by xx amount of hours since stoves vary in size and conditions can dictate it to be run harder than other times.

When you do your test you will see the load will offgas giving a high temp from the secondary burn then the temps will settle down once the offgas is done and you will go to your coaling stage which will further reduce your temps till you do your next reload, then repeat.

Cat stoves burn more even over a period of time since the heat is produced by a chemical reaction from the smoke and heat.
Click to expand...

Well said


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mellow said:
Not sure what others have said but I call Tube stoves Cycle burners, meaning you have peaks and valleys in the temperature pattern, that accurately describes them better than by xx amount of hours since stoves vary in size and conditions can dictate it to be run harder than other times.

When you do your test you will see the load will offgas giving a high temp from the secondary burn then the temps will settle down once the offgas is done and you will go to your coaling stage which will further reduce your temps till you do your next reload, then repeat.

Cat stoves burn more even over a period of time since the heat is produced by a chemical reaction from the smoke and heat.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I understand the basic progression. However, it seems like I've read some people make the argument that the peak of the noncat heat cycle is very high and of short duration, and then the stove doesn't put out much heat until you re-load. And similarly, the assertion is made that house temps follow the stove temps and soar at the beginning and then crash until you load again.
 
I found with my Insert install that room temps did peak and fall with a Tube stove, I am not talking about a huge temp swing but enough that it is noticeable.

Especially with the wife guage, ie its to hot in here... now it's to cold in here turn up the stove again.

That all went away with the BK with metered incoming air so the temp was more consistent in the room with the insert.
 
mellow said:
I found with my Insert install that room temps did peak and fall with a Tube stove, I am not talking about a huge temp swing but enough that it is noticeable.

Especially with the wife guage, ie its to hot in here... now it's to cold in here turn up the stove again.

That all went away with the BK with metered incoming air so the temp was more consistent in the room with the insert.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and it sounds like other people have that experience as well, but then I think there are plenty of noncat burners who are able to control their room temp plus or minus a degree or two. However, sometimes it seems like the story that's told is - you are at the mercy of your unpredictable stove if you have a noncat, whereas if you have a cat you can pick any temp and hit it with ease. I don't doubt that it's easier with a cat, but I think people that have figured out their noncats can do it too. Just my experience :)
 
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Both types of stove technology keep houses warm all over this planet. Lots of open fires in pits too.

So easy a caveman can do it.
 
I read your thread title again and thought I should elaborate. We’re all agreeing here so don’t get all upset! I am able to burn a full load in my 3.5 cubic foot noncat down to just a few coals in 3 hours. Maybe you misunderstood that to mean that that is the only way noncats work? No, I and many other folks have managed to get honest overnight burns with even just medium sized noncats. There is some amount of operational flexibility in how they run. More than a fire pit and less than a good cat stove.

Don’t just complain, tell us about your long burns from your noncat!
 
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Well I can say one thing for sure at least in my book, after going to cat stoves from the tube type or downdraft as dutch west calls it, ILL never go back.
 
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Highbeam said:
I read your thread title again and thought I should elaborate. We’re all agreeing here so don’t get all upset! I am able to burn a full load in my 3.5 cubic foot noncat down to just a few coals in 3 hours. Maybe you misunderstood that to mean that that is the only way noncats work? No, I and many other folks have managed to get honest overnight burns with even just medium sized noncats. There is some amount of operational flexibility in how they run. More than a fire pit and less than a good cat stove.

Don’t just complain, tell us about your long burns from your noncat!
Click to expand...
Nice post, HB. As one of the only posters from the biheaters community, we enjoy your experience.
 
The forum can become slanted sometimes as members that want to talk about woodstoves obviously are enthusiasts much more than many everyday users. We really try to give all sides to the different burners. As I was looking through data from HPBA , I found that CAT stoves make up only 17% of all wood stoves sold in 2017. So keep in mind 80% of the people that visit the site never sign up as members. That is why a balanced approach is best and keeping in mind the vast majority of wood burners don't burn CATs.

upload_2018-11-21_16-42-49.png
 
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I bought an insert as a supplement to our natural gas and to make our previously coldest room of the house - the family room/library - the warmest. I went with a tube stove for the enhanced fire show, but there definitely are peaks ana valleys in the heat, especially in a place like ours where there are heat distribution issues.
If I was going to/had to heat with wood full time I would definitely go with a cat stove - they are much closer to a furnace as far as ease of use and constant, steady temps.
 
ratsrepus said:
Well I can say one thing for sure at least in my book, after going to cat stoves from the tube type or downdraft as dutch west calls it, ILL never go back.
Click to expand...
I like the blazeking but not enough to buy one. Maybe if i had more of a shoulder season because that is where they shine. But i really am not seeing much benifit in the colder temps.
 
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Why do some feel like its illegal or immoral to open a stove more often than every 8 hours? If you are away or sleeping its one thing.
 
Ludlow said:
Why do some feel like its illegal or immoral to open a stove more often than every 8 hours?
Click to expand...

People have been burned at the stake for lesser offenses. ;-)

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m rarely even home that often. If my stoves couldn’t go at least 12 hours, I’d have to re-light them at least once per day.
 
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Holy crap! Cat stoves make up 20% of sales?! I would never have thought they were growing the market share so fast.

Let’s spin that data a bit. I could call cat stoves the fastest growing market segment (assuming it was lower before) and that many people come here looking for advice on which stove to buy. Growing numbers are deciding that long burn times are important.

Wow, 1 in 5 new stoves are cat stoves. That’s really amazing considering that only a couple of “off” brands make them.
 
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Ludlow said:
Why do some feel like its illegal or immoral to open a stove more often than every 8 hours? If you are away or sleeping its one thing.
Click to expand...

You can load any wood burner just as often as you want. No shame in that. Many of us sleep, work, or prefer the constant heat output of a long burner. It’s like the fuel tank in your truck, add a gallon or add 20, the pumps don’t care.
 
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bholler said:
I like the blazeking but not enough to buy one. Maybe if i had more of a shoulder season because that is where they shine. But i really am not seeing much benifit in the colder temps.
Click to expand...

Agree. I live in an area where January sees lows in the -30 to -40 and highs in the -5 area. Coldest place in the lower 48.

My buddy has a BK princess cat. Love the long burn times and thought about getting one. But when the cat is engaged he gets crap heat. And on high it just doesnt put out the heat of my tube stove. When it’s -30 out I like my Quad tube. And it was half the cost of that BK ( but I did get a deal )
 
I like reading these posts, both sides have equally great examples of what is better, but in reality it should just be what works best for you.
I've own / ran both types of stoves in the same house, the non cat tube stove would heat up fast but with my work schedule I would come home to a cold house, plus it was a pia to relight the stove, with my princess im able to easily hit 12-16hr burn times in the coldest of weather and keep the place in the low 70's, on even colder nights (below zero deg f with a wind) i'll burn even hotter and drop to 10hr burn times (which was the best my tube stove could do when temps were in the 20's)
So its a coin toss per user, everyone's setup is different, everyones houses, windows, insulation is different.
 
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Owning both types of stoves, I think the sizing of a non-cat stove for the home is more critical than with a cat stove. I burn my BK with flames probably half the time, but the ability to turn it down further is a definite plus. I have reloaded my non-cat after 10 hrs without kindling, but the stove wasn’t producing much heat at that time.
 
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woodhog73 said:
Agree. I live in an area where January sees lows in the -30 to -40 and highs in the -5 area. Coldest place in the lower 48.

My buddy has a BK princess cat. Love the long burn times and thought about getting one. But when the cat is engaged he gets crap heat. And on high it just doesnt put out the heat of my tube stove. When it’s -30 out I like my Quad tube. And it was half the cost of that BK ( but I did get a deal )
Click to expand...
Crap for heat once the bypass is closed? I assure you, that’s not the general consensus. Not to mention, you are using a geographical locational that’s almost impossible to survive in. Most stove owners don’t deal with extremes like this. I suppose with extremes like this, a stove that will run wildly out of control would excel, a blast furnace is what’s really needed!
 
illini81 said:
I’ve read a few cat owners make the claim that noncat stoves only provide 3ish hours of usable heat, and then all you have is coals till your next reload. I have not at all found that to be the case with my noncat. For a while now, I have wanted to prove this out by throwing on a load and measuring the stove temp every 30 min or so for the full load. I wasn’t able to do that today… but I did note the time that I loaded the stove (8:00 AM), and circled back at 3:00 PM (7 hrs later). The stove is currently at 395 degrees F. A picture of the coal bed is attached.

The whole load has been with the air 90-100% of the way closed. If I had opened it up further several hrs into the burn, it would certainly be hotter than it is now. However, the stove is currently keeping our downstairs at 68 degrees (has been between 67.7 and 68.5 for the past 5 hours), so no need to increase the stove temp.

Anyways, hope this is helpful for people doing stove research and sifting through all the claims that you find on hearth.com :)
Click to expand...
Nice, how mouth cubic feet is your stove?
 
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