Woodstock progress hybrid stove temp vs pipe temp

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tgumby4

tgumby4

Member
Feb 18, 2017
35
West Virginia
I recently installed a Progress Hybrid stove in my home. The Progress replaced a non EPA Fisher papa bear. My chimney is double wall insulated 6" stainless steel with about 19' outside and 4' of single wall stove pipe inside. My stove is located in the basement. The problem I seem to be having is to much draft. My stove temperature is only 150 degrees hotter than my stove pipe temperature about 10 inches above my stove. Any other Progress owners have bigger temperature difference? I also can only open the air intake about 1/4 ways without the stove taking off into the over fire range. It appears I have to good of a draft except the fact that while reloading the stove I get a small amount of smoke that roles out of the door.
 
Put a damper in your pipe, mine likes to run hot too, I just have to pay close attention on start ups.
 
weatherguy said:
Put a damper in your pipe, mine likes to run hot too, I just have to pay close attention on start ups.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Do you monitor stove vs pipe temperature on your Progress? I only have a 150 degree separation at any given time between the two. Is this acceptable?
 
tgumby4 said:
Thanks for the reply. Do you monitor stove vs pipe temperature on your Progress? I only have a 150 degree separation at any given time between the two. Is this acceptable?
Click to expand...
I dont because it's in my fireplace but I'm going to get something in the future. I dont think it should be that close but a damper would probably help that.
 
Under what condition you reload? On a good bed of coals? Almost out? With a good draft you shouldn't have smoke issues unless you let it die and have to build draft again. Any bend on your system, 45s, 90s, etc?
 
Are you opening the bypass on reloads?
 
lsucet said:
Are you opening the bypass on reloads?
Click to expand...
I open the bypass and open draft fully a couple minutes before reloading. I reload with plenty of coals to restart fire and engage combuster within a couple of minutes. I have one 90 inside, a T outside and two 22's to offset around my overhang. The baffling thing is I'm also having trouble controlling the stove from overfiring.
 
Well new stoves are sensitive to those bends. I think you should look into a way of testing your draft cause it sounds like can be poor draft with all those bends.
Another important point is the quality of the wood you are using talking about moist content ( MC ).
It should be under 20 of MC. That's another thing to look into it.
 
What are the temperatures you seeing? Stove top and flue temperature. Can be possible to what you are seeing is secondary burn? Cause it is a hybrid, correct?
 
I think what you are seeing and you call overfire when open the air 1/4 or so is secondary burn. With air completely shut, you're burning on cat mode= no secondary.
I never burn one of those but I think that is the way it works.
 
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tgumby4 said:
stove temperature is only 150 degrees hotter than my stove pipe temperature about 10 inches above my stove.
Click to expand...
Where do you measure temp on the stove top..is it where they say to measure it in the manual?
edyit said:
move your thermometer up, most say to place them 16-18 inches above the stove
Click to expand...
Yep, I've seen 12-18", for surface meter on single-wall..
These meters have been known to be off as well..you might want to pick up an IR thermometer.
tgumby4 said:
It appears I have to good of a draft except the fact that while reloading the stove I get a small amount of smoke that roles out of the door.
Click to expand...
Most people "batch-burn," that is, let the stove burn down to a somewhat small coal bed, before loading again. At that point, there's no smoke in the stove so it doesn't roll out of the door. Or are you getting the smoke because you have just placed new wood on the coals?
What makes you think your draft may be "too strong?"
 
lsucet said:
What are the temperatures you seeing? Stove top and flue temperature. Can be possible to what you are seeing is secondary burn? Cause it is a hybrid, correct?
Click to expand...

I can pretty much see any temperature I want out of the stove based on amount of wood of air i put to the stove. I can run stove top temperature of 650 but then my flue temperature is 500 which I think is high but not really sure. Stove is a hybrid.

lsucet said:
I think what you are seeing and you call overfire when open the air 1/4 or so is secondary burn. With air completely shut, you're burning on cat mode= no secondary.
I never burn one of those but I think that is the way it works.
Click to expand...

Will a full load of wood and 1\4 air open i can get stove top temperature of 650 and still climbing. I then have to reduce the air intake.

edyit said:
move your thermometer up, most say to place them 16-18 inches above the stove
Click to expand...

Woodstock stove manual says 8-10 inches above stove. I'm using the temperature gauge that came with the stove as well as Lowe s special infrared gun. Both show roughly the same temperature.

Woody Stover said:
Where do you measure temp on the stove top..is it where they say to measure it in the manual?
Yep, I've seen 12-18", for surface meter on single-wall..
These meters have been known to be off as well..you might want to pick up an IR thermometer.
Most people "batch-burn," that is, let the stove burn down to a somewhat small coal bed, before loading again. At that point, there's no smoke in the stove so it doesn't roll out of the door. Or are you getting the smoke because you have just placed new wood on the coals?
What makes you think your draft may be "too strong?"
Click to expand...

I am not getting smoke from the coals but from the fresh wood I put in On a reload. Following stove manual wood and air adjustment stove top temperature Will rise to 700 degrees without reducing air.
 
As long as you can keep it under 700 you should be good.
 
Where are you placing the thermometer for the stovetop temp? The manual says for a rear vent stove to place it on the cover plate. I don't think my cover plate ever got anywhere close to 600F - it usually runs around 350-400F which is actually on the low sidee. I have about 18 feet of single wall side vent with only one 90 degree T.

From the Progress manual:

STOVE TOP READING OPERATION
over 300.....................OK to engage the combustor
400-600......................Normal operating temperature
600-700......................High burn range
over 700.....................DO NOT burn in this range
 
fire_man said:
Where are you placing the thermometer for the stovetop temp? The manual says for a rear vent stove to place it on the cover plate. I don't think my cover plate ever got anywhere close to 600F - it usually runs around 350-400F which is actually on the low sidee. I have about 18 feet of single wall side vent with only one 90 degree T.

From the Progress manual:

STOVE TOP READING OPERATION
over 300.....................OK to engage the combustor
400-600......................Normal operating temperature
600-700......................High burn range
over 700.....................DO NOT burn in this range
Click to expand...



I have been in touch with Woodstock and am expecting a return phone call. They seem to think I may be getting air leakage around the ashpan. I'm top venting so my stove temperature is measured in the back right corner on the cast iron per Woodstock recommendation. This morning I had the stove running around 650 and my pipe temperature was around 500, which to me seems way off. I double checked with the infrared heat gun and the gauges seem to be pretty close.
 
Wow- definitely check with WS on those high temps. I'll check the rear right corner temp on mine later today when I reload mine for a comparision.

I have an ashpan, too and worry about leakage so I keep my eye on the gasket.

You could try holding a lit match near the ashpan door gasket and near the pan's gasket to see if the flame gets drawn in. You would have to remove the heat shield from the bottom.
 
tgumby4 said:
They seem to think I may be getting air leakage around the ashpan.
Click to expand...
Does it look like air is coming in through the grate, are the coals down there glowing brightly? How does that gasket look, glued in well? Is the gasket pressed in slightly all the way around, where it hits the ash pan housing?
 
tgumby4 said:
I can pretty much see any temperature I want out of the stove based on amount of wood of air i put to the stove. I can run stove top temperature of 650 but then my flue temperature is 500 which I think is high but not really sure. Stove is a hybrid.



Will a full load of wood and 1\4 air open i can get stove top temperature of 650 and still climbing. I then have to reduce the air intake.



Woodstock stove manual says 8-10 inches above stove. I'm using the temperature gauge that came with the stove as well as Lowe s special infrared gun. Both show roughly the same temperature.



I am not getting smoke from the coals but from the fresh wood I put in On a reload. Following stove manual wood and air adjustment stove top temperature Will rise to 700 degrees without reducing air.
Click to expand...
The only time my progress runs that close on exhaust temps is when I forget to close the bypass. It’s normally 55% of stove top temp. Roughly.

In my setup, 25% open on the air is running the stove full blast. I don’t run it past that except to reload, start a fire or burn some coals down. I normally run it about 15% or 0% for overnight burns.

Disclaimer, wood quality, species, split size and temp of the stove makes a huge difference in where my air gets set.
 
Just wanted to post an update after working with Woodstock. It appears one bolt on the ash pan was not tight enough and that was causing the stove to run hot. I tightened them all down and I can now control the unit. I'm still getting a small amount of smoke out the door on reloads when the coals are low which I assume is a draft issue. I'm trying figure out how to solve that next. Woodstock has been great and answered all of my questions and returned my calls. At this point I'm thinking my draft issue could be my thimble running down hill instead of running uphill.
 
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tgumby4 said:
It appears one bolt on the ash pan was not tight enough and that was causing the stove to run hot.
Click to expand...
Could you see excessive glowing there, or did the flames off the wood look like the air was coming from below?
On my Keystone, a "leaky" ash pan housing is actually part of the design. There's a 1/4" hole that they put in the back of the housing which admits a little air to burn the load down completely, and not leave any burnt-out coals in the box. If I run a poker along the back of the fire box floor, ashes will fall through the grate in that area and the ash pan air will enter back there, eventually boring a hole through the coaling back splits which results in a hollow "coal cave" about the size of a cantaloupe. Maybe you saw something like that develop later in the burn?
 
Woody Stover said:
Could you see excessive glowing there, or did the flames off the wood look like the air was coming from below?
On my Keystone, a "leaky" ash pan housing is actually part of the design. There's a 1/4" hole that they put in the back of the housing which admits a little air to burn the load down completely, and not leave any burnt-out coals in the box. If I run a poker along the back of the fire box floor, ashes will fall through the grate in that area and the ash pan air will enter back there, eventually boring a hole through the coaling back splits which results in a hollow "coal cave" about the size of a cantaloupe. Maybe you saw something like that develop later in the burn?
Click to expand...


The 1/4" hole definitely helps burn down the coals but I think its intended purpose was to prevent backpuffs. It allows a small amount of air into the firebox so that when the draft is turned low, gasses can't build up and cause a backpuff. It's kind of an "anti burp" hole.
 
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Mine is currently running at 460 with exterior stove pipe at 220, about 16” above the stove top. At the end of last year, I was using more wood than usual and had no coals in the morning. The temps didn’t seem off, but in retrospect they may have been high for partial loads during shoulder season. It turns out the ash pan door had become loose. After tightening, burns with venting at 0 last noticeably longer and will have coals for a restart well after 12 hours with stove temp in the 200s. Tightening that ‘leak’ definitely moderated temperatures and extended my burns by a lot. I wish I’d picked up on this back in March/April.
 
bfitz3 said:
It turns out the ash pan door had become loose. After tightening, burns with venting at 0 last noticeably longer and will have coals for a restart well after 12 hours with stove temp in the 200s.
Click to expand...

What did you tighten on the ash pan door? It does not look adjustable to me.
 
I tightened the handle itself. Open the door. Loosen the bolts on both sides of the handle at the pivot point, tighten the bolts back up as you apply pressure on the handle (pulling away from the stove, if I recall accurately), then close. If it’s not tighter, try again. Before I did this, I could ‘tighten’ the seal with hand pressure on the door and could see the flames change their character during startup. I did that before checking/replacing the gasket. What I did took maybe a minute and was quicker, cheaper and easier than replacing the gasket. If your door is snug on the gasket, tightening the door would be pointless. Use the dollar bill test. I absolutely had a leak that diminished the stove’s performance, even if it wasn’t excessively bad.
 
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