Need Some Help. Neighbor (Environmental Atty) Filed Complaint

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This thread has kind of gotten me paranoid about smoking out my neighbors, only because lately my Mother in Law has been at my house during the day watching my 3 month old and she tries to keep a fire going. I've explained to her numerous times what she needs to do, that the stove is actually very easy to operate it but, you need to do just that....actually operate it.

Yesterday I came home to 2 big splits in the stove partially blackened with zero signs of existing fire, no heat to the stove top and hardly any on the flue. She smoldered logs and just let them die out. I imagine the smoke was dumping out of the chimney for a while. I told her to please not worry about trying to keep the stove going....I'd rather come home to it cold than a smoldered mess.

Not saying the OP doesn't know how to burn his stoves, but if you have neighbors close by and you're smoking them out, something aint right!
 
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Possibly however if you are burning clean enough and the chimney is high enough its hard for a neighbor to to tell there's even a fire going. As an example, I just ran downstairs and took these three photos, all within a minute of each other.

Stove at a low cruise, air control fully closed, about half full of wood (pine <20%), just under 400F stove top temp:

View attachment 237818

No smoke visible from the top of the chimney.

View attachment 237819

zoomed in, still cant' even tell there's a fire burning

View attachment 237820

Doesn’t matter. He will see the wood, see smoke at startup, binoculars at your chimney to find even just clear heat waves, and fear for his life.

This has nothing to do with emissions.

The thing about neighbors like this is that what’s next? You bbqing food on the porch too smelly? Your mower is too loud? You start your truck too early?

Approach him and ask what, other than zero burning, will make him happy. Hope for an answer other than nothing.
 
This thread has kind of gotten me paranoid about smoking out my neighbors, only because lately my Mother in Law has been at my house during the day watching my 3 month old and she tries to keep a fire going. I've explained to her numerous times what she needs to do, that the stove is actually very easy to operate it but, you need to do just that....actually operate it.

Yesterday I came home to 2 big splits in the stove partially blackened with zero signs of existing fire, no heat to the stove top and hardly any on the flue. She smoldered logs and just let them die out. I imagine the smoke was dumping out of the chimney for a while. I told her to please not worry about trying to keep the stove going....I'd rather come home to it cold than a smoldered mess.

Not saying the OP doesn't know how to burn his stoves, but if you have neighbors close by and you're smoking them out, something aint right!

You should be worried. Anytime you are sending visible smoke into a neighbor’s yard at house level you are really taking a risk.

Most people do not burn wood and I’m guessing a majority of those nonburners think we burners are just dirty polluters doing something optional that harms their environment.

My bk, as with the op, spews cold, white, smoke for at least 30 minutes after a cold start. The smoke often settles to about eye level but luckily nobody lives really close. At my latitude it’s dark a lot and I actually prefer nighttime starts for this reason.
 
Doesn’t matter. He will see the wood, see smoke at startup, binoculars at your chimney to find even just clear heat waves, and fear for his life.

This has nothing to do with emissions.

The thing about neighbors like this is that what’s next? You bbqing food on the porch too smelly? Your mower is too loud? You start your truck too early?

Approach him and ask what, other than zero burning, will make him happy. Hope for an answer other than nothing.

Well if you have a neighbor that is that bad I dont think the right stance would be to give in to their every demand if you plan on continuing to live there. Just saying. I think that's a very unfortunate precedent to set. I would call this agency to see what I need to do to meet their standards; try to be reasonable. If they tell me there's nothing I can do, I would find a lawyer friend and see if I have a case to make. If I'm told no, then move on I guess?

Another possible, but less appealing route is to see if he's doing anything that violates some code and report him. He could back off his complaining if he also felt some pressure. Again, not a great route as a neighbor battle could escalate and make living in your own house really unpleasant.

Anyway, it seems the OP hadn't been on here for a bit. I hope he can update us if anything is tried as at this point, I'm very curious.
 
You should be worried. Anytime you are sending visible smoke into a neighbor’s yard at house level you are really taking a risk.

Most people do not burn wood and I’m guessing a majority of those nonburners think we burners are just dirty polluters doing something optional that harms their environment.

Luckily my immediate neighbors are cool and although dont have woodstoves, they have frequent bonfires. All it takes though is one bad neighbor to move in, much like what the OP had happen.
 
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Now this has me thinking... Just reviewed all of my towns codes and there’s nothing that could ever put me in this position if I had a chitty neighbor... phew.

Go NH! Live free or die!


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Hi All,
Thank you for taking the time to give me your feedback. The latest update is I have a meeting with the BOH tonite at 7pm. I will provide more updates after the meeting.

I was seriously looking into replacing my wood stoves with pellet stoves, knowing full well that it doesn't provide as much heat but I'm tired of having to look for seasoned woods. With this complaint, I think it will even harder to find seasoned woods under 20% MC as most, if not all, wood dealers don't really check their MC. I told the neighbor that I was considering going to pellet but he still filed the complaint anyway. Now, I have zero incentive to switch to pellet and I intend to fight this tooth and nail.

I am along the line of thinking with some of the responses that this will end up badly for me as the regulation is written as to discourage burning. As with anything, this is a politic game and I must play along. I'm pretty sure I know how the meeting with the BOH tonight will turn out. They going to want my assurance that I will only burn woods under 20% content. The next step would be an inspector coming out to observe my process from start to finish. I intend to buy a couple bundles of kiln dried woods from the local market and burn them at the inspection. After that, if my some miracle, they allow me to burn again, I will look to buy seasoned woods. I don't expect I can find any at this of year. As someone suggested, I'll try the compressed wood logs. I'm sure even then, the neighbor will find another issue to complain about but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Can't wait until spring so I can start burning outside using my fire pit, if you get my drift. LOL
 
Hi All,
Thank you for taking the time to give me your feedback. The latest update is I have a meeting with the BOH tonite at 7pm. I will provide more updates after the meeting.

I was seriously looking into replacing my wood stoves with pellet stoves, knowing full well that it doesn't provide as much heat but I'm tired of having to look for seasoned woods. With this complaint, I think it will even harder to find seasoned woods under 20% MC as most, if not all, wood dealers don't really check their MC. I told the neighbor that I was considering going to pellet but he still filed the complaint anyway. Now, I have zero incentive to switch to pellet and I intend to fight this tooth and nail.

I am along the line of thinking with some of the responses that this will end up badly for me as the regulation is written as to discourage burning. As with anything, this is a politic game and I must play along. I'm pretty sure I know how the meeting with the BOH tonight will turn out. They going to want my assurance that I will only burn woods under 20% content. The next step would be an inspector coming out to observe my process from start to finish. I intend to buy a couple bundles of kiln dried woods from the local market and burn them at the inspection. After that, if my some miracle, they allow me to burn again, I will look to buy seasoned woods. I don't expect I can find any at this of year. As someone suggested, I'll try the compressed wood logs. I'm sure even then, the neighbor will find another issue to complain about but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Can't wait until spring so I can start burning outside using my fire pit, if you get my drift. LOL

Rookie,

Please do keep us updated and good luck! Be careful getting kiln dried wood from the local market as that sometimes isn't actually as dry as you think. It just means that it was put in a kiln long enough to be insect free etc... Definitely get some of those compressed wood logs.

I would explain that you are happy to change burning habits as you weren't aware you were offending anyone. I would also point out that you think this neighbor is being unreasonable and is unwilling to compromise; that no other neighbor has ever complained. I would also point out that you paid quite a lot of money to have these highly efficient and EPA compliant wood stoves legally installed, that the town took money from you in the form of permits, and you would like the opportunity to use them. They might be reasonable if you seem reasonable!
 
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I was seriously looking into replacing my wood stoves with pellet stoves, knowing full well that it doesn't provide as much heat but I'm tired of having to look for seasoned woods. With this complaint, I think it will even harder to find seasoned woods under 20% MC as most, if not all, wood dealers don't really check their MC. I told the neighbor that I was considering going to pellet but he still filed the complaint anyway. Now, I have zero incentive to switch to pellet and I intend to fight this tooth and nail.

You can buy high quality or low quality pellet stoves that make much more heat than your woodstoves. They also make the heat non-stop. There are other drawbacks to pellet stoves but output is not one of them.

So you want to fight him. Okay, I wish you luck. Your meeting with the BOH will be helpful in knowing where they will land on this as far as helping you or helping him. Compressed wood logs are a great way to assure that your wood is dry but at 7% they've actually been shown to be too dry and overwhelm the cat leading to more smoke than properly seasoned firewood. Normally that extra blue smoke is no big deal but you're wanting to have the least amount of visible emissions so you ought to know the risk.

Will be fun to see how this turns out. I suspect that you will play along until you need to hire an attorney and that attorney gives you a quote along with a likelihood of winning.
 
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Living in an area that is predominantly Amish/Mennonite, I can only imagine the hilarity that would ensue if someone filed a similar complaint here. Who doesn't like the smell of wood smoke? Add it to the aroma when the farmers are spreading manure on their fields and it reminds me why I would never move back to Philadelphia.
 
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This case or scenario could be a learning lesson for other members who could be in a similar situation in the future. Whether it's due to a new neighbor, or updated laws. I'm curious to see how this plays out.
 
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A popular environmental saying is "the solution to pollution is dilution" An inefficient burn is not much of an issue where there are hundreds of feet between neighbors but a big issue when the neighbors house is 30 feet away.

I will be interested in the results of the BOH meeting. I think the question is who wants to draw and how gets to draw the arbitrary line between clean appliance operation and dirty appliance operation?. Even with big boilers there is typically and exemption for startup/shutdown/malfunction where the air emissions limits are not applicable. I expect it would be interesting to see how many "illegal" wood and pellet stoves are already installed in that town.
 
Keep in mind that those you are meeting with likely have no idea of this 20% moisture content rule and most normal non firewood geek people would find it pretty outrageous to measure moisture content in the first place.

Part of me would think it's best to just play dumb like literally 95% of other wood burners are. The knowledge of burning you would get from message boards like this is likely to go right over their heads.
 
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Option, burn hard coal, very little smoke at start up, none wants its cruising. Except for start up no real sulfur odor either. 18 hour burns can be achieved in the good stoves. If your buying firewood anyways it would be comparable in btu's, probably more actually. Very even heat for many hours. Yes, I have a small back up coal stove 1930's from prewar Germany I run when it's around 0 outside. Just saying.
 
Option, burn hard coal, very little smoke at start up, none wants its cruising. Except for start up no real sulfur odor either. 18 hour burns can be achieved in the good stoves. If your buying firewood anyways it would be comparable in btu's, probably more actually. Very even heat for many hours. Yes, I have a small back up coal stove 1930's from prewar Germany I run when it's around 0 outside. Just saying.
I personally can't stand the smell of coal burning. To me it is way worse than wood smoke
 
Keep in mind that those you are meeting with likely have no idea of this 20% moisture content rule and most normal non firewood geek people would find it pretty outrageous to measure moisture content in the first place.

Part of me would think it's best to just play dumb like literally 95% of other wood burners are. The knowledge of burning you would get from message boards like this is likely to go right over their heads.

Good point. Also, people don't usually work at the BOH because they like pollution. They are going to be either neutral or against woodburning. You are most likely to find a lifelong wood smoke hater! Agencies like that attract such people with such agendas. You would be wise to play dumb but say that you believe you are operating that stove as cleanly as possible and in full compliance with the law.

Go in and say what's the problem? Wait for them to tell you what you are doing that is illegal.
 
Good point. Also, people don't usually work at the BOH because they like pollution. They are going to be either neutral or against woodburning. You are most likely to find a lifelong wood smoke hater! Agencies like that attract such people with such agendas. You would be wise to play dumb but say that you believe you are operating that stove as cleanly as possible and in full compliance with the law.

Go in and say what's the problem? Wait for them to tell you what you are doing that is illegal.

It can be easy to assume the worst in people and get nothing unexpected when you go in planning to get a fight.

I have met some people who just want to help out or keep the peace. I would suggest genuinely going in with the intent to aim for a solution is where to start. Probably also inferring the person isn't an expert so don't make their case for them.
 
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Must be one hell of a meeting. I keep checking back in for an update, hopefully something amicable was worked out.
I know! Seems like he went in with a level head and willing to talk to these folks, so hopefully a good arrangement was met.
 
Such a civil world we live in. From the article about neighbors: "The men have never spoken to each other directly -- only through the Board of Health."


Calling public authorities is an excellent way to avoid conflict. Lots of people would rather fight than switch, or change.

If people suspect that a neighbor is breaking the law, they are entitled to call public authorities with a complaint as a first cut at a problem

Your obligation as a neighbor is to AVOID BREAKING THE LAW. If you are doing that on a regular basis, don't be surprised if someone calls the cops. Don't like it? Tough.
 
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This thread has kind of gotten me paranoid about smoking out my neighbors, only because lately my Mother in Law has been at my house during the day watching my 3 month old and she tries to keep a fire going. I've explained to her numerous times what she needs to do, that the stove is actually very easy to operate it but, you need to do just that....actually operate it.

Yesterday I came home to 2 big splits in the stove partially blackened with zero signs of existing fire, no heat to the stove top and hardly any on the flue. She smoldered logs and just let them die out. I imagine the smoke was dumping out of the chimney for a while. I told her to please not worry about trying to keep the stove going....I'd rather come home to it cold than a smoldered mess.


Personally, I'd be VERY grateful to your MIL for taking care of your children for you. Might be worthwhile to plan to bank the stove and let it go out when she is doing you that favor, and just use the central heating while she is there.
 
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Calling public authorities is an excellent way to avoid conflict. Lots of people would rather fight than switch, or change.

If people suspect that a neighbor is breaking the law, they are entitled to call public authorities with a complaint as a first cut at a problem

Your obligation as a neighbor is to AVOID BREAKING THE LAW. If you are doing that on a regular basis, don't be surprised if someone calls the cops. Don't like it? Tough.

I really disagree with all of this. So everyone should basically be living in an adult preschool telling on each other rather than talking to one another like adults?

I can’t imagine calling the cops or the authorities on a neighbor for something unless it was either really serious or it was something I had talked to them about numerous times and could not resolve on my own and it was really impeding my ability to live happily. I’m completely capable of having an adult conversation with another adult and expressing my needs. Why would I not do that first before calling the authorities? I like having good relationships with my neighbors and I guarantee you if I became that ass neighbor that called everyone for every code violation they made I would have no relationship with anyone in the neighborhood.

We also live in areas of the country where the point of view may be very different on this? This attitude you have would not fly at all where I am. In my opinion, the less I need to bring the government in to mess with my affairs or those of others, the better. People are generally capable of problem solving on their own.

My neighbors throw probably two parties a summer where they go past the time at night specified by my towns time code for noise. Not one person has ever called the cops on them. If you walk over or text/ call them and ask them to keep it down they do. Other than that, they are wonderful neighbors. I just close my windows and put on a noisemaker and sleep fine. It’s their property, they like to have a few parties a year, and they don’t abuse that. Can’t imagine calling the cops on them instead of just talking to them if it happened to bother me.


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I really disagree with all of this. So everyone should basically be living in an adult preschool telling on each other rather than talking to one another like adults?

I can’t imagine calling the cops or the authorities on a neighbor for something unless it was either really serious or it was something I had talked to them about numerous times and could not resolve on my own and it was really impeding my ability to live happily. I’m completely capable of having an adult conversation with another adult and expressing my needs. Why would I not do that first before calling the authorities? I like having good relationships with my neighbors and I guarantee you if I became that ass neighbor that called everyone for every code violation they made I would have no relationship with anyone in the neighborhood.

We also live in areas of the country where the point of view may be very different on this? This attitude you have would not fly at all where I am. In my opinion, the less I need to bring the government in to mess with my affairs or those of others, the better. People are generally capable of problem solving on their own.

My neighbors throw probably two parties a summer where they go past the time at night specified by my towns time code for noise. Not one person has ever called the cops on them. If you walk over or text/ call them and ask them to keep it down they do. Other than that, they are wonderful neighbors. I just close my windows and put on a noisemaker and sleep fine. It’s their property, they like to have a few parties a year, and they don’t abuse that. Can’t imagine calling the cops on them instead of just talking to them if it happened to bother me.


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I think it is an isolation or lack of community issue. One neighbor I talk to all the time and will help out. If I bring up something to I might be doing that would be a nuisance she just says she doesn't mind or it's none of her business. On the other side was an old couple that I swear they would stand at the window, complain at the hour I was snowblowing, and then occasionally tap on the window. I just would either smile and wave or pretend I couldn't hear them. Might have been they thought I was dumping snow on their property, but survey was done and it's my strip right next to my driveway. Unfortunately one of them went in the hospital, and guess who was snow blowing and clearing the stairs when he heard they might be coming home!

I try to be the helpful one, just hope that makes it a little easier for neighbors to know they can come talk to me. It's harder to hold a grudge against someone who you know and are friendly with than the guy you only see driving off to work in the morning.
 
My neighbors throw probably two parties a summer where they go past the time at night specified by my towns time code for noise. Not one person has ever called the cops on them.

Suppose they were holding their parties every week? Or five nights per week?

The wood stove may be smoking 24/7.
 
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