Need Some Help. Neighbor (Environmental Atty) Filed Complaint

Can everyone please be nice, I'm dying to know what happened with the OP before the mods shut this thread down......I already bit my tongue at one comment.

SpaceBus said:

The wife is at home and I think the low is going to be 3f tonight, so not that much warmer. The hospital stays pretty consistent. I've been watching the ice shifting on the Bangor river all day.

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. . . and yet you never stopped by my workplace to say hello while you were in town.

firefighterjake said:

. . . and yet you never stopped by my workplace to say hello while you were in town.

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Ha, I wish! They wouldn't let me leave my room until this morning. I'm finally back home in front of the stove the way things are supposed to be.

The suspense is killing me, I need to know what the outcome of the meeting was!

I'm going to assume that the OP hasn't posted an update because the Board of Health had him thrown in jail for burning wet wood.

bholler said:

So it's not ok for them to ignore the laws. But it's fine for you to ignore the laws and burn trash wood in a trash stove? Why are you special? You realize there may be neighbors bitching about your stove right

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That's right. If the government took action against me for operating my wood stove, I'd quit using it, junk the stove and put a plug in the chimney.

Could happen any time.

A few weeks ago I asked a city information bureau for a complete list of city ordinances affecting my property. After investigating, they couldn't provide that information. If you want to know you'd have to go through city ordinances trying to find those affecting your property, a job a lawyer might spend hours doing I would guess.

I'm just supposing that the city and/or county has laws similar to those quoted in this thread, but I don't really know. The only laws I do hear about are bans on burning non epa stoves during temperature inversion weather events ---which I adhere to.

blacktail said:

I'm going to assume that the OP hasn't posted an update because the Board of Health had him thrown in jail for burning wet wood.

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If he has a friend that's an attorney or has spoken to an attorney, the first advice he may receive is to cease posting about the case on social media.

This has been an interesting thread. Lots unfolded over the posts.

But, I think you all know the outcome of the meeting even if we never hear from rooki again.

I'll try to hit the highlights:

Guy smoulders oak that is too wet, in two expensive, high-end stoves.

Guy knows his wood is too wet. Doesn't have the space to store wood. So splits it into kindling in an unsuccessful effort to get heat. The cats can't handle all the smoke.

Guy is asked by his new neighbor, who lives 30 feet away, to cut it out. Tells his new neighbor to shove off. Said neighbor just happens to be environmental attorney.

Neighbor does a little legal research, then files complaint with health department.

Health department issues cease and desist order to stop polluting the residential environment.

Guy appeals to health department, imploring them to allow him to start smoking his neighbors out again, as no solution to the wet wood has been found.

My conclusion- This is the wrong house/ neighborhood to live in, to heat with wood.

Stay, and live without wood heat.

Or, move someplace with your two BK stoves, where your neighbor isn't 30' away, and you have appropriate space for storage and drying.

Suggestions that it's ok to smoke someone out with smouldering wood because they are new to the neighborhood are ridiculous.

Suggestions to hire a lawyer to fight it are even more ridiculous.

Simple problems, simple solutions.

ED 3000 said:

Simple problems, simple solutions.

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Great answer!

And, IMHO, one good solution.

As an aside: The OP might also look into or consider a pellet stove replacement. Can buy bags of pellets as needed to remove storage problems. Pellets often have less start up smoke. And overall, could be a solution. But that suggestion of mine is off the cuff and not fully researched for his area. So may be a 2 cent opinion not even worth a penny.

ED 3000 said:

This has been an interesting thread. Lots unfolded over the posts.

But, I think you all know the outcome of the meeting even if we never hear from rooki again.

I'll try to hit the highlights:

Guy smoulders oak that is too wet, in two expensive, high-end stoves.

Guy knows his wood is too wet. Doesn't have the space to store wood. So splits it into kindling in an unsuccessful effort to get heat. The cats can't handle all the smoke.

Guy is asked by his new neighbor, who lives 30 feet away, to cut it out. Tells his new neighbor the shove off. Said neighbor just happens to be environmental attorney.

Neighbor does a little legal research, then files complaint with health department.

Health department issues cease an desist order to stop polluting the residential environment.

Guy appeals to health department, imploring them to allow him to start smoking his neighbors out again, as no solution to the wet wood has been found.

My conclusion- This is the wrong house/ neighborhood to live in, to heat with wood.

Stay, and live without wood heat.

Or, move someplace with your two BK stoves, where your neighbor isn't 30' away, and you have appropriate space for storage and drying.

Suggestions that it's ok to smoke someone out with smouldering wood because they are new to the neighborhood are ridiculous.

Suggestions to hire a lawyer to fight it are even more ridiculous.

Simple problems, simple solutions.

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Or just buy a couple pallets of compressed wood logs for the time being. Simplest solution of all. Again, I find it hard to imagine that smoke coming out of the chimney for 30-40 minutes several times a day during the winter is causing severe hardship to the neighbor as I highly doubt he is even spending much time outside right now. Also, he did state that he told the neighbor he was willing to find a compromise. The neighbor was the one who told him to kick rocks when he said he was unwilling to stop burning completely as the neighbor asked. It sounds to me as though this neighbor is a pain in the ass.

There are so many compromises that could have been reached before the health department needed to be called. Clearly the guy isn't burning good wood and in a close knit neighborhood that's not great, but it doesn't sound like he was given the opportunity to right his ways (which he didn't think he needed to right because nobody ever complained). Keep in mind that most people are not aware that it is important to burn dry wood. NONE of my neighbors burn dry wood. They all think I'm weird for stockpiling wood. They all buy a couple of cords in October or November and burn it that winter. He came on here and became aware of the need for dry wood (as did I). He now has the ability to be a conscientious wood burner and I hope he'll be given that opportunity.

I don't get the feeling we're going to hear from him.

ED 3000 said:

My conclusion- This is the wrong house/ neighborhood to live in, to heat with wood.

Stay, and live without wood heat.

Or, move someplace with your two BK stoves, where your neighbor isn't 30' away, and you have appropriate space for storage and drying.

Suggestions that it's ok to smoke someone out with smouldering wood because they are new to the neighborhood are ridiculous.

Suggestions to hire a lawyer to fight it are even more ridiculous.

Simple problems, simple solutions.

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Unfortunately, I think you are correct.

Frankly, EPA stoves appear to have developed the cult following of users needed to operate these stoves.

Ordinary people buy wood stoves for ordinary reasons in ordinary neighborhoods. Stove and firewood dealers don't tell them they they are joining a cult and need to follow the rules of the cult in order to use their stoves successfully. Some of the rules include having big mounds of wood around their homes, covered with tarps, filling their garages with wood or having with homes for their firewood constructed as out buildings.

Some join the cult and become advocates of the rituals of worship implicit in EPA rules, and others get out and sell out.

I'm sure environmentalists and the EPA consider they have a victory every time someone gets out and sells out. They will aim to get the cult members who survive with the next round of rule changes ----or the one after that.

If EPA woodstoves are as good as those EPA gas can spouts, we're in serious trouble. Those stupid gas can spouts cause more fuel spills than my old pre-EPA gas can spouts. What a joke those are...

wooduser said:

Frankly, EPA stoves appear to have developed the cult following of users needed to operate these stoves.

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What a strange take.

The average user of any product ought to be expected to read the manual for a product they use never mind one that brings fire into your house. Most every manual I've read says to use wood with no more than 20% moisture.

So what's the big issue? Buy some wood (1-2 cords) and let it sit in the sun for a year before you use it. If you burn wood you were gonna have wood stacks anyway so no major change. I've known you have to season wood my whole life even for fireplace use and it's not like wood sheds didn't exist before EPA stoves because anyone with any sense knows wet wood burns poorly. Now I actually have a spec for it. And what's the benefit for all this "hard" work of seasoning wood? Cleaner air. In some cases (areas prone to issues) much cleaner.

Sure, we here like to talk about it and obsess a bit but that's not at all necessary to be reasonably successful. We get the people here that have problems and mostly never hear from the folks that don't. Pretty much like almost every interweb review out there.

wooduser said:

Frankly, EPA stoves appear to have developed the cult following of users needed to operate these stoves.

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jatoxico said:

What a strange take.

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No kidding...how dare they make us dry our wood...everybody knows how well water burns!

Guess I'm lucky that I never burned in a non EPA stove and really dont know the difference. Either way though I'd have years of wood stacked, the modern stove just gives me a better reason to.

Water is only Hydrogen and Oxygen. Bring those 2 together and add spark and BOOM. Shame we can't burn it instead of GAS. Or Wood. Person who invents that will be Rich!

Dataman said:

Water is only Hydrogen and Oxygen. Bring those 2 together and add spark and BOOM. Shame we can't burn it instead of GAS. Or Wood. Person who invents that will be Rich!

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There are videos on YouTube of wood-fired engines, including at least one old Ford truck.

wooduser said:

Unfortunately, I think you are correct.

Frankly, EPA stoves appear to have developed the cult following of users needed to operate these stoves.

Ordinary people buy wood stoves for ordinary reasons in ordinary neighborhoods. Stove and firewood dealers don't tell them they they are joining a cult and need to follow the rules of the cult in order to use their stoves successfully. Some of the rules include having big mounds of wood around their homes, covered with tarps, filling their garages with wood or having with homes for their firewood constructed as out buildings.

Some join the cult and become advocates of the rituals of worship implicit in EPA rules, and others get out and sell out.

I'm sure environmentalists and the EPA consider they have a victory every time someone gets out and sells out. They will aim to get the cult members who survive with the next round of rule changes ----or the one after that.

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Wow you're pretty jaded man! Are most people on here are cult members? I agree with what Jatoxico said.. strange take indeed. I don't see anything negative happening here. I don't see a profit motive of any sort as you would with a cult. Just education and discussion.

Also, having seasoned wood and the effort that goes with it has nothing to do with EPA stoves. I have a pre-epa stove and it can burn wet wood, but it sucks. I now store several years worth of wood so that I dont have to burn chitty wet wood.

If wood stoves are outlawed only outlaws will burn in them.

wooduser said:

I'm just supposing that the city and/or county has laws similar to those quoted in this thread, but I don't really know. The only laws I do hear about are bans on burning non epa stoves during temperature inversion weather events ---which I adhere to.

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You are in the same air control "district" that I am. We in Pierce County are currently under a stage 1 burn ban which means you can't burn in anything other than EPA certified woodstoves and pellet stoves and zero visible smoke after 15 minute startup. More common and frequent are stage 2 bans where all solid fuel burning is prohibited, even your backyard BBQ or pellet grill. These stage 2 bans even occurred last summer when wildfire smoke drifted in from wherever the fires were. The jerks that engage these bans live in a little downtown seattle office somewhere and are completely out of touch with air quality beyond the dirty city limits which is where they measure. Oh and violation is punishable with a 1000$ fine for the first offense.

As far as EPA vs. non-EPA stoves, it doesn't matter. They all can burn wet wood, they all can smoke, and neither will make a neighbor that hates wood burning happy about you doing it.

And yet you continue to live there?

paulnlee said:

And yet you continue to live there?

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It's a pretty great place to live most of the time. Golden handcuffs and kids in school keep me here now. 5 more years and I might be in the Midwest.

bholler said:

Buy good ones and they work better. I use no spills and personally would never use anything else. You really should try a good epa stove. You would quickly learn your fishers are terribly outdated

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I've heard the no-spills work really good, but I went the other route and bought a few EZ Pour replacement spouts.

I have no knowledge of EPA stoves, how they work, burn times, maintenance, replacement parts, do they require electricity, etc...

The absolute biggest factor is, will it out-perform my Fisher stove during a 3-5 week long power outage like the 1998 ice storm?