Electric heat, looking for opinions on Fireplace insert

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

Hi all,

First post here, stumbled across this forum doing some searching about fire place inserts. As the title states I have electric heat and a fireplace that I am thinking about getting an insert for.

First a little background...

A few years ago I purchased an 1800 sq ft Cape Cod in NE Indiana, that was built in the early 1970's. I guess a popular form of heat back then, in this area at least, was electric radiant CEILING heat, yuck. So that is my primary heating source; it is awful in my opinion. I've had some HVAC guys come out and quote me on things like mini-splits with heat pumps - because without any duct work in the house, the cost is through the roof think 20-30k and up. The mini split option isn't exactly cheap either. Anyways, I have a wood burning fireplace on the far north end of the house, of course the opposite end of the house as where we spend most of our time - other than when I am at work.

A few more details on the layout of the house, it's 1.5 story (I am not worried about heating the upstairs) - can continue to do that with electric when needed. The ceilings are 7.5ft, we have a ceiling fan in the kitchen and on in the dining room. The house is quite closed off, as you can tell by the attached jpeg.For additional reference the stairs are marked in green, and fire place in red.

So I guess my question(s) are:

Is a fireplace insert even going to help me, based off the layout of my house?

Keep in mind we spend most of the time on the South end of the house, in the LR/DR and obviously sleep in the bedroom. With the fireplace being on the North end, I don't see it being too effective in heating anything OTHER than that room it's in and maybe some of the kitchen.

If not is there any other options I might consider to make it work, short of tearing down some walls and changing the layout of the house?

Thanks for any advice, appreciate it in advance.

bholler · Jan 14, 2019

jimmylee123 said:
Hi all,

First post here, stumbled across this forum doing some searching about fire place inserts. As the title states I have electric heat and a fireplace that I am thinking about getting an insert for.

First a little background...

A few years ago I purchased an 1800 sq ft Cape Cod in NE Indiana, that was built in the early 1970's. I guess a popular form of heat back then, in this area at least, was electric radiant CEILING heat, yuck. So that is my primary heating source; it is awful in my opinion. I've had some HVAC guys come out and quote me on things like mini-splits with heat pumps - because without any duct work in the house, the cost is through the roof think 20-30k and up. The mini split option isn't exactly cheap either. Anyways, I have a wood burning fireplace on the far north end of the house, of course the opposite end of the house as where we spend most of our time - other than when I am at work.

A few more details on the layout of the house, it's 1.5 story (I am not worried about heating the upstairs) - can continue to do that with electric when needed. The ceilings are 7.5ft, we have a ceiling fan in the kitchen and on in the dining room. The house is quite closed off, as you can tell by the attached jpeg.For additional reference the stairs are marked in green, and fire place in red.

So I guess my question(s) are:

Is a fireplace insert even going to help me, based off the layout of my house?

Keep in mind we spend most of the time on the South end of the house, in the LR/DR and obviously sleep in the bedroom. With the fireplace being on the North end, I don't see it being too effective in heating anything OTHER than that room it's in and maybe some of the kitchen.

If not is there any other options I might consider to make it work, short of tearing down some walls and changing the layout of the house?
View attachment 238218

Thanks for any advice, appreciate it in advance.

An insert will help but the placement is not ideal you will have a hard time circulating the heat. What type of fireplace is it?

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

Brick, I am not sure if that helps or not, here is a pic

bholler · Jan 14, 2019

jimmylee123 said:
Brick, I am not sure if that helps or not, here is a pic View attachment 238220

Ok so it is a masonry fireplace not a prefab one. That means as long as it is built correctly an insert is an option

prezes13 · Jan 14, 2019

Would it be possible to place a freestanding stove in the LR?

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

prezes13 said:
Would it be possible to place a freestanding stove in the LR?

Umm, not really. The living room is really not that big and we'd like to keep what floor space we have.

NateB · Jan 14, 2019

I am not an expert. Here is what you will run into if you try to put an insert into a fireplace.
1.) you will need to insulate and put a liner into the chimney
2.) you will have to buy an insert that is not big enough for the space you are trying to heat
3.) you will never get the heat to where you want it, so you will still use your electric.
4.) you will wish you would have spent your money on a better solution.

I would recommend (if you are committed to the wood burning life style)
1.) pick a central location where you would like to have a wood stove.(beside the visual also consider you will have to carry a lot of wood there)
2.) pick a stove that is appealing.
3.) install the chimney and stove. Get it inspected if you do it your self.
4.) enjoy the warmth.

If you are not planning on staying there very long this might not be the best option, but I think spending money on the fireplace is a waste.

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

NateB said:
I am not an expert. Here is what you will run into if you try to put an insert into a fireplace.
1.) you will need to insulate and put a liner into the chimney
2.) you will have to buy an insert that is not big enough for the space you are trying to heat
3.) you will never get the heat to where you want it, so you will still use your electric.
4.) you will wish you would have spent your money on a better solution.

I would recommend (if you are committed to the wood burning life style)
1.) pick a central location where you would like to have a wood stove.(beside the visual also consider you will have to carry a lot of wood there)
2.) pick a stove that is appealing.
3.) install the chimney and stove. Get it inspected if you do it your self.
4.) enjoy the warmth.

If you are not planning on staying there very long this might not be the best option, but I think spending money on the fireplace is a waste.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I figured. I know nothing about the subject besides I HATE the heat we have. I guess the solution is to pass the problem on to the next sucker that comes along

. Not really, but I know I will never buy a house that has electric heat again.

jatoxico · Jan 14, 2019

I agree with putting the heat where you need it. You have a pretty extreme case and will likely have trouble getting the heat effectively all the way to the other side of the house especially if there are transoms across the openings which will trap the heat. You may be able to heat the kitchen by putting a box fan in the opening and blowing into the ofc.

begreen · Jan 14, 2019

jimmylee123 said:
Umm, not really. The living room is really not that big and we'd like to keep what floor space we have.

That is your best option for wood heating. The office space is too disconnected and closed off to share the heat very well. A high-end, mini-split for the LR/DR area would be the next best bet.

Woodsplitter67 · Jan 14, 2019

If your going to stick with the insert in the existing fireplace. You will need to widen the doors or entries into the kitchen to allow the heat out of the office. The wider the opening the easier the heat will flow out of that room and into the others. The more you open up the floor plan the easier the heat will move around.
Also any heat that you generate with your stove will bring down the consumption of electricity.
The key for you is to open up the 2 doors in the kitchen
A number of years ago i opened up my floor plan from my living room, kitchen, and dinning room. My stove now heats my entire home. Furnace never comes on. Because the heat travels freely through the areas..

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

Woodsplitter67 said:
If your going to stick with the insert in the existing fireplace. You will need to widen the doors or entries into the kitchen to allow the heat out of the office. The wider the opening the easier the heat will flow out of that room and into the others. The more you open up the floor plan the easier the heat will move around.
Also any heat that you generate with your stove will bring down the consumption of electricity.
The key for you is to open up the 2 doors in the kitchen
A number of years ago i opened up my floor plan from my living room, kitchen, and dinning room. My stove now heats my entire home. Furnace never comes on. Because the heat travels freely through the areas..

All appliances are electric here

Yeah, all the doors and the openings besides the two in the LR are standard 32" door openings. It would be possible to open the area up some, however, the washer and dryer sit in the closet area just above the door to my office. So don't have much wiggle room here. I guess I am just trying to get some opinions as to weather it is worth it or not. So far the consensus seems to be a resounding no. For what it's worth we have the exact same problem with cooling as well.

begreen · Jan 14, 2019

Is there a basement?

If cooling is also an issue then getting a good mini-split system installed can make a nice year-round difference and it will be much less expensive than running the resistance heating.

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

begreen said:
Is there a basement?

If cooling is also an issue then getting a good mini-split system installed can make a nice year-round difference and it will be much less expensive than running the resistance heating.

No basement

Cement slab and hard wood floors, heated ceilings = very cold feet. I did have a look at the mini-split route but even that was quite expensive, I thought. the quote was 9k for the heat pump, and 2 mini splits. Over 20k if I wanted to do a heat pump mini splits and an heat exchanger that would cover the back (top in the diagram) half of the house that you CAN get to via the attic and the two bedrooms upstairs. Seems I will either have to bite the bullet and pay the ~10k and hope for the best, or like I said earlier. Pawn the problem off on the next guy... I am thinking the latter option is best.

begreen · Jan 14, 2019

I'd agree if you are not in love with the house and neighborhood. That said, I moved the stove into our smallish livingroom 12 yrs ago and now we wouldn't have it any other way. It's nice to have the heat and fire view where the family congregates.

Pertzbro · Jan 14, 2019

got any pictures of your electric heat?

I have electric heat in my master bath on the top of the wall next to the ceiling. It's radiant heat - not convective like baseboard. I love it for the bathroom as it heats the floor, toilet, etc...

prezes13 · Jan 14, 2019

How about the kitchen? It looks like a big space and it is centrally located. I think you could try to make it work from your office but it would not be ideal and require a lot of work. Like other said widen the door openings, perhaps installing door transoms.

Woodsplitter67 · Jan 14, 2019

Do you have an attic above the office.. can you run flex duct and a large inline fan to pull the warm air out of the office and blow it into the living room

xman23 · Jan 14, 2019

Jimmy, I understand your frustration with your ceiling electric heat and a slab floor. But wood heat is a lifestyle change, that is not for everyone. Myself, and many here are part timers. Actually I have electric baseboard heat that works well for us. Very reliable for a part time cabin. Also have electronic thermostats in every room that keep the temp within 1 degree. Like any heat, wood heat works best in well insulated houses.

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

begreen said:
I'd agree if you are not in love with the house and neighborhood. That said, I moved the stove into our smallish livingroom 12 yrs ago and now we wouldn't have it any other way. It's nice to have the heat and fire view where the family congregates.

Yeah - I am really not. But I figured a insert would be a fairly economical way for me to help reduce some of the winter expense.

Pertzbro said:
got any pictures of your electric heat?

I have electric heat in my master bath on the top of the wall next to the ceiling. It's radiant heat - not convective like baseboard. I love it for the bathroom as it heats the floor, toilet, etc...

For our bathrooms, I agree, it is nice. But these are much smaller rooms.

prezes13 said:
How about the kitchen? It looks like a big space and it is centrally located. I think you could try to make it work from your office but it would not be ideal and require a lot of work. Like other said widen the door openings, perhaps installing door transoms.

That's true, that's where what I call, the Hillbilly Central Air is: that is a large 240v big ol SOB just cut right into the wall, hanging out the back of the house - LOL. If door transoms are what I think they are, that's unlikely to be done in my house. There is maybe 10" above the door, minus any headers. That would look... weird to me.

Woodsplitter67 said:
Do you have an attic above the office.. can you run flex duct and a large inline fan to pull the warm air out of the office and blow it into the living room

YES! And I had actually thought of this, I have approx 3-4' from the outside wall of my house that is accessible in what would be the top of the diagram. I had thought of doing that, a push-pull fan configuration. Might work.

xman23 said:
Jimmy, I understand your frustration with your ceiling electric heat and a slab floor. But wood heat is a lifestyle change, that is not for everyone. Myself, and many here are part timers. Actually I have electric baseboard heat that works well for us. Very reliable for a part time cabin. Also have electronic thermostats in every room that keep the temp within 1 degree. Like any heat, wood heat works best in well insulated houses.

Yeah, I understand that. I should have actually stated, that this is not in any way meant to be a full solution. Just a way to help out on those extra cold days, and if it does good enough to be more of a 60/40 solution, possibly 70/30. Electric bill is about 3-400 every month in the winter. That's too much money if you ask me.

To me it just doesn't seem like I would get enough bang for my buck, assuming I installed the "unit" myself. Which seem to cost about 2k or so, seems I could, in my mind, make that money back relatively quicker and get some bonus comfort out of it. However, with the layout of my house. Just doesn't seem like any solution I have been presented is ever actually a solution, more like a band-aid. Whether mini splits or fireplace insert, I still basically run into the same problems, that is some areas not getting heated/cooled nearly as well as others. So that's basically why I was asking about this "cheaper" option, that was hopefully going to provide as good or better results than the minisplits (minus cooling of course)

TWilk117 · Jan 14, 2019

Jimmy, A rule of thumb in the marine world for heating boat interiors is 15 x volume of space needs heating = amount of btu’s needed. x 20 (instead of 15) if the space is drafty.
If you could find a spot more central in the house/ living space to put a free standing stove, it wouldn’t necessarily have to be a really big one to make a significant difference.

begreen · Jan 14, 2019

jimmylee123 said:
YES! And I had actually thought of this, I have approx 3-4' from the outside wall of my house that is accessible in what would be the top of the diagram. I had thought of doing that, a push-pull fan configuration. Might work.

If you try that route use very well insulated duct. The heat loss will still be high. It's easier to move cool air than warm air. A better approach would be to do the opposite, pull cooler air from the far end of the house and blow it into the office area with the insert. That will pull warm air through the house to replace the displaced cooler air.

A self-installed insulated liner will probably run about $900. A decent medium sized insert can be found for around $1100 so your budget is not far off as long as there aren't complications.

begreen · Jan 14, 2019

Is the ceiling heat embedded in the sheetrock? If so one needs to be exceptionally careful where one cuts and nails.

jimmylee123 · Jan 14, 2019

TWilk117 said:
Jimmy, A rule of thumb in the marine world for heating boat interiors is 15 x volume of space needs heating = amount of btu’s needed. x 20 (instead of 15) if the space is drafty.
If you could find a spot more central in the house/ living space to put a free standing stove, it wouldn’t necessarily have to be a really big one to make a significant difference.

Wow I thought a drafty house was bad! What do they call a drafty boat? Sunken would be my guess. Better account for x 22 in my case

I have the original wood windows, not in too bad of shape either, still on my house. The storm windows could definitely use replaced though.

begreen said:
Is the ceiling heat embedded in the sheetrock? If so one needs to be exceptionally careful where one cuts and nails.

That is indeed the problem there. There is one room I MIGHT be able to see the coils, that's above my office. Anything else I definitely can't see. That is after I dig out the insulation, there is around 11" above all rooms in the attic, about 8" above the garage. So if the coils are in the drywall themselves I am definitely screwed.

TWilk117 · Jan 14, 2019

I have original windows and doors too from 1950. Getting them reglazed will make a difference. Also there are films you can put over the old glass to help hold heat in.

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