Hard water in home? Fails test?

Jotel me this · Jan 17, 2019

I know for a fact my well water has high levels of calcium. My 1 year old water heater is filled with one inch flakes of hardened calcium deposits (dont have a water softener yet).

Online, it says you can take a bottle of water, fill it with dish soap, and shake it. If it doesnt form foamy suds it means you have hard water.

So.. i did this and the water bottle was filled with white fluffy suds. So.. how can i have hard water from calcium yet it completely fails this 'bottle with soap shaking' test??

would adding a water softener even help my hot water tank? its like i have hard/soft water.. which makes no sense :eek:

Highbeam · Jan 17, 2019

Test the water. For real. Not this bogus soap test. You need to know how hard it is in order to treat it.

velvetfoot · Jan 17, 2019

I bought some test strips on line.

Jotel me this · Jan 17, 2019

Highbeam said:
Test the water. For real. Not this bogus soap test. You need to know how hard it is in order to treat it.

velvetfoot said:
I bought some test strips on line.

Spoken like true geniuses. Will do. Do you think the soap test doesnt work? i dont get how these videos can be made by actual companies and be fake :eek:

Jotel me this · Jan 17, 2019

I only want to soften the hot water. Would anyone know if the water softener (yellow) should be attached before or after the check valve (pink circle). Im thinking after (green line). Im trying to figure out in a power outage if water would still flow freely through the water softener. do they have physical pumps? or does the water just flow through it naturally using the already existing water pressure? or.. im wondering are their valves in the water softener which close during a power outage??

johneh · Jan 17, 2019

I have very hard water and have used a water softener for 40 years
I am on a well there is no check valve in my system and have never
had a back flow problem . The only water I do not soften is drinking
and cooking water in the kitchen . It is a signal outlet in the kitchen
all other water is softened (cold and hot for laundry ,dishes , and baths
Do not like the dry itchy skin from hard water or having to replace coffee
maker and kettle every year . I also get over 15 years to a electric water heater
Can see no reason for a check valve Just my 2 cents worth

velvetfoot · Jan 17, 2019

johneh said:
I have very hard water and have used a water softener for 40 years
I am on a well there is no check valve in my system and have never
had a back flow problem . The only water I do not soften is drinking
and cooking water in the kitchen . It is a signal outlet in the kitchen
all other water is softened (cold and hot for laundry ,dishes , and baths
Do not like the dry itchy skin from hard water or having to replace coffee
maker and kettle every year . I also get over 15 years to a electric water heater
Can see no reason for a check valve Just my 2 cents worth

I have the same setup.

tadmaz · Jan 17, 2019

I just got a Fleck 5600SXT. Pretty cool. Just get a water softener. If for some reason there wouldn't be any flow during an outage (assuming your well pump is on generator), you can move the bypass valve behind the softener.

You need to buy Hach 5-B water hardness testing kit. It's $20 on amazon. It will last your lifetime for testing water for hardness.

Jotel me this · Jan 17, 2019

johneh said:
I have very hard water and have used a water softener for 40 years
I am on a well there is no check valve in my system and have never
had a back flow problem . The only water I do not soften is drinking
and cooking water in the kitchen . It is a signal outlet in the kitchen
all other water is softened (cold and hot for laundry ,dishes , and baths
Do not like the dry itchy skin from hard water or having to replace coffee
maker and kettle every year . I also get over 15 years to a electric water heater
Can see no reason for a check valve Just my 2 cents worth

How do you know youve never had a back flow problem though? You cant see through the pipes.

velvetfoot said:
I have the same setup.

How can you not have a check valve on your system? it holds the pressure in the tank when the well pump stops.

Not only that but if you ever have a reverse in pressure and your system above ground becomes contaminated for whatever reason, the water will back-flow into your underground reservoir of water.

velvetfoot · Jan 17, 2019

I imagine there's a valve at pump in the well.
I hope never get to see it, but I guess that was the kiss of death right there.

My wife likes a separate spigot for her plants, the cat, and her sensitive constitution. I like plenty of salt on my food.
Again, the kiss of death right there.

Call the Culligan man, he'll set you up.

johneh · Jan 17, 2019

Jotel me this said:
How can you not have a check valve on your system? it holds the pressure in the tank when the well pump stops.

Not only that but if you ever have a reverse in pressure and your system above ground becomes contaminated for whatever reason, the water will back-flow into your underground reservoir of water.

Back flow valve is part of the pump (in ground)
Or if you do not have an in ground pump it is called a FOOT valve
if it fails you know because your pump will run all the time or
cycle very quickly all the time

blades · Jan 17, 2019

your well pump has a check valve ahead of it on the intake ( foot valve i believe is the name). you can add another ahead of the pressure tank if you so desire.

af2018 · Jan 17, 2019

Most people use check valves because laws require it and yet people who write the laws don't know what they are talking about. As long as you have a check valve in the pump you don't need that second one.

af2018 · Jan 17, 2019

velvetfoot said:
I imagine there's a valve at pump in the well.
I hope never get to see it, but I guess that was the kiss of death right there.

My wife likes a separate spigot for her plants, the cat, and her sensitive constitution. I like plenty of salt on my food.
Again, the kiss of death right there.

Call the Culligan man, he'll set you up.

johneh said:
Back flow valve is part of the pump (in ground)
Or if you do not have an in ground pump it is called a FOOT valve
if it fails you know because your pump will run all the time or
cycle very quickly all the time

Dont submersibles only have check valves in them? I thought above ground jet pumps don't have a check valve installed.

johneh · Jan 17, 2019

af2018 said:
Dont submersibles only have check valves in them? I thought above ground jet pumps don't have a check valve installed.

A check valve and a back flow preventer are the same thing with a different name
A jet pump uses a foot valve
In both cases they hold pressure in the whole pressure system from the bottom
of the well to the faucet

af2018 · Jan 17, 2019

johneh said:
A check valve and a back flow preventer are the same thing with a different name
A jet pump uses a foot valve
In both cases they hold pressure in the whole pressure system from the bottom
of the well to the faucet

So if he removed the check valve from his drawing and the foot valve is old, stuck, broken, what would be the symptoms? constantly running pump? not running at all?

or would he already know regardless? it looks like his check valve is located far away from his well.
I have a similar situation.

steve62 · Jan 17, 2019

Normally there is a check valve right at the pump so the line into the well does not drain. Well side of pump, also a foot valve at bottom of well or in my case in the lake.

af2018 · Jan 17, 2019

steve62 said:
Normally there is a check valve right at the pump so the line into the well does not drain. Well side of pump, also a foot valve at bottom of well or in my case in the lake.

Thanks. So are you saying there should be a foot valve and a check valve? I thought it was said above that only the foot valve is needed

steve62 · Jan 17, 2019

af2018 said:
So if he removed the check valve from his drawing and the foot valve is old, stuck, broken, what would be the symptoms? constantly running pump? not running at all?

or would he already know regardless? it looks like his check valve is located far away from his well.
I have a similar situation.

If the check valve or foot valve was not working the pump would lose prime. The pump would have to refill the line before water would return. Some pumps are not capable of self priming and would run until they burned out.

af2018 · Jan 17, 2019

steve62 said:
If the check valve or foot valve was not working the pump would lose prime. The pump would have to refill the line before water would return. Some pumps are not capable of self priming and would run until they burned out.

I feel like i should take my check valve out just to see if my foot valve is working !!!

steve62 · Jan 17, 2019

af2018 said:
Thanks. So are you saying there should be a foot valve and a check valve? I thought it was said above that only the foot valve is needed

Depends on the setup but yes I would always install foot valve and check valve. Can get expensive if you lose prime. Pumps are not cheap

steve62 · Jan 17, 2019

af2018 said:
I feel like i should take my check valve out just to see if my foot valve is working

Depending on the pump and setup if you lose prime it can be a groan to prime the line. I have 180' line running into my lake. If I lose prime it can take a few hours to fix it.

johneh · Jan 17, 2019

In ground pumps prime themselves Because they are at the bottom of your well
and in the water
Jet pumps - Shallow well use a foot valve and have 1 line to the pump
Deep wells use what is called an injector and have 2 lines to the pump
The injector acts as a foot valve
In my forty years of having a well I have never replaced a foot valve and
have never seen an inline check valve after the pressure tank a shut off valve yes
A well system is a closed system so it can hold pressure

velvetfoot · Jan 17, 2019

My well is 400+ feet deep. Hence my lack of desire to ever check out that valve.
Deep well pumps probably have a certain life span.
Again, I probably jinxed it just by talking about it.

johneh · Jan 17, 2019

400 ft. what kind of pump are you using ?

Hard water in home? Fails test?

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