RE: Plumbing advice needed

firefighterjake · Jan 20, 2019

I am not a plumber.

In fact, it's number one on my list of home repairs/renovation that I hate since it seems as though either my work likes like a pre-schooler put the pipes together or it looks great . . . but leaks.

So here's my question . . .

Can I use flexible rubber couplings like this . . .

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Fernco-3-in-x-3-46-in-dia-Flexible-PVC-Coupling-Fittings/1000075327

. . . in place of standard, hard PVC couplings to join 3 inch pipe which connects to a T fitting for a toilet?

I ask since I suspect using a standard PVC coupling will be tough due to the inflexibility and access.

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If you're still reading this and so inclined . . . could I use a flexible rubber T in place of a standard PVC T for use with a toilet or is this for another purpose?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Fernco-3-in-x-3-40-in-x-3-40-in-dia-Flexible-PVC-Tee-Fittings/1000075381

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And if you're still reading this long thread this is what happened to me about a week or so ago . . .

My latest project started out innocently enough with my wife asking me to do a thorough cleaning of the upstairs toilet as we had some hard water stains. Figure on maybe a 5-10 minute job.

However, while cleaning the toilet I discovered a hairline crack in the bowl above the water line. Further investigation showed that the crack went all the way through as there was evidence of a mineral line seeping from the crack. No huge leak or water or the floor, but I figured I should replace the toilet. Figure on a half hour or so job to remove the old toilet and put new toilet in place, right? Wrong.

My wife reminded me that the last time we installed the toilet the old toilet flange was bent and troublesome so I opted to replace the flange. YouTube videos made the work look easy enough . . . make a few cuts and then chisel out the pieces. Figure on half an hour to 45 minute . . . only 20 minutes on the YouTube video, but you know how that goes.

1 1/2 hours later I had a pile of plastic pieces with none larger than a marble, a fitting with a huge chunk missing and a small leak . . . .

Looks like I now have to replace some pipe . . . which means removing some tile and plywood . . . or drywall. Grrrr . . .

I think there's some moral here . . . but I have no idea of what it is. All I know is things just kept escalating.

greg13 · Jan 20, 2019

Fernco fittings should be fine. FYI some areas require ABS for waste pipe not PVC so if you are going to have to get an inspection check codes in your area first.

johneh · Jan 20, 2019

firefighterjake said:
And if you're still reading this long thread this is what happened to me about a week or so ago . . .

My latest project started out innocently enough with my wife asking me to do a thorough cleaning of the upstairs toilet as we had some hard water stains. Figure on maybe a 5-10 minute job.

However, while cleaning the toilet I discovered a hairline crack in the bowl above the water line. Further investigation showed that the crack went all the way through as there was evidence of a mineral line seeping from the crack. No huge leak or water or the floor, but I figured I should replace the toilet. Figure on a half hour or so job to remove the old toilet and put new toilet in place, right? Wrong.

My wife reminded me that the last time we installed the toilet the old toilet flange was bent and troublesome so I opted to replace the flange. YouTube videos made the work look easy enough . . . make a few cuts and then chisel out the pieces. Figure on half an hour to 45 minute . . . only 20 minutes on the YouTube video, but you know how that goes.

1 1/2 hours later I had a pile of plastic pieces with none larger than a marble, a fitting with a huge chunk missing and a small leak . . . .

Looks like I now have to replace some pipe . . . which means removing some tile and plywood . . . or drywall. Grrrr . . .

I think there's some moral here . . . but I have no idea of what it is. All I know is things just kept escalating.

Been there done that one 300$ toilet replacement turned into a 7000$
bathroom overhaul new waste pipe new 3/4 copper hot and cold water pipe
new one peace tub and shower new floor new vanity and double sinks
new vanity top . Oh buy the way a flexible rubber couplings works just fine

xman23 · Jan 20, 2019

I'm like you plumbing when I have to, and a lot of trips to HD. I don't think I would put rubber coupling with a hose clamp under the floor. The bowl puts a lot of stress on everything. Supporting the flange is key.

vinny11950 · Jan 20, 2019

If the coupling was exposed, like basement access, I would say yes, you can use them (I have a few in my basement). But I think they (code people) don't want you to use them inside the walls and floors because they are not considered as durable. Check you building department.

But if you want to try it as a temporary fix, you should be fine, they will probably last a long time.

festerw · Jan 20, 2019

Would something like this work? Hopefully save you from tearing anything apart.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/parts-and-repair/flanges/4236717

vinny11950 · Jan 20, 2019

Also, for the toilet you would need a long sweep wye fitting instead of a tee, if the tee is on its back.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/moving-closet-flange-sanitary-t-or-wye.34718/

firefighterjake · Jan 21, 2019

festerw said:
Would something like this work? Hopefully save you from tearing anything apart.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/parts-and-repair/flanges/4236717

Already torn apart . . . the way it was built I would have had to tear apart stuff regardless.

firefighterjake · Jan 21, 2019

So in terms of the rubber couplings . . . looks like two folks are saying they are fine, one person is saying not to use it (not sure if he meant the coupling or just the T) and one vote for OK to use in exposed areas, but not within floors?

zrock · Jan 21, 2019

Since you have already opened up the floor/wall why not just cut the pipe back and replace the damaged sections? If you can fit a rubber coupling you should be able to get a glued fitting in place?

peakbagger · Jan 21, 2019

I think its a local code issue, call the building inspector. In commercial I see it frequently. I have had one on my exposed main sewer run in my basement since 1987. It has stainless steel backing mesh. Plastic sewer piping is noisy so cast iron is frequently used as its a lot quieter. In the old days they poured the lead with joints but all I see now is cast iron pipes and fittings connected with Fernco type couplings and in commercial I see them covered up with drywall.

Note they make a nice alternative to standard wax ring for toilet.

firefighterjake · Jan 21, 2019

zrock said:
Since you have already opened up the floor/wall why not just cut the pipe back and replace the damaged sections? If you can fit a rubber coupling you should be able to get a glued fitting in place?

I'm thinking it might be a challenge with the lack of flexibility. I would prefer a glued fitting vs. rubber fitting if I had my druthers to be honest. Just inquiring to find out if the rubber fitting is a viable alternative if needed.

saewoody · Jan 21, 2019

I think you could do the rubber fitting if needed. When we did the addition on our house the plumbers had to tie into the existing cast iron main stack. They did this by cutting a section out, replacing it with pvc, and using a rubber furnco on each end of that. There are three different toilets that flow through this main stack, so it must be ok. However, this area is accessible in the basement.

For what you are doing, it seems like you should be able to glue a fitting in place. To tighten the clamp on the fitting seems like it could be more difficult than gluing a piece. A picture would help though. Best of luck.

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EatenByLimestone · Jan 21, 2019

I joined 2 pvc pipes below my cabin toilet with a fernco. It was all good until the coupling slipped off for some reason. Luckily it was over sand. I left the tp to dissolve naturally. It's still there, same coupler and everything. It hasn't slipped off since I repaired it.

blades · Jan 21, 2019

iirc cast iton 4" fittings were stuffed with oakum first then the lead was poured on top.. other wise the lead would find it's way through the joint creating even more hassels. i have used rubber couplings betweencast or copper and plastic but only in areas readily accessable.

Wooden Head · Jan 22, 2019

I have bought flexible PVC pipe to use in various areas where it was difficult to make a jointed connection. The flex pipe is a glued connection. I found it a Menards.

brenndatomu · Jan 22, 2019

After a quick check, it appears that some places allow Ferncos to be used in a wall, some don't. (by code)
If it were me, I'd want to go a bit overkill here...I'd use one of these, or something similar. They are made for lines that get buried, but would work well in this application too, IMO. Any place that carries the Ferco brand should either have them, or be able to order them. Many supply houses stock them.
https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/strong-back-rc-couplings

vwmike · Jan 23, 2019

The only time I've seen a furnco fail in a wall is when a rat chewed through one on a shower line in a old lodge.

blades · Jan 24, 2019

There in is the one problem with plastics- Rodents-

peakbagger · Jan 24, 2019

My fernco that has been in place for close to 30 years has a stainless steel mesh screen over entire outside. Its clamped right in place so the only way the screen gets removed is to remove the fitting. No worry about rodents.

firefighterjake · Jan 27, 2019

The saga has ended . . .and more importantly when I get up at 1 a.m. to pee I only have to walk 20 feet vs. walk downstairs and halfway across the house to use the bathroom . . .and in the process trip over the dog or eight cats who have come out to see what I am doing up at 1 a.m.

Ended up hiring a buddy/contractor to come by and help with the plumbing. Ended up using one hard coupling, but had to use a Fernco rubber coupling due to the tight space. He assured me that he has used these before for these exact situations (putting in plumbing in middle of an existing system) and has yet to have one fail . . . works for me.

Thanks for everyone's advice . . . I shall think of you all when I pee tonight . . . on second thought . . . probably not.

EatenByLimestone · Jan 27, 2019

zrock · Jan 28, 2019

haha..
Nothing wrong with the rubber fittings.. I set up modular homes in our modular park and i use them for the house to ground fitting. Have had way less issues since using them. If something plugs up i can just pull the fitting and look down the pipe and see where the issue is.

RE: Plumbing advice needed

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