New house & Sirocco 30

maple1 · Feb 20, 2019

wooduser said:
Here's a link that gets to the issue I was discussing:

The fuel that generates heat within a wood burning stove is obviously firewood. Wood burning stoves are often less efficient when it comes to an equal balance of fuel to heat release because the outside of these types of stoves don’t typically have an efficient heat exchanger. A heat exchanger is a piece of the equipment on the stove that helps transfer heat from the stove to the rest of the room. Heat exchangers on wood burning stoves don’t have the surface area for the proper extraction and distribution of heat relative to the amount of fuel used to generate the heat. Wood stoves are much more combustion efficient then they are heat transfer efficient.

https://www.highschimney.com/heat-efficiency-wood-burning-stoves-gas-stoves/

I suggest that a fan directing room air against the hot combustion chamber improves the ability to extract heat from a wood stove, especially when it's running hot. I don;t see that it would matter whether the air was directed against the hot combustion chamber at the front or the back of the stove.

A fan across the front might pull heat off the stove, sure. But it wouldn't do it as well as a factory fan kit. Much bigger HX area drawing from the back & top, than just the front.

Woody Stover · Feb 20, 2019

wooduser said:
I don't see that it matters whether you blow air from the front or the back.

Yeah, but a lot of convection stoves, including the Sirocco, channel blower air over the back and top, with a more focused flow. And I wouldn't want to be walking around a fan on the floor.

rybern said:
$300 seems like a lot but I can't find a cheaper place to purchase from. We are doing a corner install. I located the center of the chimney at 19" off each wall (1" greater than minimum)...Being a corner install, would it still be fairly easy to install the fan kit after the fact?

My brother got a motor online and fabbed up a mount for his Regency F2400. I don't know if it was the same motor, I'll ask him what he did. Maybe someone here could get you the numbers off the OEM motor, and you could get that, or one with similar specs?
I think you will have room to install the stock fan, or you can always slide the stove out...

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

Woody Stover said:
Yeah, but a lot of convection stoves, including the Sirocco, channel blower air over the back and top, with a more focused flow. And I wouldn't want to be walking around a fan on the floor.

Only with stack gas temperatures of 600-700 degrees might I bother to switch the fan speed to medium. It's quite easy to strip away heat from the stove with the airflow I use. So that's not an issue in my experience.

Of course, the fan takes up room on the floor. If you think that might be a nuisance to you, choose another solution.

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

bholler said:
Never mind I don't know why I bother

Sorry Bholler, my actual experience with this arrangement outweighs your claims for me. And you are unable to make a convincing logical case and scarcely bother to try to do so. You mainly want me to accept your expertise even when that contradicts my own experience. That's not good enough for me.

MissMac · Feb 20, 2019

I have the Sirocco 30.1 and got the fans with the stove. I pretty much always have the fans running on a low setting during the winter and find that it makes a big difference in keeping the whole house heated when it's cooler than about -10*C.

When it's really cold out, being able to blast the fans for an hour helps bring the house temp up much more quickly than without the fans. If I were to do it all over again, I'd get the fans again. Hope this helps.

begreen · Feb 20, 2019

In milder weather we don't use the blower. The stove convects well in our open floor plan. But in colder weather the blower makes a notable difference in circulating heat to peripheral locations. With the blower running the extremities are brought up to a more comfortable temperature. The blower is also helpful in lowering stove top temps quickly if it gets too hot.

bholler · Feb 20, 2019

wooduser said:
Sorry Bholler, my actual experience with this arrangement outweighs your claims for me. And you are unable to make a convincing logical case and scarcely bother to try to do so. You mainly want me to accept your expertise even when that contradicts my own experience. That's not good enough for me.

Ok but my actual experience is with a modern shielded stove that was run the first year without the fan kit with a box fan blowing over it then with the fan kit installed. I think that is pretty applicable experience.

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

bholler said:
I think that is pretty applicable experience.

I agree. So what was your experience?

You'll note that my own experience is that a box fan blowing on the front of my stove proved to be effective in cooling off the hot combustion chamber ----effective enough that I don't use the fan if the stove is below 400 degrees or so, because it cools off the stove too much. From that I have concluded that the fan arrangement I have is ample to perform the function of extracting heat from the combustion chamber, and is highly functional in doing that when the stove is at temperatures of 400-700 degrees stack temperature.

And at the same time it does an effective job of breaking up stratified room temperatures.

What more should I want or expect?

And I note that you took the opportunity to try out a box fan at low cost before deciding to move on to a dedicated stove fan. That's something a frugal person may well decide to try. If the box fan doesn't prove satisfactory and you want to go on to the dedicated stove fan, you've tried the low cost solution first, which some might find satisfactory.

After all, I have no objection to stove mounted fans. I simply think a box fan might prove to be satisfactory for some people like myself. In a third of a century of stove use, I've never felt a need or desire to install a stove mounted fan. .

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

begreen said:
In milder weather we don't use the blower. The stove convects well in our open floor plan. But in colder weather the blower makes a notable difference in circulating heat to peripheral locations. With the blower running the extremities are brought up to a more comfortable temperature. The blower is also helpful in lowering stove top temps quickly if it gets too hot.

That is exactly my experience too. From that I conclude that using either a box fan or a built in stove fan can perform much the same functions.

It comes down to a matter of personal choice. Some may prefer the low cost and added flexibility of a box fan. Others may decide that a box fan is a cheesy appearance in their living room that they don;t like.

But either option seems to perform the essential functions you want a fan for with a stove.

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

maple1 said:
A fan across the front might pull heat off the stove, sure. But it wouldn't do it as well as a factory fan kit. Much bigger HX area drawing from the back & top, than just the front.

Yes, but mostly I operate my box fan on a low speed with stack temperatures of 400-600 degrees. Turning the fan speed higher would cool off the stove too much, killing off the combustion process. So I conclude that my box fan is quite capable of extracting all the heat you wish from the stove, and has ample reserves of power to extract MORE heat than you'd want to from the stove.

So as a practical matter, both fans are fully capable of doing the desired task. What more do you want or need? I ask that as a serious question.

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

Just to be clear----

I have a non epa rated steel stove. I measure the stack temperatures I report with a probe thermometer mounted in the 6" vent pipe three feet above the stove. I've been operating this stove since I installed it in 1987.

I live in Seattle, a relatively temperate climate.

With stack temperatures 400 degrees F and below, I generally don't operate the fan, because it cools off the stove too much, tending to kill off the combustion process.

With stack temperatures of 400-600 degrees, I operate the box fan on the low speed.

With stack temperatures of 600-700 degrees, I may operate the fan on low, but I'm more likely to operate it on the medium speed.

As a practical matter I don't use the available high speed of the fan, since that would again extract too much heat for stable operation of the stove. Occasionally I'll use the high speed if the stove is tending to get 700 degrees or above and I want it to cool off. Operating the fan speed on high thus tends to overcool the stove and reduce the rate of combustion and lower the stack temperature.

mcdougy · Feb 20, 2019

Haters gonna hate, box fan lovers gonna use em????...I enjoy writing letters and paying postage, using a axe to cut trees and putting endless armfulls of wood into my non epa stove with a furnace fan blowing from behind.
Who has more fun than people?

bholler · Feb 20, 2019

wooduser said:
I agree. So what was your experience?

You'll note that my own experience is that a box fan blowing on the front of my stove proved to be effective in cooling off the hot combustion chamber ----effective enough that I don't use the fan if the stove is below 400 degrees or so, because it cools off the stove too much. From that I have concluded that the fan arrangement I have is ample to perform the function of extracting heat from the combustion chamber, and is highly functional in doing that when the stove is at temperatures of 400-700 degrees stack temperature.

And at the same time it does an effective job of breaking up stratified room temperatures.

What more should I want or expect?

And I note that you took the opportunity to try out a box fan at low cost before deciding to move on to a dedicated stove fan. That's something a frugal person may well decide to try. If the box fan doesn't prove satisfactory and you want to go on to the dedicated stove fan, you've tried the low cost solution first, which some might find satisfactory.

After all, I have no objection to stove mounted fans. I simply think a box fan might prove to be satisfactory for some people like myself. In a third of a century of stove use, I've never felt a need or desire to install a stove mounted fan. .

As I said before every time you bring this up. The built-in fan increases heat output much more than the box fan ever did. I use the fan to control heat output as much as the air control. Box fans are very helpful with circulating heat around the house but not at extracting heat from a shielded stove like the bk in question. I have also replaced all of the box fans with ductwork and booster fans used to pull cool air from the cooler rooms and dump it in the room with the stove. They work better and look much better than a bunch of box fans. When combined with a vent through the wall or door it all means bedroom doors can be shut.

wooduser · Feb 20, 2019

bholler said:
. Box fans are very helpful with circulating heat around the house but not at extracting heat from a shielded stove like the bk in question.

Perhaps boc fans don't work effectively with your stove. They work fine with mine. That suggests to me that people interested can consider using a box fan first, and go on to a stove mounted fan if that isn't satisfactory.

<< I have also replaced all of the box fans with ductwork and booster fans used to pull cool air from the cooler rooms and dump it in the room with the stove. They work better and look much better than a bunch of box fans. When combined with a vent through the wall or door it all means bedroom doors can be shut.

I have no argument with what works for you. A box fan in the hallway works fine for me in heating remote bedrooms, even though not generously.

I simply suggest that for those who don't have a stove mounted fan but wish to consider what a fan might do for them, that they consider experimenting a with a box fan. That may be all they need, or it may give people an idea of what a fan can do for them.

If they wish to buy a box fan to use, I certainly have no objection to that.

However, I would avoid overselling a stove mounted fan when a box fan may be all they need.

bholler · Feb 20, 2019

wooduser said:
Perhaps boc fans don't work effectively with your stove. They work fine with mine. That suggests to me that people interested can consider using a box fan first, and go on to a stove mounted fan if that isn't satisfactory.

<< I have also replaced all of the box fans with ductwork and booster fans used to pull cool air from the cooler rooms and dump it in the room with the stove. They work better and look much better than a bunch of box fans. When combined with a vent through the wall or door it all means bedroom doors can be shut.

I have no argument with what works for you. A box fan in the hallway works fine for me in heating remote bedrooms, even though not generously.

I simply suggest that for those who don't have a stove mounted fan but wish to consider what a fan might do for them, that they consider experimenting a with a box fan. That may be all they need, or it may give people an idea of what a fan can do for them.

If they wish to buy a box fan to use, I certainly have no objection to that.

However, I would avoid overselling a stove mounted fan when a box fan may be all they need.

Or you could conclude that with an unshielded stove like yours a box fan can be beneficial. But on a shielded stove like my regency or the bk in question a box fan is not nearly as effective as one designed to blow through the convective passages. A box fan did work well on the old purley radiant stoves I have had but don't do much on the newer ones.

Also now that my stove is in finished living space I don't find box fans as an acceptable solution aesthetically

Tar12 · Feb 20, 2019

bholler said:
But does your stove have heat sheilds that block radiant heat and block the air from your fan like the stove in question does?

This is spot on! The BK fan kit extracts far more heat from the stove than a box fan ever could...I have tried it and there is no comparison....

bholler · Feb 20, 2019

Tar12 said:
This is spot on! The BK fan kit extracts far more heat from the stove than a box fan ever could...I have tried it and there is no comparison....

As have I. On my regency not the bk but their shielding is very similar. The bk lent to me came with a fan kit installed already. And it works very well

Tar12 · Feb 20, 2019

bholler said:
As have I. On my regency not the bk but their shielding is very similar. The bk lent to me came with a fan kit installed already. And it works very well

I tried a experiment one day to see just how warm I could get the living room...I bailed when it hit 87 lol

rybern · Feb 22, 2019

Very useful info guys. It sounds like the fan kit would be good to have. I appreciate the responses.

moresnow · Feb 22, 2019

Get the fan kit. Money well spent. Like I mentioned early in this thread I ran my Scirocco without the kit for a week or two. Not nearly as good at getting heat distributed as using the stock fan kit. On another note. I did place a box fan near the stove during that first week or two while waiting for my fans. I felt it goofed up the thermostat and made it open to much.
Also. To this day I am running a very small floor fan at the far end of the house gently encouraging cool air towards the stove room to displace the heated air. Most days this is the only fan I run. When it gets bucky cold the stove fans are running. Without running this model personally it seems like a stretch to advise against the fan kit. No offense but......

Woody Stover · Feb 22, 2019

Woody Stover said:
My brother got a motor online and fabbed up a mount for his Regency F2400. I don't know if it was the same motor, I'll ask him what he did. Maybe someone here could get you the numbers off the OEM motor, and you could get that, or one with similar specs?

Bro said he got a non-OEM two-speed fan, and the fan shot into the duct slot well, so no mods there. He fabbed mount brackets and hooked in a thermal switch held in place with a rare earth magnet, which allowed him to move it around so it would kick on at the temp he wanted. He also made a heat shield for the motor, but thought it probably wasn't necessary...

Highbeam · Feb 22, 2019

I’ve fitted a generic fan assembly to my nc30 stove instead of paying much more for the oem version. Cheaper and way more cfm flow.

rybern · Feb 24, 2019

We will likely purchase the fan kit instead of DIY. Way too many irons in the fire to fab something up.

SuperJ · Feb 24, 2019

I have the Ashford 30 (same guts as the sirocco).
Purchased without the fan kit.
It ran pretty good without, but on cold days I ran a box fan to even things out. Stove works without it, but the stove corner would get hot, and the walls would be wastefully hot.
The box fan was annoying (noisy and unsightly in the living room), and a little dangerous since it was always near the stove.

I DIY installed the fan kit for my second year, it was easy.
It's nice and quite on low, and tidies up my living room nicely.
Also, since it forces cold room air thru the rear heat shield gap, the back of the stove really cools off, things means you waste less heat radiating your wall behind the stove if it's an outside wall.
Most of the time the fan is off, but as it gets colder, I run the stove on low, then turn the fan on, then if it's not enough I bump the stove thermostat setting up a bit, if I still want more heat and the stove is pretty high, I speed the fan up a bit.

The air coming out of the outlets is literally hundreds of degrees so a little fan can really pull a lot of heat off the stove.

So if you're on the fence, I would hold off, and then install it if in the future.

Woody Stover · Feb 24, 2019

wooduser said:
And at the same time it does an effective job of breaking up stratified room temperatures. What more should I want or expect?

I had the Buck 91 in a small room at one end of the house, and used a small fan outside the stove room on the floor, blowing cool air into the bottom of the door opening. When I had the ceiling fan running in the stove room it broke up the stratification, but it was too hot sitting in the stove room. I found that it was better to allow the hottest air to rise and be forced out of the top of the doorway by the cooler air being blown into the bottom of the doorway. It was more comfortable sitting in the stove room, and also was more effective for moving heat to the rest of the house.
A box fan would have broken up the stratification in a similar way, I think, and not been as comfortable or moved heat as well.

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