Faint propane smell coming from Superior fireplace

thisisnotagoodname said:

I took out all the logs at one point to clean the thermocouple and thermopile and now the flame seems to scorching the side of the log and leaving a black residue which I never noticed before.. i

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The black stuff is soot, caused by flame impingement on the logs. I'd take the logs out and reset them again. There are probably indent on the bottom of the logs to aid in setting the logs correctly so that the flames wont impinge on them.

If you look carefully while the burner is on, you can probably see the flame impingement on the log(s).

You don't want to see soot. Where there's soot, there's also carbon monoxide being produced, but it's probably being vented up the flue with the other combustion products.

But that is unlikely to be a propane like odor.

thisisnotagoodname said:

I'm getting a faint smell of propane from the top when the blower is on, and only on the left side for some reason. This fireplace is vented outside and I also have a carbon monoxide alarm in the living room. I've left it on for a few hours and its still there, just a very faint smell in the living room. I don't smell it in the bottom compartment where the valve and controls are. I only smell it when its turned on and in the top compartment where the air is blowing out.

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Well, guessing doesn't really cut it, but my guess is that you have a leak in the bottom compartment of the fireplace where the gas valve is.

Propane burned by the burners is very unlikely to retain a propane odor, so the gas controls are the likely source of the problem. Furthermore, any leak inside the firebox is very likely going to be carried up the chimney by the draft created by the main burner. By contrast, a leak from the gas controls will be carried around the outside of the firebox by the draft created by the warm air flow out the top of the fireplace.

(The inside of the firebox is sealed away from the outside of the firebox)

If you want to try to check that out yourself, use a solution of 50% dishwashing liquid and 50% water, and paint the solution on the controls and piping in the bottom of the fireplace with a 1/2" or so paint brush., or you can use a spray bottle. Get those part good and soaked with soapy solution.

Look for VERY SMALL bubbles that a leak can produce.

I'd try that with the pilot light lit and the main burner off first. If you don't find a leak, turn the main burner on and try again.

Actually, try several times. It takes some practice and patience to find the very small leaks you are describing. Keep painting that soapy solution on.

thisisnotagoodname said:

. Is that normal?

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No.

thisisnotagoodname said:

When I took the glass cover off to inspect the logs, I lit the fireplace and I was getting a very strong smell of propane..

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Well, if you were lighting the pilot, you might get a small of=odor from gas escaping before it's lit.

But describe in more detail when you were finding and what you were doing. Basically, you could get a leak from the pilot burner tubing when the pilot is lit or being lit.

You could get propane leaking when the main burner is turned on from the gas going to the main burner when the main burner is lit.

Please describe in more detail what you were noticing and just what you were doing when your were noticing it. A strong enough gas leak would be noticeable even when the glass is in place.

Honestly I'd shut the fireplace off and shut the service shut off and call a pro for this one.

thisisnotagoodname said:

I take it you're not a DIY guy

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No. I am. But you sound dangerous doing this imo. And gas does not flow out of the thermo couple fitting.

thisisnotagoodname said:

It doesn't huh? Well thats funny because I was just staring at a small leak on mine about 10 minutes ago. Please if you are not going to offer any help, just move on from this thread.

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Goodluck

thisisnotagoodname said:

It doesn't huh? Well thats funny because I was just staring at a small leak on mine about 10 minutes ago. Please if you are not going to offer any help, just move on from this thread.

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No it doesn't. I replace about 200 of them a year. If you have gas escaping where the thermocouple actually screws in to the valve then you have a huge issue.

thisisnotagoodname said:

I'm seeing small bubbles where the the thermocouple screws into the main assembly. I put a wrench on it but its already pretty tight,

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Look again. You can't get any bobbles from the fitting for the thermocouple, but you may well get bubbles from the 1/4" aluminum tubing that goes from the electric gas valve to the pilot burner. That's pretty much the #1 spot to have such a leak.

So verify that's where the leak is coming from/

If it is, you'll have to summon up the MORAL COURAGE to tighten that pilot tube fitting with a wrench, a little at a time, until the leak goes away. Say, 1/8the of a turn at a time. In most cases, that will solve the problem.

It's possible but unlikely that you'd need to unscrew and remove the pilot tubing compression fitting from the gas valve and start tightening it again.

Congratulations! You've already done the hardest part, finding a small leak like that.

That's actually a larger than usual leak. Great pictures, incidentally!

That is, incidentally, the pilot tubing.

There is a high probability that you just need to tighten up the fitting until the leak goes away and then stop tightening.

However, the way the pilot tubing is bent might impair the ability of the compression fitting to turn on the pilot tubing to tighten up.

If the pilot tubing itself starts to turn, rather than the brass compression fitting turning, that's the point to stop. If that happens, the pilot tubing may need to be replaced. If the leak continues but the pilot tubing is turning, that will further damage the pilot tubing, and the likely way to fix that is to replace the pilot tubing and the brass compression fittings.

But the odds are good that you can fix it by tightening.

thisisnotagoodname said:

My second question is: what are those fire logs made from? One of them has a crack and every time I move it, some dust gets left behind on the floor.. just wondering if its harmful?

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I don't know. You might be able to get a material safety data sheet on the logs from the manufacturer if you give them the model and serial number of your fireplace.

I'd seriously consider replacing the damaged log. It's not going to get any better on its own, and you probably don't want many years of useful life from a fireplace with a deteriorating log. Replace it now while the part is probably available from the manufacturer.

thisisnotagoodname said:

I found that the flame doesn't always stay on, but some days it will stay on for hours. C

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Please describe in detail what you mean by this. It sounds like the main burner isn't staying lit reliably, and shuts off sometimes when the burner is still switched on. Is that right?

thisisnotagoodname said:

It doesn't huh? Well thats funny because I was just staring at a small leak on mine about 10 minutes ago. Please if you are not going to offer any help, just move on from this thread.

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That's right, gas doesn't leak out of a thermocouple fitting. I expect there was confusion between the thermocouple fitting and the 1/4" aluminum tubing that supplies gas to the pilot light. If there's a leak, it's very common for it to be of the brass compression fitting that fits the pilot tubing into the gas valve.

thisisnotagoodname said:

Does the pilot light always have to touch the thermocouple and thermopile even when the main b

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Yes, it does, the heat of the pilot flame on the thermopile provides the millivolts needed to turn on the main burner gas vaklve and to hold it open reliably. If the pilot flame is marginal, there may not be enough voltage to keep the main burner gas valve open reliably, which can produce the symptoms you describe.


If your pilot flame isn't engulfing the thermopile with a flame like a small blue blowtorch, you probably have a dirty pilot burner orifice that needs to be cleaned.


If you think that might be the problem, describe your pilot burner flame in detail.

thisisnotagoodname said:

When I first light it, I'm getting a nice blue flame from the pilot burner.. but it starts to flicker a little and occasionally lose contact with the thermocouple and thermopile. I'm not sure if its because of a draft coming down from the vent or like you said, a dirty pilot burner orifice. I'll clean it all up and hopefully its all good after that. Thanks again sir

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Does this flickering occur when the main burner is lit? If so, do the flames change color or the pilot burner or main burner flames become more thready and perhaps lift off the burner itself? If so, those are symptoms of a shortage of combustion air, which can have a number of possible causes.

In particular, any signs of black soot forming on any part or the glass? That would be a danger signal of poor combustion and carbon monoxide production.


Still, a pilot orifice that needs cleaning is the most common cause of a pilot that's not working properly. To clean it, you need to remove the screws that hold the pilot burner to the stove or burner, and gently bend the pilot tubing out so you can work on the pilot burner.

Use a small wrench to loosen the brass compression fitting that holds the pilot tubing in the pilot burner. When you pull the comopression fitting out, the pilot orifice will probably just drop into your hand ----it sits in the pilot burner at the end of the pilot tubing.

Some pilot orifices can be cleaned with a wire from a wire brush. Others, such as the bell shaped pilot orifice made by Robertshaw, have holes too small for that and need to be cleaned out with some compressed air. Some debris can be too small to see.

In a few cases, pilot orifices can't be successfully cleaned and need to be replaced if cleaning doesn't solve the problem or create good pilot flame characteristics. I used to replace bell shaped Robertshaw pilot orifices with new ones because they can be hard to clean, but they would be worth a try since you wont have a replacement handy.

Reassemble after cleaning the orifice.


Cleaning the pilot is a useful skill to have, since dirty pilots are a very common cause of fireplaces that quit working. Cleaning the pilot every 1-3 years is really ordinary maintenance to avoid problems.