Dude, my secondaries are awesome [emoji41]

I just recently got my secondaries to start functioning. I will try and get some decent pictures but they are nearly all the way across the stove and look like flame waterfalls coming out of the secondary tubes. Other times, and I am not sure this qualifies as secondary action, there flames that "materialize" in the fire box with no seeming point of origin. They burn for a second or two in midair and then disappear. Goes on for an hour or so.

I would think wet wood and/or burning to cool. My Jotul insert get some good secondaries with dry wood.

begreen said:

Here is some serious secondary performance.

Click to expand...

That's what I have going on!

BethelStrong said:

How much wood is in there at the time? I can’t tell from my phone...

I’ve had some of this, but not so good most of the time. What would be the various fails that would keep it from happening regularly?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I now load like this:



The wood lights before I am finished loading it and the stove top temperatures climb above 500 degrees within 10 minutes. As the entire load ignites it starts to shrink leaving more space at the top which facilitates the secondary action. I find that if there isn't space up at the top the secondary action has difficulty getting established.

I am dealing with less than ideal moisture content and to combat that we split the wood smaller than I would otherwise prefer - almost kindling sized. This helps it dry out a bit as we lay it out on the hearth to warm and dry in front of the stove before being loaded. Each load gets a warming/drying session as long as the heating cycle preceding it. I also load the stove north/south most of the time unless I have east/west splits that are very well dried. Just now I loaded the stove in the above pictures the stove achieved over 600 degrees in 11 minutes and the wood was hissing as the fire built in intensity. Here is a picture of the secondaries when we closed the door and closed the damper.



Letting the stove run full bore on small splits to high temperature and then closing the door and damper seems counter-intuitive to long burns but it is the only way I have found to ignite the secondaries which are absolutely critical for long burns and good heat.

Some moderate secondary action in my Montpelier on a load of mostly pine. Air is 90% closed and stove top is about 500. Ignore the fan noise, my speed controller went out so it only runs at full speed at the moment.

I get great secondaries in my Englander NC30. As soon as the wood starts to catch I start closing the air. The heat makes the wood gassify and I can get to a sweet spot where the wood is not actually burning and it is all secondaries. I do have to adjust the air a lot since it is unique to each load of wood. Burning oak and elm which has been 2-3 years on the stack.

With dry small splits in my F400 I can start closing the air down at 400 (if temps didn’t drop to low) and run with the primary air closed completely. Some times the temps will keep climbing past 600 and I have to crank up my blower. Seems to make a lot of coals that burn down slower when it runs like that.

Das Jugghead said:

I now load like this:

View attachment 241349

The wood lights before I am finished loading it and the stove top temperatures climb above 500 degrees within 10 minutes. As the entire load ignites it starts to shrink leaving more space at the top which facilitates the secondary action. I find that if there isn't space up at the top the secondary action has difficulty getting established.

I am dealing with less than ideal moisture content and to combat that we split the wood smaller than I would otherwise prefer - almost kindling sized. This helps it dry out a bit as we lay it out on the hearth to warm and dry in front of the stove before being loaded. Each load gets a warming/drying session as long as the heating cycle preceding it. I also load the stove north/south most of the time unless I have east/west splits that are very well dried. Just now I loaded the stove in the above pictures the stove achieved over 600 degrees in 11 minutes and the wood was hissing as the fire built in intensity. Here is a picture of the secondaries when we closed the door and closed the damper.

View attachment 241350

Letting the stove run full bore on small splits to high temperature and then closing the door and damper seems counter-intuitive to long burns but it is the only way I have found to ignite the secondaries which are absolutely critical for long burns and good heat.

Click to expand...

The coolest secondaries you can kind of see through. I dont know how exactly to explain it. Air is all the way down and the flames kind of dance towards the glass from the tubes.

Heres all secondaries including from the door gasket.

From a few years ago.. but happens all the time... LOL.

This was right after our Homestead was installed.. I used to sit and just watch it burn a lot.. LOL

I would say that there are two kinds of secondaries. The first is when the tubes look like those of a furnace or gas grill, with very little other activity in the firebox. The second, the furnace burner effect is less, and there are lazy, swirling and dancing flames that materialize above the wood, which are absolutely mesmerizing to watch. It's funny how many people see my stove and ask me if it is gas powered because they have never seen a modern wood stove operating (properly).

Dakotas Dad said:

From a few years ago.. but happens all the time... LOL.

Click to expand...

That is mesmerizing. I wish I could get my secondary air to come out that slowly and evenly. Mine are almost always way faster than that - the air is just coming out of the tube at a greater velocity.

Do you have low draft? A damper installed?

BethelStrong said:

Actually, how does one know if they have good secondaries? Is there such a thing as decent secondaries, or good enough, or is it an all or nothing type phenomenon?

View attachment 241310

Click to expand...

The best secondaries . . . are the ones producing heat.

In my time here . . . and my quality one on one time intimate time with my stove . . . I've seen a few "different" types of secondaries.

"BBQ Grill" . . . Jets of blue flames shooting out of the secondary tubes like . . . well . . . a propane BBQ grill.

"Fireworks" . . . Little to no flames on the wood and then you see a burst of flame (minus the back puff or explosion) which may burn for a second or two or more before dying out, only to be repeated a second or two later. I usually see this it seems if the air is a little on the lean side and/or the temp isn't quite hot enough . . . I suspect the volatile smoke is accumulating and then it gets hot enough or enough concentration of fuel and air to light up.

"Ghost Flames" . . . Slow motion flames at the top of the firebox with little to no flames on the wood . . . "wispy" might be the word I use to describe the look of these slow, dancing flames.

"Dude . . . a Portal to Hell has opened up in your woodstove" . . . My usual secondary action. Intense flames rolling around the top of the firebox and it appears as though Beelzebub will soon be making a guest appearance.

BethelStrong said:

That was nice. I’ve had all these at least once, but there are so many variables (controllable and non-controllable) that I don’t see anything on the regular.

I’ve noticed, and learned on here, that if I begin to dial down the air earlier, I can maintain a more constant temp, and get your Fireworks or Ghosting, or something between. The Portal to Hell is harder to achieve, but shrooms help.

One thing I’m unsure about is how the rubles actually work, because I very rarely have seen blue Grill flames jetting out. I more get like a “transparent” flame or “reverse” flame where the air seems to jet but the flames seem around the jet and aren’t the jet if that makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I personally have never seen the BBQ grill effect with my own stove, but I have seen pics from other members here.

firefighterjake said:

The best secondaries . . . are the ones producing heat.

In my time here . . . and my quality one on one time intimate time with my stove . . . I've seen a few "different" types of secondaries.

"BBQ Grill" . . . Jets of blue flames shooting out of the secondary tubes like . . . well . . . a propane BBQ grill.

"Fireworks" . . . Little to no flames on the wood and then you see a burst of flame (minus the back puff or explosion) which may burn for a second or two or more before dying out, only to be repeated a second or two later. I usually see this it seems if the air is a little on the lean side and/or the temp isn't quite hot enough . . . I suspect the volatile smoke is accumulating and then it gets hot enough or enough concentration of fuel and air to light up.

"Ghost Flames" . . . Slow motion flames at the top of the firebox with little to no flames on the wood . . . "wispy" might be the word I use to describe the look of these slow, dancing flames.

"Dude . . . a Portal to Hell has opened up in your woodstove" . . . My usual secondary action. Intense flames rolling around the top of the firebox and it appears as though Beelzebub will soon be making a guest appearance.

Click to expand...

You forgot one type: A portal to hell opens up in the firebox. An unquantifiable amount of time passes as you stare into the abyss. Dang that is one hot fire, I should have probably shut the air back sooner. Wonder what my stove top temp is. Ah crap...

WinterinWI said:

You forgot one type: A portal to hell opens up in the firebox. An unquantifiable amount of time passes as you stare into the abyss. Dang that is one hot fire, I should have probably shut the air back sooner. Wonder what my stove top temp is. Ah crap...

Click to expand...

All while yelling at your woodstove "Get thee back Satan!"

BethelStrong said:

The Portal to Hell is harder to achieve, but shrooms help.

Click to expand...

Usually the shrooms are on softer woods like cherry. Softer woods on a hot fire can sure get the Portal to Hell going.