BK Ashford 30 Install

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 9, 2019

SpaceBus said:
I hate to be that guy, but I think your wood had too much moisture. The only way you are killing a fire below 80% draft with 20'+ chimney is with marginal wood. This is my first year of burning full time and I have this issue too. Try getting some bio bricks or similar and see if you still have the issue. I need very little draft for those little guys to take off and provide a ton of heat.

I started off with ash that was 20% MC last year, covered single row. Most of it was 14-15% MC this year. One week I did throw in a few partially covered beech logs with 35% ends and they were certainly killing the flame much easier. I've purged those out and it has helped. Yes, someone has mentioned the wood quality in one of these 200 posts

If I were going to buy bio bricks at $125/ton I would save about $50/ton running my NG boiler!

I'm sitting here now with STT around 450°F, tstat at 80%, 34°F out/ 72°F in, stove warmed up for 1hr with 15lbs of dry ash and oak. It's just barely making a flame. If I turned it down even a hair it would snuff it out and start making creo. This is doing well babysitting the tstat but it's still going to be above 75°F in here pretty soon. The other issue is loading < 10lbs where it may not be able to keep the draft going with the tstat reduced.

maple1 · Mar 9, 2019

If using NG would save me that much vs. biobricks at 125/ton, I might be tempted to forget all about burning wood.

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 9, 2019

maple1 said:
If using NG would save me that much vs. biobricks at 125/ton, I might be tempted to forget all about burning wood.

Sure, but it adds up eventually if you cut your own wood. Would be much easier to pay back if the stove could stay running at medium. And don't forget dropping that gym membership!

moresnow · Mar 9, 2019

ValleyCottageSplitter said:
I was wondering about the tstat as well. I don't think it's slipping; it is very sensitive. It almost seems like it closes too hard at higher temperatures, snuffs out the flame and kills the draft. I guess it should normally lose the flames at some medium setting.

It has been in the 20's so I needed it running at 80% to stay warm. Now it looks like we are back to 30's and partial E-W loads to try making it through the night.

I will look at measuring the draft, but having a little trouble figuring out how to do the pipe connections without drilling a huge hole in my already imperfect chimney. I'd guess I'm at or above spec with full open, but when up to temp and/or stat reduced I'm getting close to no draft. Just seems to be dying and stalling very easily with a very hot flue. Surface temps of dsp are > 275°F on high.

Second, I noticed my bypass lever is closing about 30 degrees down where before it was about 0 degrees. It now creaks and clicks at the end of the travel. Could something be slipping?

Just a thought. Where you set your stat is completely independent of what anybody else sets there's at. Its completely dependent on your draft. Something to consider. Set it where the stove performs optimally. Don't try to attain (recommended) settings that your system wont support. Wont work.

Your bypass lever appears correct now. Any chance you possibly may have not been getting it locked in completely before? Dunno.

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 9, 2019

@moresnow
Strange, the bypass was very tight before but it didn't slide and clunk. The door always looked tight against the gasket.

I understand the stat will run uniquely, it's just that the stove will emit creo below 80% stat which is 450°F STT with a full load.

moresnow · Mar 9, 2019

ValleyCottageSplitter said:
@moresnow
Strange, the bypass was very tight before but it didn't slide and clunk. The door always looked tight against the gasket.

I understand the stat will run uniquely, it's just that the stove will emit creo below 80% stat which is 450°F STT with a full load.

You were not locking the bypass in correctly without the "slide and clunk". Quite possibly this was affecting your overall performance. Now you are locking the bypass correctly and it has possibly changed your stat settings some. Talk about chasing your tail! Wow. Your dealer was delinquent by not making sure you were aware of this procedure. Its also described in your operators manual.

450+ STT is where I like to let my stove hover for as long as possible. Sounds like a good sweet spot if it is working for you. No matter where the stat is pointed.

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 9, 2019

I'm saying it was pretty tight even without the clunk. The gap between the plates doesn't look any different.
I just tried this morning with the clicked BP and was right on the edge of making creo smell. 450-500°F STT is about a 6-8hr burn with Ash, 1st floor at 80°F @ 35°F outside. It got up to 77°F with 15lbs of ash today. Its a 2400sq ft colonial.

AlbergSteve · Mar 9, 2019

ValleyCottageSplitter said:
Second, I noticed my bypass lever is closing about 30 degrees down where before it was about 0 degrees. It now creaks and clicks at the end of the travel. Could something be slipping?

That's what mine looks and sounds like.

moresnow · Mar 9, 2019

ValleyCottageSplitter said:
I'm saying it was pretty tight even without the clunk. The gap between the plates doesn't look any different.
I just tried this morning with the clicked BP and was right on the edge of making creo smell. 450-500°F STT is about a 6-8hr burn with Ash, 1st floor at 80°F @ 35°F outside. It got up to 77°F with 15lbs of ash today. Its a 2400sq ft colonial.

Damn Sam! Talk about toasty ;lol

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 9, 2019

moresnow said:
Damn Sam! Talk about toasty

Yes. Exactly. My wife likes it that way at least. I can't really turn it down any less so its either 2hr burn times, 80 degrees with 8hrs burns, leave window open and waste heat, or get creosote in the house.

Something was catching at 180° turn of the bypass and it wouldn't really go any further. It finally wore down enough that it slides past.

Mnpellet · Mar 9, 2019

Did you ever get your stove pipe joints to fit tight like they should? Have you tried bio bricks or maybe some cut up 2x4s something you know is dry? If so maybe it really is the chimney configuration. BlazeKing recommends straight up chimney we know that. We also know if going through wall they recommend at least three foot vertical first and also an insulated chase. It’s really a great stove I hope you get it figured out.

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 9, 2019

@Mnpellet It's dry.

If you look at Page 7, #156 I rebuilt my entire stove pipe two weeks ago. It's all tight together, just about as tight as you can get with this Selkirk pipe.

Easy Livin’ 3000 · Mar 10, 2019

ValleyCottageSplitter said:
@Mnpellet It's dry.

If you look at Page 7, #156 I rebuilt my entire stove pipe two weeks ago. It's all tight together, just about as tight as you can get with this Selkirk pipe.

You gave it your all. Sucks it didn't work out.

I've all sorts of other crazy ideas, like getting an air filter with activated carbon in the room, asking BK to send you a new thermostat, etc., but I suspect you've had enough already.

While I haven't a clue whether an insulated chase would fix you issue, if you did it yourself, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

Ok, I'll stop now.

We'll welcome you with open arms into the tube stove family. Never had a lick of creo smell with my tube stove, and no expensive cats to worry about, either. Just good, clean, free, beautiful wood heat.

Mnpellet · Mar 10, 2019

What do you think is wrong with his thermostat?

ED 3000 said:
You gave it your all. Sucks it didn't work out.

I've all sorts of other crazy ideas, like getting an air filter with activated carbon in the room, asking BK to send you a new thermostat, etc., but I suspect you've had enough already.

While I haven't a clue whether an insulated chase would fix you issue, if you did it yourself, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

Ok, I'll stop now.

We'll welcome you with open arms into the tube stove family. Never had a lick of creo smell with my tube stove, and no expensive cats to worry about, either. Just good, clean, free, beautiful wood heat.

View attachment 242187

Easy Livin’ 3000 · Mar 10, 2019

Mnpellet said:
What do you think is wrong with his thermostat?

Honestly, I have no idea. You'll notice I said I had all sorts of crazy ideas.

But, if I'd spent the money for the premium product, I'd be troubleshooting every single part. And, as he has already fixed the pipe to no avail, I'd want to try replacing the most complex part of the system. As I have no intimate knowledge of the bowels of the stove, it was just a "flyer".

Who knows? Maybe what smells like a bunch of creo odor to him, would be unnoticed by the rest of us. I doubt it, but that's why I also suggested the carbon filter air cleaner. Treat the symptom if we can't treat the disease.

There are lots of other things that could be wrong, a bad inch of weld in the steel that's buried under the cast shell, around the combustor, for one.

But, we all have our limits, and seems like it's been reached.

Mnpellet · Mar 10, 2019

It possibly has absolutely nothing to do with the stove as well, that’s what makes this one a challenge. I believe the draft has never been measured is that correct?

ED 3000 said:
Honestly, I have no idea. You'll notice I said I had all sorts of crazy ideas.

But, if I'd spent the money for the premium product, I'd be troubleshooting every single part. And, as he has already fixed the pipe to no avail, I'd want to try replacing the most complex part of the system. As I have no intimate knowledge of the bowels of the stove, it was just a "flyer".

Who knows? Maybe what smells like a bunch of creo odor to him, would be unnoticed by the rest of us. I doubt it, but that's why I also suggested the carbon filter air cleaner. Treat the symptom if we can't treat the disease.

There are lots of other things that could be wrong, a bad inch of weld in the steel that's buried under the cast shell, around the combustor, for one.

But, we all have our limits, and seems like it's been reached.

Ashful · Mar 10, 2019

ED 3000 said:
.... a bad inch of weld in the steel that's buried under the cast shell, around the combustor, for one.

There was a BK smoke smell case a year ago, that turned out to be exactly this, creo oozing thru a missed weld, and baking outside the stove. I can’t be 100% sure of my memory, but I seem to remember BK replaced that stove with a new one.

Easy Livin’ 3000 · Mar 10, 2019

Ashful said:
There was a BK smoke smell case a year ago, that turned out to be exactly this, creo oozing thru a missed weld, and baking outside the stove. I can’t be 100% sure of my memory, but I seem to remember BK replaced that stove with a new one.

Any chance you recall how they finally figured out that's what it was? Perhaps someone came out and looked at it? The cast over steel is a nice system, but it probably make diagnosing something like this tough.

Ashful · Mar 10, 2019

ED 3000 said:
Any chance you recall how they finally figured out that's what it was? Perhaps someone came out and looked at it? The cast over steel is a nice system, but it probably make diagnosing something like this tough.

The poster could see it, and even posted a photo of it. I’m not sure if it was even a cast over design, but it’s pretty easy to remove all the panels. Takes maybe five minutes.

Easy Livin’ 3000 · Mar 10, 2019

Ashful said:
The poster could see it, and even posted a photo of it. I’m not sure if it was even a cast over design, but it’s pretty easy to remove all the panels. Takes maybe five minutes.

That could be very valuable information!

I'm not going to go back through all 9 pages of this thread, to see if anyone suggested taking 5 minutes to pop the cast panels off. Particularly since I don't have this stove, and didn't know that.

But, since it's so easy, maybe, someone who uses this stove could suggest popping the panels off and looking for whatever oozing creo looks like, to help Valley out, before he throws in the towel.

We are still rooting for you, Valley!

Ashful · Mar 10, 2019

Good idea, Ed. I’ll post directions later tonight, when I’m at a real keyboard.

Ashful · Mar 10, 2019

Okay, prepared to be underwhelmed. This is simple:

1. Remove cat probe from hole, it just lifts out.
2. Remove top, it just lifts off.
3. Remove sides. They also just lift off, but you may need to loosen the bolts they hang on first, a thin 7/16" wrench will be needed.

That's it, unless you want to also strip off the ash pan tray assembly.

Easy Livin’ 3000 · Mar 10, 2019

Ashful said:
Okay, prepared to be underwhelmed. This is simple:

1. Remove cat probe from hole, it just lifts out.
2. Remove top, it just lifts off.
3. Remove sides. They also just lift off, but you may need to loosen the bolts they hang on first, a thin 7/16" wrench will be needed.

That's it, unless you want to also strip off the ash pan tray assembly.

Thanks!

Can it be safely burned with the cladding off? Seems like the best way to see if something is leaking or smouldering. But, safety first.

I do hope this reveals something. It's been a long road, and VCS has been game.

ValleyCottageSplitter · Mar 10, 2019

Thanks guys. There could be something to this bypass lever issue. Wondering if maybe the bypass was possibly puffing a little air into the flue while closed and causing backdraft through the cat probe. The bypass lever was very tight initially. It likely would have taken some bumps with a 8lb sledge to get it all the way closed where it goes now. It also had a little "click" (not the "clunk") so it seemed like it was closing all the way.

My dad was visiting the past week and turned it down to about 50% with a few logs and it built up tons of creo vapor throughout the house. I don't remember if the bypass was closed all the way. Since then we've had no noticeable creosote smell in the last week even with the windows all closed. Ensuring to clear chips from the door ledge has prevented all the startup smoke. After a hot warm up I left a 20lbs E-W load overnight at 75% and there was no smell upstairs in the morning (nice good coals in the morning as well).
Too early to call but it's been doing pretty well even with the warmer temps. I might push it a little and try a bigger N-S load below 75% when I'll be around to air out the house.

I've removed the panels when rebuilding the stove pipe and found no easily visible cracks in any of the welds... I can't imagine why that would cause creosote emission on lower burns. If there is something that obvious, BK better hand deliver a new replacement!

begreen · Mar 10, 2019

ED 3000 said:
Thanks!

Can it be safely burned with the cladding off? Seems like the best way to see if something is leaking or smouldering. But, safety first.

I do hope this reveals something. It's been a long road, and VCS has been game.

The clearances will be dramatically changed. Technically they should be 36" in all directions as the stove is untested in that configuration.

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