Going off grid

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

SpaceBus said:
Unless something big happens in the way of renewable electricity generation the costs of electricity will only rise. My power company actually just this month raised rates!

I’m a pessimist (and studied), so I think we could have already had almost free power 100+ years ago, and for sure now. Thing is, it will be resisted at all costs... Even Solar is in on it, so prices will remain “competitive” until they can’t, almost as a rule.

I watch this guy on YouTube that takes old lithium cells and tests them and makes his own Tesla PowerWall. He even had a couple covers designed out of glass with the Tesla logo, just for fun. I forget the channel now, and I’m not home to look, but it’s pretty cool. He connects with off grid commercial shops too, and made an electric old VW Bus [emoji590]

I’d love to see you tell the power company you don’t need them. I’m rooting for you, but then I need, and I mean NEED my internet, and I’ve not figured out how to beat $25 per month for water, let alone send my own satellite into orbit for keeping my megabits flowing.

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SpaceBus · Mar 23, 2019

BethelStrong said:
I’m a pessimist (and studied), so I think we could have already had almost free power 100+ years ago, and for sure now. Thing is, it will be resisted at all costs... Even Solar is in on it, so prices will remain “competitive” until they can’t, almost as a rule.

I watch this guy on YouTube that takes old lithium cells and tests them and makes his own Tesla PowerWall. He even had a couple covers designed out of glass with the Tesla logo, just for fun. I forget the channel now, and I’m not home to look, but it’s pretty cool. He connects with off grid commercial shops too, and made an electric old VW Bus [emoji590]

I’d love to see you tell the power company you don’t need them. I’m rooting for you, but then I need, and I mean NEED my internet, and I’ve not figured out how to beat $25 per month for water, let alone send my own satellite into orbit for keeping my megabits flowing.

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I've considered satellite internet, but it's too slow for the insane prices. Right now I have a wired connection from spectrum for internet and home phone and it's pretty cheap. I'll probably dig a trench a bury that if we separate from the power company. Despite the issues with our house, it has a well and plenty of land, so worth it to us at least. I just wish I had known about this pole nonsense before we moved in, we could have started on this stuff way earlier.

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

SpaceBus said:
I've considered satellite internet, but it's too slow for the insane prices. Right now I have a wired connection from spectrum for internet and home phone and it's pretty cheap. I'll probably dig a trench a bury that if we separate from the power company. Despite the issues with our house, it has a well and plenty of land, so worth it to us at least. I just wish I had known about this pole nonsense before we moved in, we could have started on this stuff way earlier.

I was joking about sending my own satellite for my own internet [emoji1632]but my rich neighbor has his own air conditioned Bobcat for fun (not work), and he has his own plane [emoji927] he flies himself back and forth from here to his house in Florida, so a guy can dream.

Oh, a forgot I know a guy who makes mini steam Powerplants. Talk about off grid! Of course it’s 100+ year old tech made new again, but that’s what big powerplants use; steam. Nothing beats steam, but he’s not trying to compete with Big Power. He’s thinking we will go back to 1800’s lifestyle, so the guy with an expensive per KWatt powerplant will be king of the neighborhood [emoji555]

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Dataman · Mar 23, 2019

Anyone Catch recent Pawn Stars and Rick went to his Off the Grid House in Oregon. Hydro Generator

https://battlebornbatteries.com/offgrid-with-rick-harrison/

He's using 1k batteries, 48 of them! Must be nice to be rich

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

Dataman said:
Anyone Catch recent Pawn Stars and Rick went to his Off the Grid House in Oregon. Hydro Generator

https://battlebornbatteries.com/offgrid-with-rick-harrison/

He's using 1k batteries, 48 of them! Must be nice to be rich

It is nice to be rich. I mean, that’s what I’ve heard, and seen from a few rich people I know hahaha

I’ve been to that guys Pawn Shop. He was already a Pawn Star, but I just wonder how rich he was before the show. That place was unbelievably tiny.

I listened to his speech at CPAC too, and he seemed like he didn’t understand why they wanted him there. I felt a little dirty when he explained how pawnshops help poor people, since banks won’t loan to them, and these Payday Loans shops popped up to “help” them. It’s all “usury” to me...

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SpaceBus · Mar 23, 2019

BethelStrong said:
I was joking about sending my own satellite for my own internet [emoji1632]but my rich neighbor has his own air conditioned Bobcat for fun (not work), and he has his own plane [emoji927] he flies himself back and forth from here to his house in Florida, so a guy can dream.

Oh, a forgot I know a guy who makes mini steam Powerplants. Talk about off grid! Of course it’s 100+ year old tech made new again, but that’s what big powerplants use; steam. Nothing beats steam, but he’s not trying to compete with Big Power. He’s thinking we will go back to 1800’s lifestyle, so the guy with an expensive per KWatt powerplant will be king of the neighborhood [emoji555]

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Our realtor has a house in Arizona and sells houses there six months a year. Then he flies to Maine and sells houses here the rest of the year. He probably spent more on maintenance for both houses last year than our house cost.

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

SpaceBus said:
Our realtor has a house in Arizona and sells houses there six months a year. Then he flies to Maine and sells houses here the rest of the year. He probably spent more on maintenance for both houses last year than our house cost.

It’s crazy huh crazy [emoji12]

Mine has a full time caretaker that I’m close with. Bobcat, Tractor, 2 Rangers 4x4, three 4wheelers, not to mention the corporate plane. Oh, and an outdoor shooting range!

I benefit, so I’m not complaining at all. Free firewood to top it all off.

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SpaceBus · Mar 23, 2019

BethelStrong said:
It’s crazy huh crazy [emoji12]

Mine has a full time caretaker that I’m close with. Bobcat, Tractor, 2 Rangers 4x4, three 4wheelers, not to mention the corporate plane. Oh, and an outdoor shooting range!

I benefit, so I’m not complaining at all. Free firewood to top it all off.

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I cashed out a lot of money I had saved for many years to buy my tractor. It has already been an invaluable tool in the weeks I have owned it.

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

SpaceBus said:
I cashed out a lot of money I had saved for many years to buy my tractor. It has already been an invaluable tool in the weeks I have owned it.

His just sits there. Well maintained, 4x4 JD with bucket. Several implements too... it’s mine if I ask. I’m lucky...

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peakbagger · Mar 23, 2019

Forget LP refrigeration. Very expensive to run. SunFrost DC refrigerators were the standard for years but they shut down because modern high efficiency refrigerators pretty well replaced them. Many folks make the move to chest freezers converted to refrigerators. The ultimate is a Sundanzer DC chest refrigerator but very pricey.

You are not the first one who has gone off grid. Check out this link to the archive page of Home Power https://www.homepower.com/. It would be worth going though the back issues as it was the magazine for off gridders. They used to sell CDs of back issues but since they stopped publishing I think you need to download them.

The economics of off grid changed radically over the years, the early folks had to pay a premium for efficiency as the panels were very expensive. Panel prices dropped so most folks just installed much bigger arrays so efficiency is far less important. Unfortunately batteries are still expensive so in a northern climate where you need several days of storage you either go with efficient appliances, run a generator, or cut way back on your usage until the sun comes out again.

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

peakbagger said:
Forget LP refrigeration. Very expensive to run. SunFrost DC refrigerators were the standard for years but they shut down because modern high efficiency refrigerators pretty well replaced them. Many folks make the move to chest freezers converted to refrigerators. The ultimate is a Sundanzer DC chest refrigerator but very pricey.

You are not the first one who has gone off grid. Check out this link to the archive page of Home Power https://www.homepower.com/. It would be worth going though the back issues as it was the magazine for off gridders. They used to sell CDs of back issues but since they stopped publishing I think you need to download them.

The economics of off grid changed radically over the years, the early folks had to pay a premium for efficiency as the panels were very expensive. Panel prices dropped so most folks just installed much bigger arrays so efficiency is far less important. Unfortunately batteries are still expensive so in a northern climate where you need several days of storage you either go with efficient appliances, run a generator, or cut way back on your usage until the sun comes out again.

Reading this makes me want to move to Mexico and eat tacos.

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SpaceBus · Mar 23, 2019

peakbagger said:
Forget LP refrigeration. Very expensive to run. SunFrost DC refrigerators were the standard for years but they shut down because modern high efficiency refrigerators pretty well replaced them. Many folks make the move to chest freezers converted to refrigerators. The ultimate is a Sundanzer DC chest refrigerator but very pricey.

You are not the first one who has gone off grid. Check out this link to the archive page of Home Power https://www.homepower.com/. It would be worth going though the back issues as it was the magazine for off gridders. They used to sell CDs of back issues but since they stopped publishing I think you need to download them.

The economics of off grid changed radically over the years, the early folks had to pay a premium for efficiency as the panels were very expensive. Panel prices dropped so most folks just installed much bigger arrays so efficiency is far less important. Unfortunately batteries are still expensive so in a northern climate where you need several days of storage you either go with efficient appliances, run a generator, or cut way back on your usage until the sun comes out again.

I'm hoping to find some very efficient appliances, within reason of course. My research into LP fridges concurs with what you said. I haven't looked into converted chests. We actually have a chest freezer that came with the house that we haven't used. Sounds like a worthy conversion candidate.

I feel like LP backup heat is overall superior to the baseboard heaters. It seems like all of the major stove manufacturers offer attractive freestanding lp stoves that can operate on a thermostat. We can even have an lp stove, kitchen range, and on demand heater on the same wall for an easy install.

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

What about geothermal? At least in conjunction with...

My other neighbor has geothermal, but he does HVAC for s living, and had a backhoe to dig a pond.

Also, what about a boiler? My place is way too small to even consider it, but since you are talking complete off grid, I just wonder what people here know about the feasibility.

I’m still working on my Flux Capacitor so I can bounce into the future and bring back some true free energy, but there are a lot of things on my list that keep getting in the way.

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SpaceBus · Mar 23, 2019

I've thought about a natural draft gasification boiler like a member here has, but I don't have nearly enough house for that. Our house actually has a passive solar heating arrangement that allows us to use no heat on sunny days. A geothermal situation would be nice, but unnecessary. I think our insurance company would like us to have a "primary" heat source that doesn't require human intervention.

I can't believe you can use a chest freezer like that. Less than 1kwhr per day!

Where2 · Mar 23, 2019

BethelStrong said:
Reading this makes me want to move to Mexico and eat tacos.

Actually a similar topic came up in discussion with one of my college professors today: retirement by way of a sail boat hopping around the Caribbean. You can make fish tacos, and there's generally not much tax on the fish, assuming your voyages take you into international waters every so often... Anywhere you want to sit on dry land, the taxes are generally higher... Renting a slip in FL is prohibitively expensive!

SpaceBus said:
I can't believe you can use a chest freezer like that. Less than 1kwhr per day!

I still kick myself for not buying the SunDanzer I saw on CL once... The next best thing is an Engel with the little sawafugi compressor. The problem with Engel's is the off-road 4x4 guys love them, and drive the pricing up on the used market. I have two old Engel units that just keep running whenever I ask them to. If you're buying new, just get the sundanzer.

Last time I was at Richardson's Hardware up in Patten, Maine they had an LP refrigerator on the sales floor for sale. If you really want one, you might call and see if it is still there. The Patten area has lots of properties where grid power is not economically feasible. EMERA just sent us a notice saying how much their distribution rates were increasing... I just shook my head in disgust. I wish net metering would come back to Maine.

In FL, you can find the LP/Electric fridges that the snow birds pull out of their RV's when they replace them with 120V home/apartment refrigerators.

As for internet, when in Maine I have fiber to the house for an insane low price. In FL, I have a garbage DSL connection over 60 year old copper wires that resembles 1995 dialup speeds, and it costs more than my fiber connection!!

BethelStrong · Mar 23, 2019

Where2 said:
You can make fish tacos...

Mmmmm... I love fish tacos.

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zrock · Mar 23, 2019

I got bored of reading this after post 20 so sorry if this is covered... how close are your neighbors poles can you not share with your neighbour? Iv never seen a company run 2 different services like that. Since the poles are yours instead of replacing them with the overpriced poles from hydro look for come cedar poles. About 1/4 the price if u prep em yourself. Since its private property and poles they cannot specify what u have to use... we use cedar on all our private poles

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Ashful · Mar 24, 2019

SpaceBus said:
Yeah, maybe an attorney will be able to convince emera to maintain the poles, but that's not going to be free either.

Typical retainer for something like this would be $750, and you'll likely not even use up half of it. So, if you have any other issue for which a lawyer might help, two birds... one stone. In your case, a real estate attorney might be useful, if you have any zoning or old obsolete ordinances you'd like to address, and they could handle the utility issue.

BethelStrong · Mar 24, 2019

zrock said:
I got bored of reading this after post 20 so sorry if this is covered... how close are your neighbors poles can you not share with your neighbour? Iv never seen a company run 2 different services like that. Since the poles are yours instead of replacing them with the overpriced poles from hydro look for come cedar poles. About 1/4 the price if u prep em yourself. Since its private property and poles they cannot specify what u have to use... we use cedar on all our private poles

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If you think this is boring, you should go over and read that forum section where guys write 1000 word posts for weeks about saving the planet from “Climate Change” and “Global Warming” [emoji3061]

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maple1 · Mar 24, 2019

SpaceBus said:
We have a survey, but it is older. We were going to get a new survey this summer either way. That pole is a private pole according to the power company. My driveway is off of a dirt road that is not a part of my property. My neighbor on the dirt road is further up the hill/down the road from me. The neighbor's power lines run on poles that are right next to the decrepit old poles that my lines are attached to. As far as I can figure it my house was built first and a different power company put the poles utilized by my house that is no longer around. The current power company wants nothing to do with these poles or lines. There are about 1,200 feet of lines with three poles between my house and the state maintained paved road. None of this makes any sense to me and it's ridiculous.

In the attached diagram my lines are in red and the neighbor's are in purple.

Have you talked to your neighbour? it would seem to me the best thing to do would be to just run a short line over from your neighbours line and abandon the long one in from the road. Not sure the situation on who owns what over there. Around here, the neighbour would just grant an easement to you for that short section, between the pole you come off of, and your property line. Then once the easement is in place, the power company would hook you up. That's done around here all the time.

SpaceBus · Mar 24, 2019

zrock said:
I got bored of reading this after post 20 so sorry if this is covered... how close are your neighbors poles can you not share with your neighbour? Iv never seen a company run 2 different services like that. Since the poles are yours instead of replacing them with the overpriced poles from hydro look for come cedar poles. About 1/4 the price if u prep em yourself. Since its private property and poles they cannot specify what u have to use... we use cedar on all our private poles

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They said they wouldn't deal with our poles because they are old cedar poles, but I will find out soon exactly what they need to be in place. We're also going to find out about burying the line if possible.

SpaceBus · Mar 24, 2019

maple1 said:
Have you talked to your neighbour? it would seem to me the best thing to do would be to just run a short line over from your neighbours line and abandon the long one in from the road. Not sure the situation on who owns what over there. Around here, the neighbour would just grant an easement to you for that short section, between the pole you come off of, and your property line. Then once the easement is in place, the power company would hook you up. That's done around here all the time.

Ha, I just met the neighbor a few days ago. She came to complain because FedEx left my packages at her house. Next she complained about having to drive around my tractor once, I was cleaning up widowmakers around the power lines. The final thing she asks me is "What are you doing here?". Basically, I doubt this woman will do anything for us and is probably the whole reason our lines aren't on her poles. Our poles were placed when the dirt road only went to our house. At some point the previous owners sold the land north of us, up the road, and a house was built. The dirt road turned into an easement before we ever bought the place. The poles were placed in 1975 before any of that happened in the 80's.

The plot thickens. An emera truck showed up about a month ago to place a couple of new poles along the dirt road. I didn't realize our lines weren't put on them. Especially since they had to disconnect our power to make this happen.

At this point I want to go off grid so I never have to deal with emera again and when I'm old I won't be paying huge electric bills.

SpaceBus · Mar 24, 2019

BethelStrong said:
If you think this is boring, you should go over and read that forum section where guys write 1000 word posts for weeks about saving the planet from “Climate Change” and “Global Warming” [emoji3061]

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I actually do read those! ;lol

BethelStrong · Mar 24, 2019

SpaceBus said:
I actually do read those!

When I was a kid I loved to read Frank Herbert’s Dune and the sequels. A complete and utter waste of time, except it made me sound smart at times. Kinda like Climate Change thwarters...

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BethelStrong · Mar 24, 2019

SpaceBus said:
The final thing she asks me is "What are you doing here?". Basically, I doubt this woman will do anything for us and is probably the whole reason our lines aren't on her poles.

Oh, and I’m so sorry you have a neighbor like this. Everyone spends money on an inspector, or warranty, and insurance when they buy a house, but I’m convinced the money would be better spent on background checks and PI surveillance of the neighbors hahaha

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