You are correct and I feel the difference between a cat and non cat can be substantial....hence the questions regarding his house....I dropped 7k this past fall in windows,doors,insulation,siding and tightening this place up of slightly less than 2k square ft. and it is a stretch for this Princess to keep up on the coldest of nights...if I do it over again there will be a King going in...given the OPs info. he might want to consider a heavy hitter.
Looking for Blaze King Experience
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You can see the half bath through the door to the right of the fireplace......turn left at that entrance and it’s the door way for the master suite which is 16x34, 544 sq ft. So that’s all behind the wall the fireplace is on. No real heat makes its way back there. It’s has its own zone for the hot water oil burner.
The door to the right of the fireplace on the second floor at the end of the catwalk that’s closed......that’s the door to a second master suite that’s 16x34, 544 sq ft as well. With all of the heat rising up that wall from the fireplace, if that door is left open that room gets crazy hot and no one will sleep in it. So we keep that door closed in the winter and it is also on its own zone with the oil burning hot water boiler.
That’s how I’m only heating about 2000 sq ft of my 3100 sq ft house. I’m trying to figure out how much more heat and burn time I can get out of these 2 stoves vs the fireplace because down to 10-15 degrees the fireplace keeps the house comfortable. So if these 2 stoves or one of them will put out a lot, or a little more heat than the fireplace I currently have and do it for a longer period of time then I figure I’ll be ahead of the game with a better set up possible burning less wood and maybe keeping it more comfortable to a lower temp than I currently am. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Also how the new stove will hold up over time and the customer service of the manufacturer compared to what I have now. That’s my goal here.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Not sure how he closed off that additional 1100 sq.ft., but one of my Ashford 30’s is running in about 1500 sq.ft. of new construction, 14 foot ceiling in 2/3rds of that, 9 feet in the rest, four large glass double French doors + 1 standard entry door, 14 large double-hung windows, and 12 transom windows, and it is complete overkill. I don’t run that stove unless the daily high is below 40F (low ~20F), and even then I’m dialed way down for a 24 hour per load burn time. When it gets cold here, which means 0F lows and 10F highs, it is fantastic in that space.
In my case, the primary issue is solar gain from all of those windows and glass doors, it gets quite warm on sunny days. But I have to imagine I could easily heat double that square footage, of reasonably insulated new construction, with that stove. I would not anticipate any trouble heating 2000 sq.ft. of new construction, unless it was very poorly insulated.
For complete disclosure, my 1500 sq.ft. space is also open to a much larger house, via a doorway with no door. However, since I can have one half of the house easily 5F - 10F warmer/colder than the other, I don’t really consider the additional space. I assume the OP’s 3100 / 2000 sq.ft. situation may be similar, if not better.
Edit: doh... just saw the OP posted that detail while I was typing.
How new is your new construction? My house was built in 2003. It’s pretty good as far as air infiltration and insulation. I’ve upgraded over the years and done a blower door test and sealed up as many air leaks as I possibly could.
I am running a princess this year and it does put out nice even heat. Just not that much of it. It has trouble keeping up with my 2000 sqft 1970s ranch if it gets into the low 20s. The regency 3100 kept up just fine till it got into single digits with wind. Before improving attic insulation.
Calentarse
Feeling the Heat
I won't go non-cat now that I know the comforts of the Blaze King slow burn. It's efficient, even heat. Clearances to walls are closer and you go through less wood when you are not creating heat you don't need. I hated being run out of a room by a stove that can't be turned down. My in laws' Hearthstone is that way. Their house is always 78+. I'd recommend the BK, and my house has some similar features to yours. ImI'heating 2210 sf and good insulation. You are way colder in CT than me, but I operate my stove on low most of the time and only need to turn it up a bit at nights. I'd recommend you order it with the fan kit. It'll give you enough heat I think.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
The wing of the house heated by that particular stove consists of about 400 sq.ft. from the 1890's addition, which has been opened up to about 1000 sq.ft. of the 1990's addition. It is a larger house, with various parts dating back to the 1730's. We have about a half dozen heat sources working in tandem, in various parts of the house and shop, including two Ashford 30's. I would venture to say I've put more cords of wood thru Ashford 30's than any person on earth not employed by Blaze King.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
So what other insert models, besides the Blase Kings, did you look at on those other days..??
Saw this pretaining to the NZ-3000..."Super-low burn feature allows for extended and overnight burns." What are they talking about?
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Right...I'll re-phrase that. What stoves did you look at besides the T6 and the Ashford 30, to narrow it down to those? There are a lot of stoves out there...
The only stove I was considering to replace the NZ 3000 was the PA FP30 but have decided to go free standing rather than another zero clearance. I have no idea what Napoleon is talking about but the new 3000H now has a catalyst, mine does not. It has burner tubes.
I’ve looked at and considered the PE FP 30, summit, and T6. The Blaze King Ashford 30, princess, king ultra. The Lopi Liberty, and cape cod. The hearthstone equinox, green mountain 60, and 80. Iron stone canyon 310. The Jotul F500, and F600. I think that’s all.
I’ve looked at and considered the PE FP 30, summit, and T6. The Blaze King Ashford 30, princess, king ultra. The Lopi Liberty, and cape cod. The hearthstone equinox, green mountain 60, and 80. Iron stone canyon 310. The Jotul F500, and F600. I think that’s all.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Have you experimented with the ceiling fan? If you leave it off, it will roast the upstairs, but may eventually pool the hot air high, and push it down to the point where it will reach the lower ceiling and circulate back to the master bdr.
A highly-radiant stove, such as those Jotuls, will radiantly heat the items down low, within line-of-sight of the stove. That would make sitting within sight of the stove very pleasant, as the radiation will be hitting you, and would help keep the heat lower in the house...
A highly-radiant stove, such as those Jotuls, will radiantly heat the items down low, within line-of-sight of the stove. That would make sitting within sight of the stove very pleasant, as the radiation will be hitting you, and would help keep the heat lower in the house...
I’ve owned the house for 10 years and that fan is always on. During heating season in reverse and cooling season it runs normal.
I have had it off for short and extended periods. Mainly when the power goes out like during the few hurricanes we’ve had and lost power for a few days. Back when we had the October snow storm in 2011 I had just finished putting this stove in the week before and we lost power for 3 days. The stove kept the house warm but it was hot upstairs and cold down. With the fan running the thermostat for the boiler upstairs and downstairs for the 2 zones will read within 1 degree of each other. If it’s not on I’ve seen a 10 degree split. So the fan makes a huge difference in dispersing the heat.
And the BKs are running as the oil-fired boiler supplement, right?
Ashful
Minister of Fire
That’s a matter of perspective, I guess. Not in they area I’m describing above.
For full disclosure, I’m heating just shy of 8000 sq ft, across three conjoined and one separate building. So, I am definitely still burning oil and electrons to heat areas not connected to or immediately adjacent the stoves, that makes up roughly 4500 sq ft my total heated space. I guess that makes me a “supplemental” heater.
The remaining part is heated almost entirely by the two Ashfords, one running 2 - 2.5 loads per day in 2000 sq ft of pre-Revolutionary construction, and the other less than 1 load per day in 1500 sq ft. of modern construction. I never need oil on the modern side of the house, unless I get lazy and don’t feel like loading that stove. The 2000 sq ft is two of our four floors in the old wing, and that’s good on 2.5 loads per day until we hit single digit nights, or below 20 all day, then the oil does kick in, but that’s usually only a few days each year.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Of these stoves, I’ve only owned two Ashford 30’s and three of the predecessor to the Jotul F600 (called Firelight 12). But watching the forum, you get to see who is raving vs complaining about their own purchase decisions, and combine these with your own impressions.
I rarely, if ever, see any complaints about the PE T6. I suspect there aren’t as many T6’s on the forum as T5’s, but both seem to get very high marks from their owners.
I haven’t paid enough attention to the FP30 or Summit to have an opinion on those.
The Blaze Kings are of course unique, in their turn-down capability. This enables one to the-couple the size of the stove from the heating requirement, to a much larger degree. In other words, when dealing with BK, you can almost consider the size of the stove as simply the size of your fuel tank, and not worry about it being “too much” for your space. This is why you see a lot of folks with BK Kong’s in spaces where a non-cat of similar size would turn the house into an oven. The advantage of going big with BK is achieving 40 hour burn times when your house doesn’t need a ton of heat, or turning it up for higher output when you do.
That’s not to say BK is a slam dunk, though. I don’t like the looks of the King or Princess enough to consider putting either in my house. Also, if you buy the big King, you may find yourself always turning it down to “black box” mode, with no fire show. The stove is fantastically efficient down there, but if you want to see flames, you’d be better off going with a smaller stove and running it harder.
The Ashford was the compromise for me, a mid-size BK with good looks, and I run one of my two in 12 hour cycles, where i still get some flame show. If I want a roaring fire while I sit by the stove one evening, I just turn it up, and it’s not so much that it roasts me out. The Ashford also has a much better airwash system, or at least it manages to keep the glass much cleaner than the older BK models, but this may have come with a penalty. Several users here have had a smoke smell or creosote smell issue with their Ashfords, an issue that has not been reported on any of the older (i.e. King or Princess) models. It hasn’t affected me, it hasn’t affected most, but there a few users each year that report this issue.
The Lopi Cape Cod was a stove I was anxiously awaiting, before buying the Ashfords. It had a lot of promise, but when it was finally released, the reviews were not very positive, at the time. I haven’t kept up with more recent reports on them, but initial complaints were about the lack of any ash belly (they’d spill ash), and several other comments that had me thinking they’re more for the occasional burner than one looking to heat 24/7 with a stove.
The Jotul cast stoves are top notch. Their casting quality and build quality are unsurpassed, if a purely radiant stove is what you desire. They lack the turn-down capability of any cat stove, and their direct end-user support is beyond horrendous (I’d call it non-existent), but their quality is beyond debate. Of course, build quality does not translate to performance, my three Jotuls were absolutely horrendous, and even their modern stoves have unimpressive burn times.
I don’t read Hearthstone threads, no opinion there.
To be fair the jotuls you had were the worst stoves that company ever made. You would have been impressed by the performance of just about any stove after them. I have also never had any issues getting support from jotul for my customers.
Sorry I couldn't pass this up. Kong would be a great name for a big brother to the King if BK ever makes one...
To the OP...regarding your question about high-output burn time of the Ashford 30. During the coldest weather this winter, with daytime temps around -10F and nighttime temps around -20F, I was getting approx. 9 hour burns using a thermostat setting around 80%. When I refer to burn times, I mean to say actual usable heat that keeps my house above 68F. This was using a mix of Lodgepole pine, Ponderosa pine, and Aspen.
More recently, with daytime temps in the low 40s and nighttime temps in the upper 20s, I can get 24+ hours on a setting around 55%. This is the lowest thermostat setting I can use with my setup without stalling.
It's tough to correlate that with BTU output though. I know I have relatively low draft because of my short chimney, so others may have a faster burn rate at the same setting.
You don't see too many people discuss high-output burn rates, I think because most owners don't ever run continuously that high. When I was doing my research, there was another member by the name of Poindexter (?), that had a lot of testimony in the older (2016-2017?) BK Performance threads. You might try searching his posts. There was also a member from MT and one from CO, but I don't remember their names. Those folk's experience really helped me make my decision.
More recently, with daytime temps in the low 40s and nighttime temps in the upper 20s, I can get 24+ hours on a setting around 55%. This is the lowest thermostat setting I can use with my setup without stalling.
It's tough to correlate that with BTU output though. I know I have relatively low draft because of my short chimney, so others may have a faster burn rate at the same setting.
You don't see too many people discuss high-output burn rates, I think because most owners don't ever run continuously that high. When I was doing my research, there was another member by the name of Poindexter (?), that had a lot of testimony in the older (2016-2017?) BK Performance threads. You might try searching his posts. There was also a member from MT and one from CO, but I don't remember their names. Those folk's experience really helped me make my decision.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
People who get a BK that is seen as "too big" can burn low and efficient most or all of the year, and those are the ones who are really getting what they paid for.
People who get a BK that is too small run them wide open and complain that they're no better than the $1000 tube stove that they should have bought. A BK works fine like that, but why buy an expensive knife when you are going to use it only as a hammer?
I grew up with the temperature swings that old fashioned wood stoves bring to a house, so I really appreciate 24 hour steady heat output. I would put in a 10cf BK if they had one, and load it twice a week in shoulder season.
People who get a BK that is too small run them wide open and complain that they're no better than the $1000 tube stove that they should have bought. A BK works fine like that, but why buy an expensive knife when you are going to use it only as a hammer?
I grew up with the temperature swings that old fashioned wood stoves bring to a house, so I really appreciate 24 hour steady heat output. I would put in a 10cf BK if they had one, and load it twice a week in shoulder season.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I've heard you say this before, but back when I had them, Mark at their tech support line said the Jotul Firelight 12 was "the best cat stove we ever made." I guess opinions can vary, but that's right from the head of Jotul USA support. I agree, they were not great stoves, mostly due to their propensity to destroy combustors.
But when I mentioned the lack of turn-down capability and unimpressive burn times, I meant their current stoves, not anything antique.
Dealers can always get support from Jotul USA, but their operator will not patch end users thru to the support line. At least that was their policy in 2012 - 2014. My local dealer told me to just pretend I worked for them, when I called in, and that would always get me thru. Very different from Woodstock or BK, who both make themselves available to end users, but maybe not a big deal for some.
So jotuls tech support claimed it was a good stove so it has to be true? They were very poor stoves. And no newer jotuls don't burn as long as blazekings can. But they crank out allot more heat. Not everyone is interested in low and slow stoves.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
So bholler claimed it was a bad stove so it has to be true?
I agree with you, they were not very good. But according to their tech support, their other models were even worse!
jetsam
Minister of Fire
If you have arrived at a point in your life where you are telling a guy who lives in a 7000sf stone lair that his stove is fine but you need a stove with REAL heat output- maybe you should consider getting your place roofed, or put doors in the exterior doorways....
Yes but he doesn't heat his house with those stoves. He helps heat it with wood. He also burn a whole lot of oil.If you have arrived at a point in your life where you are telling a guy who lives in a 7000sf stone lair that his stove is fine but you need a stove with REAL heat output- maybe you should consider getting your place roofed, or put doors in the exterior doorways....
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