Stove placement in the home

hemphill · Apr 10, 2019

So back in the fall we moved to a 1500 sq ft 150 year old farmhouse.

There was a prefab chimney installed when we moved in but no stove. I had no wood and no sources for wood, so I didn't buy a stove for this winter, but now I am trying to get set up for next winter. To me, picking a stove is a secondary consideration to the hearth and flue, so I'm trying to get that nailed down first.

The current setup is an "out the window" in the spot shown in the pic. My wife wants the stove to go to the star shown, to get more usable space in the living room and regain the window that was walled in.

I said no way, but then I noticed there was a circle poorly plastered over in the ceiling at the proposed spot which indicates to me at one time there was a stove there so I thought maybe... so I would at least think about it.

Questions for the board:

1. Is this an equal or better location from a heating perspective for our layout? One guy told me he thought all the heat would just rise up the stairs leaving main level cold and top level too hot

2. Cost-wise, what do we think its going to cost to install flue through the second floor and then up into the attic, and then out a slate roof?

Thanks,

begreen · Apr 10, 2019

If the stairwell is open then yes, a lot of heat will convect up the stairway. A blower on the stove can help circulate heat better on the first floor. Normally my preference is to go straight up and out the roof, but the slate roof presents more of a challenge. Is going thru the wall at another location also an option, maybe on the same wall? Can you post a picture of the current chimney location inside and out?

hemphill · Apr 10, 2019

begreen said:
If the stairwell is open then yes, a lot of heat will convect up the stairway. A blower on the stove can help circulate heat better on the first floor. Normally my preference is to go straight up and out the roof, but the slate roof presents more of a challenge. Is going thru the wall at another location also an option, maybe on the same wall? Can you post a picture of the current chimney location inside and out?

I figured that heat would go up, but I looked at that as a good thing -- since we want heat second floor too, but I didn't consider would be enough to make the first floor cold. There is a door at the top of the stairs

I'll post a pic of the existing setup inside and out when I get home. We could definitely go out through the same wall its on now, but the stove would be just about in the same place possibly even worse from the wife's space/usability point of view.

KJamesJR · Apr 10, 2019

I know a thing or two about heating old farm houses.

I would wager if the stove was over by the stairwell (open stairwell?), it was moved because all the heat was going up stairs and not staying on the first floor. Who knows how long ago, or with what stove. Like begreen said you can get decent blowers now that can circulate heat better. I don't know much about slate roofs so I can't help you there.

So...

1) Currently it seems to be in a better location than near the stairs given the info provided.
2) Cant answer this without more information. Length of pipe, floor/ceiling pass-through( how many ), accessories needed like roof brackets and such, DIY or contracting the work out etc...

moresnow · Apr 10, 2019

Betting the stove is where its at for good reason. The old stove location near the open stairwell would definitely not be my choice.
I'd consider going through/inspecting the existing vent setup carefully. Bring it up to snuff if necessary and plug in your stove of choice. Give it a season. If you decide to move the stove location in the future you will have some experience to work off of. Maybe?

begreen · Apr 10, 2019

The door at the top of the stairs will provide control for upstairs heat regulation. A blower on the stove will also help a lot with heat distribution. As for the cost with a slate roof, I would just be guessing. With a conventional roof this might be around a ~$2000-$2500 install if there are no confounding factors and you DIY the second floor chase. All said, a happy wife may be priceless.

xman23 · Apr 10, 2019

Maybe someone here has a similar setup, and can comment on how it works. Just my opinion, with a door at the top of the stairs, I think it's like a stove in the basement. I've seen this and there is an issue getting heat to rise. It won't do it well without a separate path for air to come down to replace the air your sending up. So put the stove where your wife wants it.

Cost, Stove + Chimney + Hearth + Installation through a slate roof. I'm just guessing $3500 - $5000. It can be done cheaper if you shop, and if your handy, do it yourself. I didn't do mine, but should have.

Woody Stover · Apr 10, 2019

In addition to the door upstairs, you might try a split curtain at the bottom of the stairs, if the side of the stairway is closed off. We used the curtains at my MIL's poorly-insulated house to focus the heat where she spent most of her time. Kind of a hassle when you want to go through, but they seemed to help.

Woody Stover · Apr 10, 2019

If a kid hangs out in an upstairs bedroom, a small space heater could be used in the room, and the other bedroom might stay cool enough for good sleeping.

kborndale · Apr 11, 2019

xman23 said:
Maybe someone here has a similar setup, and can comment on how it works. Just my opinion, with a door at the top of the stairs, I think it's like a stove in the basement. I've seen this and there is an issue getting heat to rise. It won't do it well without a separate path for air to come down to replace the air your sending up. So put the stove where your wife wants it.

Cost, Stove + Chimney + Hearth + Installation through a slate roof. I'm just guessing $3500 - $5000. It can be done cheaper if you shop, and if your handy, do it yourself. I didn't do mine, but should have.

I have to disagree, getting heat to rise is not a problem. Heat rises, getting heat to go down stairs is a problem. My stove is in a finished basement and it heats the first floor just fine. If I sit on the stairs with the stove cranking the amount of cold air heading down is enough to make my hair move. There is just as much heat going up as there is going down. A separate path is not needed, Cold air comes down the bottom of the stairway and hot air goes up the top of the stairway. With the stove right next to the stairway the problem will be too much heat going upstairs.

Kevin Weis · Apr 11, 2019

If your contemplating going through a slate roof get the advise of a roofer the specializes in slate. They are out there. Special tools and special considerations needed for sure. The less holes in the roof especially a slate one the better.

hemphill · Apr 11, 2019

@begreen here are the pics, pardon the mess I am in process of redoing the kitchen. Standing in front door, looking left to the current flue location, then right to the proposed spot near the stairs (currently occupied by the butcher's block). Exterior shows the class a pipe up the side of the house. My intention would be to re-use this in the new setup. Yes, I am aware that the current flue setup is improper. That's another factor in why we didn't burn this winter

Ashful · Apr 11, 2019

Happy wife, happy life. Don't fight it, she's probably smarter than you, too.

Looks like hollow block construction? Even so, think convective stoves.

<-- "real" old farmhouse owner

hemphill · Apr 11, 2019

KJamesJR said:
I know a thing or two about heating old farm houses.

I would wager if the stove was over by the stairwell (open stairwell?), it was moved because all the heat was going up stairs and not staying on the first floor. Who knows how long ago, or with what stove. Like begreen said you can get decent blowers now that can circulate heat better. I don't know much about slate roofs so I can't help you there.

So...

1) Currently it seems to be in a better location than near the stairs given the info provided.
2) Cant answer this without more information. Length of pipe, floor/ceiling pass-through( how many ), accessories needed like roof brackets and such, DIY or contracting the work out etc...

moresnow said:
Betting the stove is where its at for good reason. The old stove location near the open stairwell would definitely not be my choice.
I'd consider going through/inspecting the existing vent setup carefully. Bring it up to snuff if necessary and plug in your stove of choice. Give it a season. If you decide to move the stove location in the future you will have some experience to work off of. Maybe?

PO told me they put the stove where it is now because they wanted to DIY the install as fast/cheap as possible in the dead of winter. I do not disagree though the, heat will run up.

begreen said:
The door at the top of the stairs will provide control for upstairs heat regulation. A blower on the stove will also help a lot with heat distribution. As for the cost with a slate roof, I would just be guessing. With a conventional roof this might be around a ~$2000-$2500 install if there are no confounding factors and you DIY the second floor chase. All said, a happy wife may be priceless.

LOL - True. I had to look up what a chase was, That should be doable. I think I should be good to DIY everything except the roof, messing around with slate.. yikes.

xman23 said:
Maybe someone here has a similar setup, and can comment on how it works. Just my opinion, with a door at the top of the stairs, I think it's like a stove in the basement. I've seen this and there is an issue getting heat to rise. It won't do it well without a separate path for air to come down to replace the air your sending up. So put the stove where your wife wants it.

Cost, Stove + Chimney + Hearth + Installation through a slate roof. I'm just guessing $3500 - $5000. It can be done cheaper if you shop, and if your handy, do it yourself. I didn't do mine, but should have.

Thanks for the SWAG. Not cheap but it isn't out of the question -- course I hate to spend the money only to find it doesnt work well from a heating pov. oh well.

Woody Stover said:
In addition to the door upstairs, you might try a split curtain at the bottom of the stairs, if the side of the stairway is closed off. We used the curtains at my MIL's poorly-insulated house to focus the heat where she spent most of her time. Kind of a hassle when you want to go through, but they seemed to help.

good idea, but the stair is open

kborndale said:
I have to disagree, getting heat to rise is not a problem. Heat rises, getting heat to go down stairs is a problem. My stove is in a finished basement and it heats the first floor just fine. If I sit on the stairs with the stove cranking the amount of cold air heading down is enough to make my hair move. There is just as much heat going up as there is going down. A separate path is not needed, Cold air comes down the bottom of the stairway and hot air goes up the top of the stairway. With the stove right next to the stairway the problem will be too much heat going upstairs.

Good to know.

Kevin Weis said:
If your contemplating going through a slate roof get the advise of a roofer the specializes in slate. They are out there. Special tools and special considerations needed for sure. The less holes in the roof especially a slate one the better.

In our area slate roofs are fairly common ("slate belt") so I will get some names. It occured to me if I don't DIY the chimney in general, it would be better to have a slate roof guy do the roofing part and then the stove installer take it from there. dunno if that would fly.

thanks again all

hemphill · Apr 11, 2019

Ashful said:
Happy wife, happy life. Don't fight it, she's probably smarter than you, too.

Looks like hollow block construction? Even so, think convective stoves.

<-- "real" old farmhouse owner

View attachment 243271

Respect! Best we got:

Not block of any kind, the exterior on that side is covered in some kind of steel sheeting molded to look like stone, I believe that was done in the 1950s.

I'll have to read up on what a convective stove means. thanks for the tip

xman23 · Apr 11, 2019

Just another thought, If cost is a concern. Since the chimney is there, and looks to be up to date. Why not put the stove there and try it next year. The chimney cost and installation is much more than the stove. The stove produces intense heat, and the room is small. So being on one side or the other room will not be much different. I do see why you wifes location is good.

KJamesJR · Apr 11, 2019

After looking at your pics I would put the stove in that corner where the lamp and black chair are currently. Do a through the wall install.

You’ve already got the chimney running on that exterior wall. Would be the simplest option. Remove the two 45’s in the chimney, run it straight down, punch a hole through the wall, done. You already have 90% of the hardware where it’s already supposed to be. Would be a very easy, less expensive DIY job.

I did my install (DIY) going through the roof. It’s not that I wouldn’t do it again, but having an old house definitely made it more difficult than it needed to be. All of the extra framing involved had to be custom fitted to my rafters and that’s only going through one ceiling, a one story vaulted ceiling, which is as easy as it gets. You’re going to have to run it through 3 ceilings if you chose to go through the middle. If you’re hiring out the work then I guess it doesn’t matter.

I would agree with xman23, just worry about finding a stove you like and try it where it is for a season. If you like it how it is but still want the window, then just scooch it over and do a through the wall.

Ludlow · Apr 11, 2019

I would use the existing location. Going to cost a lot to change it and I wouldnt penetrate a slate roof if I could help it. Yuck. Spending much money and opening a can of worms shall be avoided.

Ashful · Apr 11, 2019

hemphill said:
I'll have to read up on what a convective stove means. thanks for the tip

All stoves move heat into the room via two primary mechanisms, radiation and convection. Radiation is the line-of-sight heat you feel when you move from shadow to sunlight, or stand in front of a campfire. Convection works by moving air across the hot surface of the stove, which strips heat off of it (via conduction) and carries it into the room. This can be natural convection like a fin tube radiator, or forced convection like a hairdryer, with aid of fans.

As mentioned above, all stoves rely on both mechanisms, to some degrees. But the ratio will vary pretty widely, among the different stove designs. If your old stone farm house has exposed masonry, or the typical plaster on stone construction, a stove with a higher convection ratio would be preferable. I say this because the radiant stove works by heating high-density objects within line of sight of the stove, and those objects increase the effective surface area, allowing conduction to air. But if your high-density line-of-sight objects are a bunch of exterior stone walls, you'll be fighting a losing battle, dumping radiant heat into them.

If your house is framed or insulated, this is really not much of an issue. It is really unique to uninsulated masonry houses.

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