Carpentry tools

SpaceBus · Jun 23, 2019

Now that we are getting very serious on our house renovations serious tools are being considered. We have two 7.5" circular saws, one a porter cable and the other a cordless dewalt. These have been great, but we are thinking a table saw and miter saw are going to make our lives much easier. We have no shed or covered work space nor exterior outlets. This has led me into the Dewalt catalog of cordless tools, namely the absurdly expensive cordless 120v compound miter saw and wheeled stand. Dewalt also offers a slightly less cordless expensive table saw I would also find super useful.

Are these cordless options really worth the high cost? Should I just suck it up and run an extension cord? We also want to build a 12'x12' garden shed along with a barn in the future, so cordless seems like a good idea for that. I've also inherited an essential new 7,500 watt generator that I assume could run corded power tools. I also have a feeling my wife wouldn't be down with hearing a generator run all day.

My wife and I are by no means carpenters, but we are considering it after all the work we are doing to this house!

johneh · Jun 23, 2019

If it was me I'd buy the corded Portable Saw and a 10 or 12 inch
Sliding Compound Miter saw . Run power by extension cord.
Battery is OK but I only use on a customers job site . You never
seem to have a fully charged battery when you need one . At the
end of a batteries life It costs less to buy a new tool than a
battery pack . Disposable tools ?

SpaceBus · Jun 23, 2019

Is it ok to run 100+ feet of extension cords? On some auto shop equipment the max length and gauge of extension cords are very specific. Extension cords also become expensive too when you need something capable of pushing 15+ amp.

begreen · Jun 23, 2019

Why the very long cord? Is there no power at the house? Or is this project remote from the house? We built our greenhouse on a 100ft extension cord powering a compound miter saw, table saw, and some hand tools, like a jig saw. It just meant operating one at time.

For a table saw and a miter saw I want power. Battery power is fine for a good 1/2" drill with a spare battery, but not for ripping full sheets of plywood. I agree with johneh with the recommendation for a compound miter. Dewalt makes a decent one. If this is major construction work go for the 12".

blades · Jun 23, 2019

compound miter saw 12" minimum not the cord less, 10" table saw - on these again corded. table saw Mass is your friend, 2-3 hp and I do not mean peak hp. (1.5 peak hp is woefully lacking.) Delta or Power Matic pre 1980 are your best bet, most of what is sold in the box stores is not worth squat. A cabinet saw is a much better investment. On a cabinet saw the arbor and motor are not bolted to the table top. They are an independent sub-assemblies. What this means is you are able to align the table, arbor, fence to get square cuts. Something that is nie unto impossible with most of the unitized units sold in the box/ hardware stores stores. Blade mounted directly to the combination motor/arbor shaft is also something to be avoided. Once in awhile it is possible to find a contractor type saw built similar to a cabinet saw internally ( contractor type -doesn't have a full cabinet base and generally the motor is mounted out the back- arbor being driven by a belt from motor and the arbor assembly is adjustable so as to get proper alignment even though it is likely mounted to the table top. I have a PM66 circa 1970 Cabinet saw- I can stand a nickle on edge and start up the saw and it will stay on edge. It is about the same as a Delta Uni-saw ifirc the was a junior Delta version as well. I would not bother with a radial arm saw- getting them aligned is not for the faint of heart. A table saw will need out board tables to handle 4x8' sheets. Left tilt is preferable to a right tilt in my book , but that is another discussion. A note on compound mitre saws if dosen't cut square it isn't worth anything. Good tools even used are not inexpensive. Makita used to make a very good compound miter saw. Have not looked at the latest versions of any of the mitre saws. ( I do have a harbor freight 12" miter sliding compound saw , isn't the greatest but it does cut square -1 out of 100 I suppose) I am fully aware that it will not last like the Makita or similar but is adequate for my needs (Electric motors from HB have been less than stellar in my experience). Hope this is of some help.

EatenByLimestone · Jun 23, 2019

A single 12x12 shed could be done with a miterbox saw. If you won't be using it often or ever again, I'd probably use harbor freight.

But honestly, if you dont want to store something like that after you're done, use a handsaw. You can pick up a 7 or 8 tpi cross cut saw from the pre 1950 or so for around $10, probably freshly sharpened. It'll cut through a 2x4 pretty fast.

Modern work has stationary tools that the work is brought to. Handtool work you can carry the tool to the board. It's a refreshing way to work.

Collectors want the name brands like Disston, but the generic Warranted Superior saws are left untouched. They work just as well.

SpaceBus · Jun 23, 2019

blades said:
compound miter saw 12" minimum not the cord less, 10" table saw - on these again corded. table saw Mass is your friend, 2-3 hp and I do not mean peak hp. (1.5 peak hp is woefully lacking.) Delta or Power Matic pre 1980 are your best bet, most of what is sold in the box stores is not worth squat. A cabinet saw is a much better investment. On a cabinet saw the arbor and motor are not bolted to the table top. They are an independent sub-assemblies. What this means is you are able to align the table, arbor, fence to get square cuts. Something that is nie unto impossible with most of the unitized units sold in the box/ hardware stores stores. Blade mounted directly to the combination motor/arbor shaft is also something to be avoided. Once in awhile it is possible to find a contractor type saw built similar to a cabinet saw internally ( contractor type -doesn't have a full cabinet base and generally the motor is mounted out the back- arbor being driven by a belt from motor and the arbor assembly is adjustable so as to get proper alignment even though it is likely mounted to the table top. I have a PM66 circa 1970 Cabinet saw- I can stand a nickle on edge and start up the saw and it will stay on edge. It is about the same as a Delta Uni-saw ifirc the was a junior Delta version as well. I would not bother with a radial arm saw- getting them aligned is not for the faint of heart. A table saw will need out board tables to handle 4x8' sheets. Left tilt is preferable to a right tilt in my book , but that is another discussion. A note on compound mitre saws if dosen't cut square it isn't worth anything. Good tools even used are not inexpensive. Makita used to make a very good compound miter saw. Have not looked at the latest versions of any of the mitre saws. ( I do have a harbor freight 12" miter sliding compound saw , isn't the greatest but it does cut square -1 out of 100 I suppose) I am fully aware that it will not last like the Makita or similar but is adequate for my needs (Electric motors from HB have been less than stellar in my experience). Hope this is of some help.

It's a lot of information, but I think I get the jist of it. If I lived closer to a major city or back in NC I'm sure an antique/classic cabinet saw would be easy to find. Out here in the edge of the earth I'm not so sure. I think for my purposes a "contractor" spec table saw would work for me. Harbor freight is also a considerable distance away, but I'm sure I could order something.

begreen said:
Why the very long cord? Is there no power at the house? Or is this project remote from the house? We built our greenhouse on a 100ft extension cord powering a compound miter saw, table saw, and some hand tools, like a jig saw. It just meant operating one at time.

For a table saw and a miter saw I want power. Battery power is fine for a good 1/2" drill with a spare battery, but not for ripping full sheets of plywood. I agree with johneh with the recommendation for a compound miter. Dewalt makes a decent one. If this is major construction work go for the 12".

A lot of the work we want to do will be a bit remote from the house, but I think using extension cords might be worth it. Currently the house has no exterior outlets and we are using a deck and picnic table for a work space. The Dewalt 20V battery stuff has successfully deconstructed and reconstructed the eastern half of the house. I'm seeking more precision than my novice hand can master with the hand held circular saw. I have no reason to doubt the 60/120 volt Dewalt tools will do the work I need, it's a matter of cost.

After stands the table saw and compound sliding miter saw together are $1,500, and that's without spare batteries. The flex volt (60/120v) stuff uses different batteries than the regular 20v stuff. Cordless is nice but I feel like thats really steep. The miter saw is 12" and the table saw is 8 1/4". The miter saw does have the ability to be ran like a normal corded saw for whatever that's worth.

pjohnson · Jun 23, 2019

Another option instead of a table saw is a track saw more portable and no storage problems. Its basically a hand held skill saw designed to run along a track that you clamp on the wood. They are actually very precise and great for breaking down sheets of plywood much easier then balancing a sheet of plywood on a small table saw. I believe Festool, a German company started the idea and makes a very high quality tool with a price to match. I really do like their tools just don't like the price. Dewalt and Makita and a few others make track saws too. Google track saw lots info and videos

semipro · Jun 23, 2019

My recommendations for the 5 power tools I wouldn't want to live without for general carpentry:

Impact driver (not a drill) cordless
Corded sliding miter saw (I like the DeWalt)
Track saw (table saw later if needed) use with corded or cordless circular saw
Reciprocating saw (corded or cordless)
Cordless circular saw (this and a speed square can do an awful lot)

festerw · Jun 23, 2019

I know you were talking about Dewalt but look at Milwaukee. They have a ton of tools that use their M18 battery packs and they're all interchangable but with different ah capacities. You can use the all battery packs for all the tools but run time will be the only difference.

gzecc · Jun 23, 2019

Get corded tools. All the basics. Use portable where needed (drills). Very expensive.
10" sliding compound miter will do 90% of what you need. Its not so heavy also.

MTY · Jun 23, 2019

Go to an auction and pick up an older Craftsman 10" table saw. Around here they go cheap. I paid $50 for the last one.

begreen · Jun 24, 2019

MTY said:
Go to an auction and pick up an older Craftsman 10" table saw. Around here they go cheap. I paid $50 for the last one.

Agreed. We've done a ton of work on this house with a basic $150 Makita table saw, and a Ryobi circular saw and 10" chop saw. Total cost under $300. The circular saw was $20 at a yard sale, almost new. They are not perfect tools and one needs to be patient at times, but they can do a lot of work. The chop saw just won't quit. I've even cut down a large batch of overlength firewood with it. Recently I've seen a couple nice contractor table saws for sale at great prices. Yard, moving and estate sales are the best, but sometimes buying new is not painful if one shops the sales.

peakbagger · Jun 24, 2019

You can compensate for long extension cords by gong with heavier gauge cords. For 100 feet 10 gauge is the way to go.They are not cheap because heavy gauge is more copper. Remember the cord's capacity is only as good as the outlet ts plugged in. Many homes only have 15 amp outlets fed by 14 gauge. Ideally you want to plug into a 20 Amp circuit preferably on a dedicated circuit with no other loads. Avoid if at all possible running two big loads at the same time. Folks who use a compressor need it on a separate circuit. If you have a real table saw it needs to be plugged into a 20 AMP circuit.

Speaking of compressors, there is lot of repetitive motion bashing nails into framing. I have an air nailer for framing. I notice now that Dewalt makes a cordless electric framing nailer I have no experience with them but expect either air or electric work to take the load off you joints and muscles. I also have a trim gun that really speeds up trim and makes filling the holes quick. If you do use air nailers use hearing protection and eye protection. Not sure these days but older air nailers had two trigger methods, the production guns had a single contact arrangement where they could shoot multiple nails as long as the trigger was pulled. They can be dangerous for homeowner. The other trigger method requires a shoe to contact the wood and trigger pulled. It will not shoot another nail until the contact shoe is lifted and then pushed down again and the trigger is pulled.

OT_Ducati · Jun 24, 2019

table saw https://maine.craigslist.org/tls/d/palmyra-craftsman-deluxe-10-inch-flex/6918644730.html

Ashful · Jun 24, 2019

I’ve seen a few recommendations in this thread for a compound 12” miter saw. This is a bad idea, a 12” saw is too small to do anything but the smallest of trim work, when running compound angles. The sliding compound resolves this problem, at the expense of a little slop and accuracy. The other option is to go to 14”, which is much more flexible.

I went with a 14” single bevel compound, plus 16” radial saw, for all of my cross-cutting needs. Radial saw stays in shop (it weighs 1000 lb), and compound saw gets hauled into the house or around the yard for various projects.

No radial saw for you, unless you build a shop, so your miter saw choice becomes even more important. You will hate yourself next time you need to cross cut more than 2x6, or bevel miter anything over 3.5”, if you buy a 12” saw.

For table saw, you already said you don’t have shop, so I’m not sure why cabinet saws came up. You just need any decent contractors saw. If you’re only cutting 3/4” and 1.5” with it, you could get away with smaller, but I’d really be looking at 10” saws. The older saws will have induction motors, which due to portability constrains (must run off 110V and <15A), will be a little underpowered. Some newer job site saws have universal motors, like drills and routers, which solve the stall torque problem within the constraints of an extension cord.

Another vote for extension cord over battery, for anything I’m not carrying up a ladder. I wouldn’t bother with any battery-powered bench-top equipment, too much hassle jockeying batteries, for something that never moves.

begreen · Jun 24, 2019

Ashful said:
I’ve seen a few recommendations in this thread for a compound 12” miter saw. This is a bad idea, a 12” saw is too small to do anything but the smallest of trim work, when running compound angles. The sliding compound resolves this problem, at the expense of a little slip and accuracy. The other option is to go to 14”, which is much more flexible

It all depends on the house. Most modern houses do not have the 8-12" trim board one finds in an old mansion. 4-6" baseboard and 3-4" trim is common in most modern places. A compound miter saw will cut 6 x stock fine. It is not common to run into larger than this in most modern house construction.

Ashful said:
Another vote for extension cord over battery, for anything I’m not carrying up a ladder. I wouldn’t bother with any battery-powered bench-top equipment, too much hassle jockeying batteries, for something that never moves.

Another option for onsite power is to get a small generator. A 2KW unit from Costco or Amazon will do the job.

blades · Jun 24, 2019

that's a lot of green stamps on thos battery rigs, Those inverter type small gensets are very quiet as compared to what was around 10 years ago or so and are fairly miserly on fuel, although they do have a price tag on them.
table saws only trying to explain difference in types- skil saw style and some sort of clamping guide for long cuts ( or even short cuts) gets it done. piece of angle iron and a pair of c-clamps for us miserly types works fine.

I have burned up my share of lower end electrical tools over the years- I remember , in particular, a Delta 10" table saw with a 5000 rpm motor ( honest that is what it was equipped with) half way through a modest deck build ( about 10'x8') it went up in smoke, I had to make a shim placed in behind the sacrificial face on the fence to get it to cut straight on any thing over about 8" . Guess ripping those 2x6 x10' was more than it could handle.

mitre saw- reason at least a 12" is you can miter 4"+ on edge 10" won't reach , those 14" units are very pricy and so are the blades. 10" and 12" blades are common stock all over- 14" not so much.

Years ago Menards( diy box store) used to sell a 10" portable table saw for $99, problem was it could not spin a 10" carbide tip blade just didn't have the moxy for it, did ok with the plate saws though. They had a habit of disappearing off the job sights over night- which is why we used them.

SpaceBus · Jun 24, 2019

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'll try and see if there's any used tools locally.

@Ashful, I do have the Dewalt cordless framing nailer and it is fabulous. I put up several sheets of plywood along with several studs. This thing will bury a 3.5" nail in just about anything.

SpaceBus · Jun 24, 2019

Also, any suggestions for pneumatic siding guns? I've read it's best to nail up cedar shingles by hand, but that's a lot of nails.

SpaceBus · Jun 24, 2019

semipro said:
My recommendations for the 5 power tools I wouldn't want to live without for general carpentry:

Impact driver (not a drill) cordless

Corded sliding miter saw (I like the DeWalt)

Track saw (table saw later if needed) use with corded or cordless circular saw

Reciprocating saw (corded or cordless)

Cordless circular saw (this and a speed square can do an awful lot)

I have all but the miter saw and track saw/table saw.

Ashful · Jun 24, 2019

blades said:
those 14" units are very pricy and so are the blades. 10" and 12" blades are common stock all over- 14" not so much.

I've always owned at least one 14" table saw and have been running a 16" radial saw for 20 years, along with the aforementioned 14" compound miter. What I have spent in 14" and 16" blades has amortized to really just a few dollars per year (like one Starbucks cup of coffee) more than I'd have spent if I owned all 12" machines. I'm not saying the bigger blades don't cost more, but when you consider the lifetime of a good carbide blade, the difference is really too small to even consider a factor in the decision making process.

Forrest Chopmaster in 12" / 90T = $207 list
Forrest Chopmaster in 14" / 100T = $225 list

Lifetime of Chopmaster > 10 years
Differential cost < $2/year

pjohnson · Jun 24, 2019

Ashful said:
I've always owned at least one 14" table saw and have been running a 16" radial saw for 20 years, along with the aforementioned 14" compound miter. What I have spent in 14" and 16" blades has amortized to really just a few dollars per year (like one Starbucks cup of coffee) more than I'd have spent if I owned all 12" machines. I'm not saying the bigger blades don't cost more, but when you consider the lifetime of a good carbide blade, the difference is really too small to even consider a factor in the decision making process.

Forrest Chopmaster in 12" / 90T = $207 list
Forrest Chopmaster in 14" / 100T = $225 list

Lifetime of Chopmaster > 10 years
Differential cost < $2/year

Nothing cuts like Forrest saw blades. About 30 years ago I was at a woodworking show and they were demonstrating Forrest blades. Glass smooth cuts and the guy asked the crowd how many had a Forrest blade about 20 raised their hand. He offered to buy them back and no one would part with their Forrest blade. I bought one and have had one on my table saw ever since. I’ve tried a few others but haven’t found anything that gives the quality of cut that a Forrest does.

bholler · Jun 25, 2019

He is talking about equipment for general construction not cabinet making. I have my cabinet shop with big stationary tools and very good quality blades. But I also have a portable Bosh contractors 10" table saw a cheap Hitachi 10" chop saw and a 12" DeWalt chop saw I use for general construction. I usually just use the Hitachi because it is light and easy to move and does 90%of the work needed for general construction. I also would never consider putting an expensive blade on those tools the work they do doesn't require it and I am bound to hit nails or Staples with them. If I did that with an expensive blade it would be a big deal. With a 15 or 20 dollar one I just toss it and replace it.

Ashful · Jun 25, 2019

bholler said:
. I also would never consider putting an expensive blade on those tools the work they do doesn't require it and I am bound to hit nails or Staples with them. If I did that with an expensive blade it would be a big deal. With a 15 or 20 dollar one I just toss it and replace it.

Agreed. I was intentionally choosing one of the most expensive blades on the market to prove the point on cost difference. I usually run less costly blades on my compound miter and contractor’s table saw as well.

Forrest does make some great blades, though.

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