What kind of flame do you get when you "close it down"?

ChadMc · Dec 12, 2019

Hey guys, new to this site but have been getting some great info off here for a few months now. We just got a Regency F2400 freestanding stove and so far love it. Still learning the long burns and how to get the most out of the stove. When I get a pretty active a fire going with stove top temps climbing towards 500 I’ll cut the air back maybe a quarter at a time. I can maintain A secondary burn but once I close the air off the secondary only burns for a few more minutes. I’ve been nursing this process for about 45 minutes or so. I’ve checked it later and all the wood is chared and a hot coal bed and some of the bottom splits have a very small flame. Is that how it should look on a closed slow burn? The stove top temp seems to cruise at 300-400 for hours but not a very robust fire at all. I guess I’m burning clean and efficient!?!?

begreen · Dec 12, 2019

Try closing down the air sooner. The stovetop temp is not the best indicator, flue temp is often better. On a cold startup the stove top may only be 300, but secondary combustion may have started. It takes a while to warm up a cold stove body. And don't close it down all the way if it chokes the fire too much.

Ludlow · Dec 12, 2019

I run mine quite hot for awhile at the beginning of a load. I figure this is when most of the smoke and creo would develop so I get it in the upper burn range on my pipe gauge for a bit. Then I turn it down until there is both some flame and the secondaries are igniting. Later in the cycle you can have only secondaries but no active flame on the wood. I figure its OK because most of the vapor is gone. If I turn down too soon it will die out and no flame and no secondaries. I dont like that because I can feel the chimney clogging in my mind.

Every stove is different.

bholler · Dec 12, 2019

ChadMc said:
Hey guys, new to this site but have been getting some great info off here for a few months now. We just got a Regency F2400 freestanding stove and so far love it. Still learning the long burns and how to get the most out of the stove. When I get a pretty active a fire going with stove top temps climbing towards 500 I’ll cut the air back maybe a quarter at a time. I can maintain A secondary burn but once I close the air off the secondary only burns for a few more minutes. I’ve been nursing this process for about 45 minutes or so. I’ve checked it later and all the wood is chared and a hot coal bed and some of the bottom splits have a very small flame. Is that how it should look on a closed slow burn? The stove top temp seems to cruise at 300-400 for hours but not a very robust fire at all. I guess I’m burning clean and efficient!?!?

Forget about the stove top temp get a pipe thermometer. If you have single wall a simple magnetic one is fine. Double wall needs a probe. Run your stove according to that. Run it up into the upper part of the safe burn range then start shutting back. Keep it on the lower end of that range untill it is charcoal. Then it can drop.

blacktail · Dec 13, 2019

Not every setup and every load of wood will maintain a fire with the air all the way closed. Leaving the air open a small amount is pretty normal.

weatherguy · Dec 13, 2019

I usually turn mine all the way down unless its mild weather, then I leave it open a skoshe. Depends on your stove and set up. I get secondaries for awhile once its turned down.

ChadMc · Dec 13, 2019

Ludlow said:
I run mine quite hot for awhile at the beginning of a load. I figure this is when most of the smoke and creo would develop so I get it in the upper burn range on my pipe gauge for a bit. Then I turn it down until there is both some flame and the secondaries are igniting. Later in the cycle you can have only secondaries but no active flame on the wood. I figure its OK because most of the vapor is gone. If I turn down too soon it will die out and no flame and no secondaries. I dont like that because I can feel the chimney clogging in my mind.
Every stove is different.

I have been doing the same. Last night had a good burn. Closed it down slow and secondaries burned for quite a while. Came and checked on it late at night and flame was still strong. I’ve been waking up to a nice coal bed and clear glass so I can only think I’m doing ok!?

Grizzerbear · Dec 13, 2019

Sometimes it looks like the gates of hell have opened and other times it looks like northern lights. Just depends on a lot of factors. I would get a flue thermometer as others mentioned earlier.

ChadMc · Dec 13, 2019

I’ll look into the flue thermometer. When I do a new load I get smoke out of the chimney for a good 30-45 mins then starts to thin out. Again house is warm, glass is clean, and temps seem good. Just takes a while to get to that low steam look out the chimney.

agonyzhou · Dec 13, 2019

Ok, so one can tune the stove into an optimal burning condition. However, how do you know that the stove will stay at this optimal condition for hours? There is no feedback loop and we cannot stay at the stove to stare at the thermometer all the time, right?

I guess a good stove will correct itself so it stays in the "zone"? But what if there is a sudden environment change, like gusty wind changing the draft condition, log shifting in the fire and somehow block or unblock air intake, or some condition that I haven't consider. Will that "kick" the stove out of the "zone"?

It is not like I can do anything with my stove though.

Sawset · Dec 13, 2019

ChadMc said:
I’ll look into the flue thermometer.

Some flue thermometer ideas:

bholler · Dec 13, 2019

agonyzhou said:
Ok, so one can tune the stove into an optimal burning condition. However, how do you know that the stove will stay at this optimal condition for hours? There is no feedback loop and we cannot stay at the stove to stare at the thermometer all the time, right?

I guess a good stove will correct itself so it stays in the "zone"? But what if there is a sudden environment change, like gusty wind changing the draft condition, log shifting in the fire and somehow block or unblock air intake, or some condition that I haven't consider. Will that "kick" the stove out of the "zone"?

It is not like I can do anything with my stove though.

Generally once you get secondarys going and get it shut back to the point that works for your setup you don't have to touch it again untill you reload

agonyzhou · Dec 13, 2019

bholler said:
Generally once you get secondarys going and get it shut back to the point that works for your setup you don't have to touch it again untill you reload

When you say "generally", do you mean that there will be still cases that it could drift out of your intended burning condition? And it is a small chance, nothing shall go terribly wrong anyhow so people just don't care?

bholler · Dec 13, 2019

agonyzhou said:
When you say "generally", do you mean that there will be still cases that it could drift out of your intended burning condition? And it is a small chance, nothing shall go terribly wrong anyhow so people just don't care?

I say generally because I don't know your stove your chimney or your fuel so I can't just say it will be fine. The biggest problem comes from wet wood you get it burning and get it set then after you leave the wood actually dries and takes off.

You will eventually learn your system and get confident that you can leave it and it will continue to burn as intended

begreen · Dec 13, 2019

Generally, a small firebox stove will need more frequent tending than a larger one.

agonyzhou · Dec 13, 2019

I actually observed several burns completely from start to uninteresting coal bed, visually and with temperature sensors (My load is not full and burn time is short). I can usually "see" that there is a certain point, after which all logs in the stove are completely dry and burning. So if people wait until this point and set the air lever to the desired point, everything should be fine?

begreen · Dec 13, 2019

agonyzhou said:
So if people wait until this point and set the air lever to the desired point, everything should be fine?

There is no one set design, wood, setup or operation. Yes, I can go by visuals and you may be able to also, but after many threads on this topic I can be certain that doesn't work for everyone. Even so, I find I get better stove regulation going by the flue temperature.

EbS-P · Dec 13, 2019

I can burn most load with the air closed off all the way. Fames ony at the top of the fire box. I know it’s getting hotter when the turn less orange and really hot when they are blue. The flame shoot to the front of the glass but never look like they hit it unless it’s really going strong.

agonyzhou · Dec 13, 2019

begreen said:
I find I get better stove regulation going by the flue temperature.

The flue temperature is still an approximation, just like the stove top, what you really want is the temperature inside the combustion chamber at the tube (for a non-cat), am I correct?

bholler · Dec 13, 2019

agonyzhou said:
The flue temperature is still an approximation, just like the stove top, what you really want is the temperature inside the combustion chamber at the tube (for a non-cat), am I correct?

No what is important is keeping the chimney above the condensation point untill you are done burning off the volatile compounds in the wood that create creosote. I am sure you could fine tune things a bit better with internal temps like you said but it is not nessecary

agonyzhou · Dec 13, 2019

bholler said:
No what is important is keeping the chimney above the condensation point untill you are done burning off the volatile compounds in the wood that create creosote. I am sure you could fine tune things a bit better with internal temps like you said but it is not nessecary

You mean the temp at the top of the chimney? I think this is feasible to have a temperature sensor up top and transmit it down for a reading. More feasible than to get the temp at the tube which is not only inaccessible but also incredibly hot.

begreen · Dec 13, 2019

agonyzhou said:
The flue temperature is still an approximation, just like the stove top, what you really want is the temperature inside the combustion chamber at the tube (for a non-cat), am I correct?

A surface thermometer on a single-wall pipe is somewhat of an approximation but better than the stovetop which has the lag time of getting a lot more mass up to temperature. It's much less of an approximation with a probe thermometer.

bholler · Dec 13, 2019

agonyzhou said:
You mean the temp at the top of the chimney? I think this is feasible to have a temperature sensor up top and transmit it down for a reading. More feasible than to get the temp at the tube which is not only inaccessible but also incredibly hot.

You are really over thinking this

begreen · Dec 13, 2019

The thread kind of got hijacked. There is a world of difference between the two stoves. Hopefully, ChadMC got his question answered.

What kind of flame do you get when you "close it down"?

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