Reset time, now what
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Highbeam
Minister of Fire
They don’t complain about their own light pollution, they complain about the light from some idiot neighbors that leave flood lights on 24/7 lighting up the world at night. Or being near a city that is constantly lit up. The complainer has no control to shut them off.
If you think it’s not a problem then try sleeping with your bedroom lights on.
semipro
Minister of Fire
With all the medical supplies we're going through and the constant improvement of EV technologies and grid renewables I think we're going to want to use oil for plastics rather than transportation.
The Covid 19 pandemic has disrupted our power grid or transportation - not yet at least. I don't' think any real changes will come about until supply chains and power supply/distribution are significantly impacted with respect to duration and geographic extent.
The Covid 19 pandemic has disrupted our power grid or transportation - not yet at least. I don't' think any real changes will come about until supply chains and power supply/distribution are significantly impacted with respect to duration and geographic extent.
JotulOwner
Feeling the Heat
One can't exactly go the the local street light and turn it off. Nor can one turn off the lights at a Walmart parking lot. Better light design however does help and a lot of the new LED parking lot and street lights do a better job of pointing the light downward. In some parts of Europe the road and bridge lighting only comes on when a car or truck approaches.
LED's can actual be worse for light pollution, better reflector design is better regardless of the kind of light, but the blue colors from the LED bulbs are worse for light scattering.
en.wikipedia.org
Here's an article from Nat Geo on Calgary here is Alberta.
www.nationalgeographic.com
Skyglow - Wikipedia
Here's an article from Nat Geo on Calgary here is Alberta.
LED Bulbs Are Making Light Pollution Much Worse
Though energy-efficient, bright rays from LEDs are contributing to a host of human and animal problems.
I certainly was not suggesting that an individual could shut off the street lights or Walmart parking lot. If citizens were truly that harmed by light pollution why not band together and demand changes.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
The whole reason we are talking about this is because I said folks probably will do just what you said.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
My wife and I think government will be decentralized and with everyone figuring out they can do most work from home cities will become obsolete. Maybe we will return to a more agrarian lifestyle.
Well folks have been complaining for a goos long time and nothing has been done. Complaining without action is whining.
In several municipalities the new regs for lighting take this into consideration. This is usually due to citizen input. All the lighting I am seeing put in by the county at the ferry docks is now downlight only. In some places like Hawaii it's a state law.
Unfortunately on average a rural dispersed lifestyle consumes more resources per capita than a city dweller. A simple observation is roads and utilities need to be maintained to low density rural areas even though they will rarely be used if everyone works from home. There were some radical thinkers who popped up during the Peak Oil hysteria about 20 years ago that society would collapse and that the survivors would be rural self sufficient primarily agrarian communities using renewal energy. It was nice dream, to peddle books but it fundamentally meant that the world population would need a radical population collapse. Of course go back 20 years at the tail end of Earth day and the concept was Arcosanti https://arcosanti.org/ where people would build megacities surrounded by wilderness. A wealthy LDS (Mormon) dreamer was buying up land in Vermont for his version of New City based on LDS beliefs a few years ago based on large communal cities, he got driven out of the state and the project canceled. www.newVistas.com.
In a resource constrained world cities versus rural makes a big difference. Of course there are other concepts of dispersed living. Robert Heinlein's short science fiction story The Roads Must Roll envisions a different layout for society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll
Since I live in rural area that has had major economic displacement from the closure of close to all the major employers (3 papermills, one pulp mill and major reduction in staff at the remaining struggling papermill ina botu a 10 year period we have too much infrastucture and housing for the remaining population. We are 2.5 hours away from the thriving cities along the I 95 corridor. I have had several discussions over the recent years pre CV-19 with respect to what might drive the younger generation away from the cities. My speculation was a high profile dirty nuclear device or a manmade toxin attack on a couple of cities would do it, I was close with the toxin except most indications are its a natural event that evolved to fit crowded urban settings. If one looks at the current distribution of cases, rural and poor (unable to do recreational travel) is not a bad thing until the city folks escape into the country.
In a resource constrained world cities versus rural makes a big difference. Of course there are other concepts of dispersed living. Robert Heinlein's short science fiction story The Roads Must Roll envisions a different layout for society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll
Since I live in rural area that has had major economic displacement from the closure of close to all the major employers (3 papermills, one pulp mill and major reduction in staff at the remaining struggling papermill ina botu a 10 year period we have too much infrastucture and housing for the remaining population. We are 2.5 hours away from the thriving cities along the I 95 corridor. I have had several discussions over the recent years pre CV-19 with respect to what might drive the younger generation away from the cities. My speculation was a high profile dirty nuclear device or a manmade toxin attack on a couple of cities would do it, I was close with the toxin except most indications are its a natural event that evolved to fit crowded urban settings. If one looks at the current distribution of cases, rural and poor (unable to do recreational travel) is not a bad thing until the city folks escape into the country.
jebatty
Minister of Fire
I recently returned to home in the US from Akumal, Mexico (just before the Covid stay at home measures were being implemented) and three things that impressed me: 1) the street lighting was LED and directed downward; 2) the lighting was dimmed if no car or person was in proximity to a street lighting fixture; and, 3) that when a person or car approached a lighting fixture it went to bright, returning to dim after passing.
As for residential living in a rural area, which is where I live, our county sheriff advises against dusk to dawn outdoor security lighting, indicating that from a security perspective, all night lighting does is a very good job of lighting the exterior of a home so that a burglar can easily see where to break in and then see without use of a flashlight to roam the house. The sheriff advocates outdoor security lighting to be on motion detectors so that light is there to assist the homeowner with safety lighting for entering or leaving a home, or other out-building, but then to turn off.
As for residential living in a rural area, which is where I live, our county sheriff advises against dusk to dawn outdoor security lighting, indicating that from a security perspective, all night lighting does is a very good job of lighting the exterior of a home so that a burglar can easily see where to break in and then see without use of a flashlight to roam the house. The sheriff advocates outdoor security lighting to be on motion detectors so that light is there to assist the homeowner with safety lighting for entering or leaving a home, or other out-building, but then to turn off.
If that's true, then why do you moan and groan every time there is a gov't funding cut of some green energy subsidy?
Green energy is highly subsidized. Getting rid of all subsidies would probably hurt green energy more than oil.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
What action would you propose folks should have done/do about it besides make their voices heard?
Individual complaining does nothing. Organize, start with a petition to present to community leaders. Letters to the editors of the local papers, make the movement known.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Your ignorance on the topic notwithstanding, those things are already happening. The fact that you've heard of light pollution at all is evidence. Again, I think a major outcome of this pandemic is going to be a totally different attitude on pollution. Just because you disagree doesn't mean things aren't happening. There are some people that don't believe in this current pandemic, but that doesn't stop it from happening.
Ignorance? Turn down the pomposity. Most of what I have heard about light pollution has been people talking about it on internet forums. Not a real news talking point don't see stores on the news or in newspapers. I do not think light pollution would make it in the top 10 of urban dwellers concerns.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
You're the one that accosted me about the topic in the first place when you don't know anything about it.....
I have accosted no one, certainly did not resort to name calling. Did a google search on top 10 concerns of people living in urban areas, light pollution was not mentioned.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
You did accost me, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening. I didn't say light pollution was the largest problem facing people. You brought the focus onto light pollution after I mentioned it in passing. Never once did I claim that light pollution was the largest issue facing people in urban areas, just that it was an issue.
Also, pointing out your ignorance on a topic does not mean I'm name calling. You simply don't have much knowledge on the topic, as in ignorance being defined as not having knowledge on a topic.
Ignorance? How much research have you done since you started complaining. Did a goole search on light pollution and there is not a single mention in any mainstream publication, news source etc. exception is nat geo, and those articles are not current.
Let me guess anyone who's mindset does not align with your prejudices is ignorant.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Dude, you are the one hung up on this. All of my replies for the last few days have been about you getting stuck on light pollution. I only brought it up because folks on social media are actually seeing the night sky far more clearly than they have in the past, and it's a direct result of less light and air pollution. If that's not a big deal for you, fine, whatever. I moved out of the city to have a clearer view of the night sky. Where I live the milky way is visible on a clear night.
