3 attempts to light my stove

[jmcp]

1st attempt failed to light,automatic igniter stove shut down about 15 minutes later.
Tried again same thing happened.
3 rd attempt we got the stove going I am wondering should I put a paper napkin in the burn pot so that when the pellets fall on the napkin it would be easier to ignite the paper first which in turn might ignite the pellets.Anyone out there see my logic.
mt vernon non ae

 

[smoke show]

well, you shouldn't have to do that.

hows it burn once its going?

I'd make sure there isn't ash build up around the ignitor.

 

[jmcp]

Once it going its fine it is just a problem on start up.Nothing worse than switching on the stove and 15 minutes later you come back and it has shut down.Again once I get it going there is no problem.

 

[jtakeman]

What stove do you own?

Try placing pellets in the burnpot on the next startup. If it works and you own a quad open the fuel gate some.

 

[DobieMom]

If you have a Quad use the reset button to reset the ignitor and see if that helps the firing process

 

[jmcp]

Its a quadrafire mt vernon yes I hit the reset button after it shut down twice without igniting.Third reset it lit but that is nearly a 1/2 hour to light the stove I am wondering if there is anything I can do to make the pellets ignite quicker.

 

[jtakeman]

Are we talking once it runs out of fuel/empty hopper? If so I would prime it with some pellets added to the burnpot.

 

[imacman]

These are known good/dry pellets, and not old leftovers? The burn pot and ignitor are in the proper position?

BTW, please put the make/model of your stove in your signature line for future reference (so we don't have to keep asking).

 

[Bkins]

Lots of the Mt Vernons have this problem in the shoulder seasnon. Until the weather turns cold where your running the stove a lot I would suggest putting a small handful of pellets into the burnpot and the stove will light off. In the shoulder season I put a handfull in each time I clean the pot. Shouldn't be this way but it is. Lots of people on the I burn corn forum have asked the same question as did I when the stove was new to me. The stove doesn't seem to get enough pellets on very cold startup. You might also try setting the stove on very high for the startup and then turn it down once its lites off. If there is any kind of warmth in the stove this won't happen.

I don't think a napkin would work as you need prolonged heat not just a quick flash and its gone.

 

[jmcp]

Quadra-Fire MT.Vernon
Full bag of pellets in the hopper just as well its not that cold but if this starts happening at 20 degrees it will not be very pretty around here with 2 teenage daughters and one teed off mom.

 

[jmcp]

Sometimes I do throw a handful of pellets in the burnpot before startup.

 

[DexterDay]

If its a non AE, then its fairly old... When was the last time the ignitor was replaced? My guess is you need s new ignitor. That many mis-fires in a row with a primed auger.

 

[Bkins]

guess is you need s new ignitor.

Has nothing to do with the ignitor. The ignitors work fine and almost all Mt Vernons do it. Its a stove brand thing. There are not enough pellets put into the burnpot. What is put in gets lit and then goes out before the thermocouple senses enough heat.

 

[DexterDay]

guess is you need s new ignitor.

Has nothing to do with the ignitor.... almost all Mt Vernons do it. Its a stove brand thing.......

Have you seen his ignitor?? Cant rule anything out. Would not hurt to check it.. These things do go bad. I had onlu 2 or 3 misfires near the end of the season. I replaced mine. 3 yrs is not bad and I am sure his is older.

If he is throwing pellets in the burn pot and/or reseting, therr should be plenty of pellets. Quads all start up on a timer, this timer is consistent every time the stove is lit. The only thing that will change is the feed plate. If he is having mis-fires because there is to few pellets, then increase the feed amount and lower your heat setting by one level. I never use more than Low on my CB 1200 and I am heating just shy of 2,200.

Only reason I say ignitor is.....

A.- Quads (especially Mt. Vernons) have had some issues on them (lots of posts here)

B.- If he had reset it 3 times.... By the 2nd time there should have been plenty.

Owning a Quad myself, I can say the the thermocouple reacts rather fast once the pellets are lit.

Everyone has an opinion. If you have not personally checked his stove, then you are jumping to conclusions (making assumptions) Albeit rude to disregard ones opinion, when the OP has not checked. I didnt say, " I dont think its (fill in your idea here), because...."

It could be a few things... Maybe he has a leak and the stovr senses enough vacuum at start up, but then loses it... Its a far fetch, but possible.. We wont get a better handle until some questions are answered..Like..

1.- Where is your feed plate and have you tried to adjust it?

2.- When was the last time the ignitor was replaced and how old is the unit in question..

 

[Bkins]

guess is you need s new ignitor.

Has nothing to do with the ignitor.... almost all Mt Vernons do it. Its a stove brand thing.......

Have you seen his ignitor?? You can't see anything on a ignitor, they need to be electronically checked unless they have a hole that can be seen.

As I posted it is a known situatuion with the Mt Vernons, non AE. You can replace the ignitor all you want and it won't have any effect on it. And YES DexterDay I have tried that. As I stated it has nothing to do with the ignitor. On top of that ignitors generally either work or they don't.

If he is throwing pellets in the burn pot and/or reseting, therr should be plenty of pellets.

The poster didn't say the stove didn't start after throwing the handfull of pellets into the burnpot.

I never use more than Low on my CB 1200 and I am heating just shy of 2,200.

We are not talking about a CB 1200 but a Mt Vernon non AE. Totally different stove. There is no sense comparing your stove or situation with his.


Only reason I say ignitor is.....

A.- Quads (especially Mt. Vernons) have had some issues on them (lots of posts here)

Again, we are talking about a non AE which has not had ignitor problems. Yes, there have been problems with a lot of things on the early AE versions.


B.- If he had reset it 3 times.... By the 2nd time there should have been plenty.

You must not of read what was posted. The amount of pellets that are put in the burnpot, on cold startup, are burned up and they don't start stacking up. They go on the startup cycle. If the poster has hit the startup cycle 3 or 4 times the stove will start as there would be enough heat generated by the 3rd time to allow the stove to keep running.


Owning a Quad myself, I can say the the thermocouple reacts rather fast once the pellets are lit.

Again you can't compare what you have to what he has just because their made by the same company. The timing devices are different and the burnpots are different. Location of the thermocouple may be different also. I guess I could say that because I own a Chevy Chevette that I know what the problems are with a Chevy Corvette. It doesn't work that way.

Everyone has an opinion.

I would listen to your opinion if you had the same model stove and had gone through the steps to try to correct this known situation with the Mt Vernon non-AE stove.


If you have not personally checked his stove, then you are jumping to conclusions (making assumptions)

Again, this is a known situation with this model stove. It is not a assumption when they all do it. I do not need to check his stove as there is nothing to check. Since you seem to be willing to send the poster on a goose chase maybe you need to do some homework on this model stove and not make assumptions yourself. Do you own a Quad Mt Vernon, non-AE and have you experienced this situation?


It could be a few things... Maybe he has a leak and the stovr senses enough vacuum at start up, but then loses it... Its a far fetch, but possible.. We wont get a better handle until some questions are answered..Like..

1.- Where is your feed plate and have you tried to adjust it?

Feed plate can be set wide open with no effect in the situation. It is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE.


2.- When was the last time the ignitor was replaced and how old is the unit in question..

Not sure why you think a older stove has anything to do with this problem. Is that one of your fixes to just replace the stove with a new one? What is the point of replacing the ignitor, when its working properly other then throwing parts into the stove trying to guess at the problem.

To JCMP.

What you are experiencing is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE. It only will happen at the beginning of the heating season on cold startup. Once the stove has started and run to get a small amount of heat into the stove the situation goes bye-bye and the stove will operate properly the rest of the heating season.

 

[DexterDay]

guess is you need s new ignitor.

Has nothing to do with the ignitor.... almost all Mt Vernons do it. Its a stove brand thing.......

Have you seen his ignitor?? You can't see anything on a ignitor, they need to be electronically checked unless they have a hole that can be seen.

As I posted it is a known situatuion with the Mt Vernons, non AE. You can replace the ignitor all you want and it won't have any effect on it. And YES DexterDay I have tried that. As I stated it has nothing to do with the ignitor. On top of that ignitors generally either work or they don't.

If he is throwing pellets in the burn pot and/or reseting, therr should be plenty of pellets.

The poster didn't say the stove didn't start after throwing the handfull of pellets into the burnpot.

I never use more than Low on my CB 1200 and I am heating just shy of 2,200.

We are not talking about a CB 1200 but a Mt Vernon non AE. Totally different stove. There is no sense comparing your stove or situation with his.


Only reason I say ignitor is.....

A.- Quads (especially Mt. Vernons) have had some issues on them (lots of posts here)

Again, we are talking about a non AE which has not had ignitor problems. Yes, there have been problems with a lot of things on the early AE versions.


B.- If he had reset it 3 times.... By the 2nd time there should have been plenty.

You must not of read what was posted. The amount of pellets that are put in the burnpot, on cold startup, are burned up and they don't start stacking up. They go on the startup cycle. If the poster has hit the startup cycle 3 or 4 times the stove will start as there would be enough heat generated by the 3rd time to allow the stove to keep running.


Owning a Quad myself, I can say the the thermocouple reacts rather fast once the pellets are lit.

Again you can't compare what you have to what he has just because their made by the same company. The timing devices are different and the burnpots are different. Location of the thermocouple may be different also. I guess I could say that because I own a Chevy Chevette that I know what the problems are with a Chevy Corvette. It doesn't work that way.

Everyone has an opinion.

I would listen to your opinion if you had the same model stove and had gone through the steps to try to correct this known situation with the Mt Vernon non-AE stove.


If you have not personally checked his stove, then you are jumping to conclusions (making assumptions)

Again, this is a known situation with this model stove. It is not a assumption when they all do it. I do not need to check his stove as there is nothing to check. Since you seem to be willing to send the poster on a goose chase maybe you need to do some homework on this model stove and not make assumptions yourself. Do you own a Quad Mt Vernon, non-AE and have you experienced this situation?


It could be a few things... Maybe he has a leak and the stovr senses enough vacuum at start up, but then loses it... Its a far fetch, but possible.. We wont get a better handle until some questions are answered..Like..

1.- Where is your feed plate and have you tried to adjust it?

Feed plate can be set wide open with no effect in the situation. It is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE.


2.- When was the last time the ignitor was replaced and how old is the unit in question..

Not sure why you think a older stove has anything to do with this problem. Is that one of your fixes to just replace the stove with a new one? What is the point of replacing the ignitor, when its working properly other then throwing parts into the stove trying to guess at the problem.

To JCMP.

What you are experiencing is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE. It only will happen at the beginning of the heating season on cold startup. Once the stove has started and run to get a small amount of heat into the stove the situation goes bye-bye and the stove will operate properly the rest of the heating season.

Never said to buy a new stove. To simply check the ignitor. No need to be rude.. Read what I wrote. Nothing to the extent of replacing the unit. An ignitor is $40 (if it needs it?) If he cant afford $40, then how did he get the stove. These are mechanical and electrical devices, that Do Go BAD.. I guess the Non AE's just last Forever... Just an opinion. Because he has not answered, and you have had this problem, does NOT mean you are right. Nor does it mean I am right. We are here to give him different avenues. Only takes a minute to do a lamp cord test on an ignitor and it would rule it out.
I wouldnt put up with a stove that had this problem "when its cold".. First I have read of this here. Although I have seen many posts about Quad ignitors.. For All models. These stoves are timed at start up. If it was as simple as pellets? Couldnt he just increase the feed plate a little? The stove always starts in High. Regardless of what setting you have it on. Feed plate dictates fuel supply to pot.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Once it going its fine it is just a problem on start up.Nothing worse than switching on the stove and 15 minutes later you come back and it has shut down.Again once I get it going there is no problem.

Have you changed brands or started using another lot of pellets which are longer in length? Sounds like you aren't getting enough fed in for the start up. Or like was said, your air holes could be clogged up.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Not sure why you think a older stove has anything to do with this problem. Is that one of your fixes to just replace the stove with a new one? What is the point of replacing the ignitor, when its working properly other then throwing parts into the stove trying to guess at the problem.

To JCMP.

What you are experiencing is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE. It only will happen at the beginning of the heating season on cold startup. Once the stove has started and run to get a small amount of heat into the stove the situation goes bye-bye and the stove will operate properly the rest of the heating season.

Sorry, but I agree with DexterDay. One other thing is the condition of the door gasket, if it's old. You could be drawing more air through the door gap than through the hole past the igniter. Being OLD has a lot to do with possible causes. As I well know, OLD is a groan!

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

guess is you need s new ignitor.

Has nothing to do with the ignitor.... almost all Mt Vernons do it. Its a stove brand thing.......

Have you seen his ignitor?? You can't see anything on a ignitor, they need to be electronically checked unless they have a hole that can be seen.

As I posted it is a known situatuion with the Mt Vernons, non AE. You can replace the ignitor all you want and it won't have any effect on it. And YES DexterDay I have tried that. As I stated it has nothing to do with the ignitor. On top of that ignitors generally either work or they don't.

If he is throwing pellets in the burn pot and/or reseting, therr should be plenty of pellets.

The poster didn't say the stove didn't start after throwing the handfull of pellets into the burnpot.

I never use more than Low on my CB 1200 and I am heating just shy of 2,200.

We are not talking about a CB 1200 but a Mt Vernon non AE. Totally different stove. There is no sense comparing your stove or situation with his.


Only reason I say ignitor is.....

A.- Quads (especially Mt. Vernons) have had some issues on them (lots of posts here)

Again, we are talking about a non AE which has not had ignitor problems. Yes, there have been problems with a lot of things on the early AE versions.


B.- If he had reset it 3 times.... By the 2nd time there should have been plenty.

You must not of read what was posted. The amount of pellets that are put in the burnpot, on cold startup, are burned up and they don't start stacking up. They go on the startup cycle. If the poster has hit the startup cycle 3 or 4 times the stove will start as there would be enough heat generated by the 3rd time to allow the stove to keep running.


Owning a Quad myself, I can say the the thermocouple reacts rather fast once the pellets are lit.

Again you can't compare what you have to what he has just because their made by the same company. The timing devices are different and the burnpots are different. Location of the thermocouple may be different also. I guess I could say that because I own a Chevy Chevette that I know what the problems are with a Chevy Corvette. It doesn't work that way.

Everyone has an opinion.

I would listen to your opinion if you had the same model stove and had gone through the steps to try to correct this known situation with the Mt Vernon non-AE stove.


If you have not personally checked his stove, then you are jumping to conclusions (making assumptions)

Again, this is a known situation with this model stove. It is not a assumption when they all do it. I do not need to check his stove as there is nothing to check. Since you seem to be willing to send the poster on a goose chase maybe you need to do some homework on this model stove and not make assumptions yourself. Do you own a Quad Mt Vernon, non-AE and have you experienced this situation?


It could be a few things... Maybe he has a leak and the stovr senses enough vacuum at start up, but then loses it... Its a far fetch, but possible.. We wont get a better handle until some questions are answered..Like..

1.- Where is your feed plate and have you tried to adjust it?

Feed plate can be set wide open with no effect in the situation. It is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE.


2.- When was the last time the ignitor was replaced and how old is the unit in question..

Not sure why you think a older stove has anything to do with this problem. Is that one of your fixes to just replace the stove with a new one? What is the point of replacing the ignitor, when its working properly other then throwing parts into the stove trying to guess at the problem.

To JCMP.

What you are experiencing is a known situation with the Mt Vernon, non AE. It only will happen at the beginning of the heating season on cold startup. Once the stove has started and run to get a small amount of heat into the stove the situation goes bye-bye and the stove will operate properly the rest of the heating season.

Why would that make a difference?...Is it not a cold startup after every cleaning??? I don't see how that could make a difference. I apologize if I am missing something but I would think the first burn of the season and in January after a cleaning the burnpot should be about the same temp...unless you don't allow the stove to cool to clean safely.

 

[Bkins]

If he was having other problems other then on just cold startup I would of kept my experience to my self.

Known situation for the Mt Vernon.

DexterDay, I am note being rude to you in any way, shape or form. You have made statements and suggestions about the age of peoples stoves on this post and others. Go ahead and open the feed rate on your Mt Vernon and tell me what happens. Sorry you don't like my experienced reply of not throwing parts, an ingnitor, into the stove when its not needed. Go do some research on the subject and post what you find out. You will need a Mt Vernon stove to gain the experience that I am posting from. This will be my last post in response to you. I don't wish to drag this forum down because of something like this.

The situation only happens when the outside temp is not real cold and one is trying to start the stove. Happens with Santa Fe's and Castile's too. Once the temp drops, or some heat gets in the stove the stove operates correctly. Notice how the poster stated after the 3rd try the stove took off as there now some heat in the pot and the stove stays going.

Sorry to the rest of the forum members for my refusal to agree with DexterDay. My comments are from experience with this stove and not a general catch all for all stoves. Each one is different in how it was designed and how it operates.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Well, we managed to scare off or turn off the OP since he is not answering my PM's. I can't really blame him since he wasn't getting the attention he needed. Read back over the posts and do some soul searching to see what the problem was. We need to take better care of those asking for help.

 

[Bkins]

He was given good information in the first 4-5 posts. I will repeat for the last time that it is a known situation with certain earlier model Quads. It is a design flaw in the stove on cold start up when the stove is set on the low setting, and cold start up. The control board doesn't dump enough pellets into the burnpot on the very lowest setting. It doesn't happen every time but usually does until its really cold out and most likely the situation doesn't resurface again because the stoves are being run more often and there is some heat in the stove. If the poster had said there were other problems re-lighting or other running problems I would be on board for doing other checks to find out why.

The whole situation goes bye-bye by setting the stove on a higher setting for cold start ups and then turning it down.

If the rest of the regulars here want him to replace the ignitor, door gaskets, thermocouple and what ever else I'm not going to say any more about it. I have given very good information for the brand and model of stove and this information comes from my experience trying to chase down this flaw early on. If you don't want to use this experience I can't help you.

 

[jtakeman]

Its been warm out, I'm sure the OP has not had a chance to try all the suggestions. He'll be back! Bestest place on the planet for hearth advice IMHO.

Seeing Bkins suggestion is free, I'd take a crack at it. If turning it up to a higher setting didn't work. Next free thing would be to ohm out the igniter and see what a new one has to compare. I'd be trying every free thing I could.

yup extremely frugal me is ;-) Or is that cheap?? I keep forgetting.

 

[tjnamtiw]

As was pointed out earlier, no matter the heat setting, on initial start-up the stove starts in HIGH and feeds the higher amount of pellets. That's why the stove's feed rate should be calibrated on HIGH as per the manual. My stoves call for a 4" flame (average) when set on HIGH. The AE calls for an 8" flame height. You adjust the feed slide to achieve that height, as suggested. Then when you run on lower settings, the feed rate should be OK. One good hint as to the REAL PROBLEM is that the OP said that after about 15 minutes, the flame goes out. That coincides with when the stove drops from the HIGH setting back to what ever it's set at. Again, possibly pointing to miscalibration of the feed gate; however, in MY investigations in trying to run at LOW settings on my Quads, I found that the closing of the vacuum switch when the exhaust fan is running on LOW is hit or miss. Sometimes it closes and other times it doesn't. That would lead to a loss of feed and shut down.
Now if you compound this borderline situation with a leaky door gasket, an almost empty pellet hopper, or leakage at the burn pot, you could very easily not have enough vacuum to keep your feed going and go into shutdown. It appears that once he is up and running, things are fine. Perhaps heat expansion has closed those gaps? Or there are just enough pellets to keep things borderline.
I am assuming that the non-AE has similar logic to the Castile and Sante Fe.

 

[DexterDay]

As was pointed out earlier, no matter the heat setting, on initial start-up the stove starts in HIGH and feeds the higher amount of pellets. That's why the stove's feed rate should be calibrated on HIGH as per the manual. My stoves call for a 4" flame (average) when set on HIGH. You adjust the feed slide to achieve that height, as suggested. Then when you run on lower settings, the feed rate should be OK. One good hint as to the REAL PROBLEM is that the OP said that after about 15 minutes, the flame goes out. That coincides with when the stove drops from the HIGH setting back to what ever it's set at................

Yep. They revert to High on start-up. Regardless of heat setting it is on. The auger is on a timer for start up. The only thing that regulates the amount of pellets is the feed gate/slide plate.
Once the fire has established the stoves goes into the heat setting selected.
Although I dont own a Mt Vernon, I do understand that all Quads use majority of the same parts and all have the same basic operating system. Much of these parts can still be used on the older Contour, 800, and 1000 series Quads. May take an update, but still possible.