About to install a Greenwood 100

[westchewuch]

Just about to turn a plumber loose setting a newly purchased Greenwood 100 in the rear of my heated attached garage with a 6" flue cut in through the roof (GW literature said 6" is adequate and hope so for a straight vertical run). The unit will back up a buderous fuel oil boiler heating a four year old home enclosing 3000 sf. I am not running glycol in the home. Note: The GW 100 is sited indoors as I had the indoor space, didn't want to run glycol, and like to load a furnace first thing in the a.m. and last thing at night and don't want to throw on my arctic gear to do so.

I've been reading the threads and the problems everyone seems to be having with draft, with the company (neither the company or the dealer returns calls and the one plumber who has experience with 1/2 dozen installs is 16 units backlogged.

I may drag a plumber / fuel oil boiler guy over this weekend to do the layout and tie into my existing system. Any suggestions or must do's to properly install the unit? Can I dump excess heat to simple slant fin in a loop or might it be best to dump the heat to a rarely used zone in the slab of the basement?

Thanks for any help. We are already seeing -20f up this way and it would be nice to get into that long line of dry wood I've been accumulating since purchasing the boiler this spring.

Any fyi's or warnings before I potentially mess things up?

 

[trailhound68]

Insulate the U/G tubing well. Have your pump properly sized. Measure your draft. Put guages in key spots. keep your return temps up. be prepared to make changes. get ready to shuck some wood. don't be afraid of large rounds. measure your draft. check stack temps. clean heat exchangers. experiment. get up middle of a 0 deg night. shuck some more wood. clean out the ash. duck under the smoke plume.
What did I forget guys?

 

[DKerley]

Here is a picture of my install. It is a GW200 in an attached garage. Don't forget to have a way of umping the heat if the power goes out. I open my garage door when loading the boiler to let the smoke out.

 

[sixroses]

Your greenwood will do great but there are concerns. If you are using a knowledgeable plumber he will be able to handle the install. The dump zone in a rarely used slab will absorb all the heat you can put to it. I installed a attic fan and some duct work over the door tied to a timer to pull the smoke outside when I fill the stove. When filling with birch you can't help some smoke pouring out. Been burning with mine for 3 winters in Wasilla and have gotten my natural gas bill down to under 25.00 per month. That includes cooking and haot water for 3 girls and a wife. I have added 800 gallons of storage and am still tinkering but it is paying for itself now...
Steve

 

[westchewuch]

Thanks guys.

Brought the GW 100 on line yesterday. Went pretty well. 7 am to 2:30 pm to get it plumbed in and filled. Will post a photo as I think the install is sexy as can be. I did my four fire warm up process and began to put real heat to it last night.

I need to get an aquastat installed to dump heat as I saw 230f on the gauge when no zones called for heat. I'm running a closed pressurized system with two 30lb expansion tanks (one on the GW, one on my fuel oil fired boiler) and two pop offs (one on each unit) and did not have a pop off issue even with the temp spike.

I'm hearing I should buy an APC battery back up capable of running both the GW circ pump and controls AND my (to be created) dump zone pump (a 2700 sf basement slab that would normally never call for heat). Any suggestions here?

Smoke... well, yep !! Even with the draft open and a man door cracked 6"!! In fact there was a gap on the rear of the unit of about 1/4" which was pulsing out smoke. Filled the gap with high temp silicone (located down low to the level of the flue exit). Seemed to be a construction fit issue or a gap caused by shipping.

I also swapped the oem control for a honeywell. The local GW guy said four of four oem units from GW were found bad.

GW literature said a pint of water would condensate out. Seemed to be more of a quart +. I thought I had a leak somewhere.... and the unit has been in a dry climate in a garage all summer !!??

I turned my Buderous down to 140f as a back up. Running the GW honeywell control at 180f. Seems to want wood when at around 150f. Return temps all holding fairly consistent to feed out... although it is only -2f today and zones are note calling for heat (I don't think my garage will call for heat again with the GW installed in the garage). We'll see how she does at -65f. I'm hoping for cold for the first time going into winter.

Kind of like this silly GW boiler. She has personality. She was rumbling a bit this a.m. (She might want more make up air)..... now I just have to get the wife to appreciate the fact are home is starting to smell like a cabin......

By the way.... at $4.00 gallon fuel oil you should see the degrading air quality here in Fairbanks, Alaska. There have been literally thousands of wood burning boilers purchased (most outdoor units) and a ton of wood stoves. We have a huge air inversion problem. It looked like a hot day in Bangkok on my way in to work this morning...... glad I live in the hills.......

 

[SE Iowa]

I have two questions for the experts. How/What/Who determines if a boiler can be placed in an attached garage? Is the greenwood 200 in the picture vented out the sidewall? I assumed you needed a vertical flue. I thought that the Garn and maybe one other boiler (can't remember name) were the only one's able to vent out a sidewall?

 

[westchewuch]

I ran my flue straight up through the roof. Really quite easy if done in the summer with a 3-tab roof. A straight vertical run drafts well and is easy to clean. Use liberal quantities of ice and water sheild on the roof deck near the flue for possible or likely icing around the flue in snow country.

Attempting to attach my this weekend install photo. Not sure if you have to open it or if it will display. hmmmm.....

 

[johnnyb]

Have you determined what type of battery back up to get? I have a wirsbo control panel for my system and also a buderus. Having trouble determining what type I need, modified sine wave or pure sine wave inverter. called wirsbo and they weren't even sure. Expensive control to fry or expensive inverter if not necessary. what do you do?

johnny b

 

[2.beans]

ive installed a couple of setons with the chimney thru the wall. works good. when you plumb stuff try to keep in mind of future add ons like solar or storage tanks. good luck. oh yeah ,definitly have a back up for power outages. mine got so hot once it unsweated the pipes and burned the paper off the sheet rock.sweeeeeet.

 

[westchewuch]

How hot did she get? Any idea? I presume you had a load of wood and she dampered down when you lost power.

Anyone know a good battery back up and supplier? I need to run two Taco pumps a switch box and two aquastats. I've heard APC makes one you can add sections to. I'm hearing $400+.

Also, for the folks running mixing valves are they aquastat controlled? I have a hand set mixing valve and I'm seeing a loss of supply temp past the mixing valve when three of four zones call for heat and a run up in supply temp past the mixing valve when only one zone calls for heat. Trying to figure out the best method to both balance and battery back up the system (it's day three for me playing with valves and watching guages).

 

[2.beans]

i wasnt home when she was pissed. im a lineman for the local power company so i was out working. do you think you need a mixing valve? im not convinced on that yet. i dont use one. my return temp right now is 160 and my tank supply is 200.

 

[westchewuch]

Curious to know what everyone is using for back up power supply? Seems things could get pretty interesting pretty quick without a dump zone AND back up power. Is anyone using the APC battery back up? Is there an alternate unit worth considering?

 

[antknee2]

Hear is one of my fail safe system I use a solar controller with one sensor right on the Setons output pipe as close as possible to the the boiler , other sensor on a 120 gallon Super Store tank aquastat well , which is located mid point on the tank . Then I installed a separate circulator pump from the seton to the Super Stores built in heat exchanger . Both the circulator pump and the solar controller are plugged into a UPS designer to protect a computer . With in a millisecond of a power failure the solar controller takes over and watches for a deferential , as the Seton refractory / output pipe heat up the controller turns on the circulator to the Super Store heat exchanger an instantly cools the boiler down even if the tanks are up to temp . Also in line with the solar controller I have a Honeywell strap on Aquastat ,mounted on the Seton boiler output pipe set at 175 f , it acts as a low limit so more energy is sent to my home for immediate use and once the Seton is producing over 175 degrees ,the circulator kicks on a stores the energy for when the fire is out . I like the solar controllers because you do not waste electric and ware on your pumps they only run when there is a differential .
Anthony

 

[DKerley]

I use a "550 watt Surefire Stove Sentry" (inverter/battery charger) and a deep cycle marine battery to supply instantaneous back up power to the greenwood. When the power goes out, I have a zone valve that opens to allow flow through 16' of baseboard fin mounted above the greenwood. Last week during a 45 minute power outage, the greenwood 200 with a partial load of wood in it, peaked at 245 deg with the pressure rising from 15 psi to 20 psi. No drama except for the wife calling me on the cell phone asking me what she should do since she was home and I was not. I said "no worries" It will take care of itself......

 

[Bearpaw]

Well.. I am on my second year with a Greenwood 100 .. 3400 sq ft home in extreme Northern MN.. many days at -40 below.. I can not stress enough about burning good seasoned dry wood!... for any boiler or wood stove for that matter..On the coldest of days, I can usually go 8-10 hrs before putting in more wood... It is great having the Grenwood in the attached garage..i was so impressed with the Greenwood , I took on the dealership for Northern Minnesota.. I have a 30 plate HX... and I am running an open system...this supplies all of my heat and DHW.
As far as a dump zone goes.. simple is better.. I wired a box to the wall ( four outlets)that is energized by the strap on aquastat on the top boiler tube. when the boiler temp reaches 192-195 F.. It snaps on and energizes the wall outlets.. I have a Taco 007 that is turned on and pulls the hot water through the plate exchanger to an Old cast Iron radiator that I cleaned and restored properly..I also have a simple fan attached behind the radiator that is plugged in the energized outlets blowing on a low speed through the radiator. This works excellent and pulls the exess heat off the boiler nicely.. I could send pics if you wish. Also, plugged into the energized box is a very low wattge colored bulb that tells me that the boiler is dumping... I am kind of a hydronic junkie, But it lets me know what is going on.

 

[Bearpaw]

I would suggest the "Stove Sentry" inverter and a damn good deep cycle battery..Alternative Heating & Supplies in CT.. Great folks and know their stuff!... I have tested mine several times and it works great for me..

 

[sparke]

Just curious if anyone has a gravity feed dump zone. If so, how well does it work?

 

[westchewuch]

Greenwood up and running, back up power for the primary pump in place, and doing quite well. A few issues.... Any suggestions from anyone?:

- Possible overdrafting. Any thoughts as to using a barametric damper vs. an in flue cast iron flow regulator?

- Lagging heat transfer as the winter season progresses forward. Any thoughts on sooting of the manifold and how often to brush? (I'm burning very dry spruce but did note soot build up which was noteworthy in the single wall flue, about a gallon+ when brushed. Assume possible build up on manifold as well).

I have almost made it through winter with very little fuel oil consumption from my fuel oil fired boiler (now a back up only) and very happy to enjoy 75f heat inside the home and darn near 90f in the garage. I just have to find a paint color for the garage that matches "smoke".

Thanks for any input.

Side note: Gravity fed dump zone seems to make a lot of sense but Greenwood was still trying to come up with something viable this past fall. We have a local metal fabricator who may be building a gravity fed tank. A battery back up running a single pump for a dump zone plus the primary controls on the Greenwood seems to work although no significant power outages yet to test it. Two expansion tanks and pop off valves are my back up to my power suppply back up.....

 

[2.beans]

ive run a barametric in mine ,and ive got one installed in my father inlaws now. i put a flue damper in mine that opens and closes with the draft door. i think i like that better. when it warms up and i can let the boiler go out for a couple of days im going to install a better flue damper made from stainless steel. with having battery back up i would keep a close eye on the battery. mine was junk and i didnt know it so when we lost power it unsweated my pipes again while i was at work. the boiler sure is tough.

 

[djblech]

I took my barometric damper out. It was so full of creosote it quit working. I had about 6' of chimney above my garage, not enough. Added 3' more and it works much better. I may have a little overdraft on really windy days but most of the time I get good burns with nice white ash. I stoked at 7:30 today and had 170* when I got home at 5:30. Started at -10 this am. I am running out of wood, only have about 2.5 cords left. Bearpaw where are you located? How come I didn't hear about you as a dealer? I'm about 25 miles S of Duluth.

djblech
Greenwood 100
Stihl 170 and 360
Kioti dk45 and dump trailor
120 acres of woods 3 miles from home

 

[Bearpaw]

Well.. I live by a small town called Grygla.. Actually live out in the Beltrami forest area (near (Fourtown)... When did you buy your Model 100? and from whom?...Been a Greenwood and Profab dealer for approx. one year.. I am working dillegently at creating some wood Biomass equipment for the logging industry up here... Is Bruno near Finlayson?? I have friends there..