About Warranties

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
There are some deceptive practices out there from some stove shops, whether intentional or out of ignorance we cannot be sure. Not to suggest that any of this is supported by the manufacturers, but who knows.

Only manufacturer trained installers or service people can install, repair or maintain the stove or the warranty is void
Only authorized branded parts from the manufacturer can be used for repair or the rest of the stove warranty is void


All written warranties need to abide by the laws established by the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) and the rules governing such as written by the MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY ACT of 1975.

Some key points to consider can be found in § 700.10 Section 102(c)

(a) Section 102(c) prohibits tying arrangements that condition coverage under a written warranty on the consumer's use of an article or service identified by brand, trade, or corporate name unless that article or service is provided without charge to the consumer.

(b) Under a limited warranty that provides only for replacement of defective parts and no portion of labor charges, section 102(c) prohibits a condition that the consumer use only service (labor) identified by the warrantor to install the replacement parts. A warrantor or his designated representative may not provide parts under the warranty in a manner which impedes or precludes the choice by the consumer of the person or business to perform necessary labor to install such parts.

(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, “This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized ‘ABC’ dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine ‘ABC’ parts,†and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102 (c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of “unauthorized†articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such “unauthorized†articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.



Additionally, in any warranty where the language may be unclear, liability is to the warrantor.

Lets look at a few....

Travis (Lopi and Avalon)

Mail your Warranty Card Today, and Save Your Bill of Sale. To receive full warranty coverage, you will need to show evidence of the date you purchased your heater.

Are suggesting that the "LIMITED WARRANTY" which the stove comes with may be a "FULL WARRANTY" with your receipt? A requirement that the consumer return a warranty registration card or a similar notice as a condition of performance under a full warranty is an unreasonable duty. Thus, a provision such as, “This warranty is void unless the warranty registration card is returned to the warrantor†is not permissible in a full warranty, nor is it permissible to imply such a condition in a full warranty.

This new appliance must be installed by a qualified installer. It must be installed, operated, and maintained at all times in accordance with the instructions in the Owner’s Manual. Any alteration, willful abuse, accident, neglect, or misuse of the product shall nullify this warranty.

No definition included for qualified installer. Also violates section 102c

If you discover a problem that you believe is covered by this warranty, you MUST REPORT it to your Travis dealer WITHIN 30 DAYS, giving them proof of purchase, the purchase date, and the
model name and serial number.


The warrantor may not impose any duty, other than notification, upon any consumer, as a condition of securing the repair of any consumer product that malfunctions, is defective, or does not conform to the written warranty.

HHT (Harman, Quad, Heatilator

Warranty is void if...installation or use of components not supplied with the appliance or any other components not expressly authorized
and approved by HHT


Stove shops will often use this to sell you the venting for the installation as "authorized". Violates section 102c.

AES (American Energy Systems)

Read pade 42 of this link...there is so much wrong with this warranty. I like the part about a 5 year warranty less one year for since manufacture. If you buy a new AES product be sure to ask what year it was made before you take delivery!!! They also say you have to go through your selling dealer for claims nad have them out to look at it, but they also sell direct online. hmmmmm?

this is whacked..http://www.americanenergysystems.com/Stock/LibraryFiles/MagnumBabyCountrysidemanualrev60526101.pdf

Enviro
Pretty good warranty, though they also mention a qualified installer. They do however include service for 2 years to replace parts. There is a schedule of fees but could not find it. I know they pay me $45 bucks per service call. Whoopie.

 
I get the point of your post, but............

I have a stand alone wood stove, not a pellet stove. There is very little that can go wrong really. Especially from a mechanical point of view.
That's one of the reasons I didn't go the "Pellet Stove" route. I don't want to have mechanical things to think about.
It is not my desire to slam the folks who DID buy Pellet Stoves. It just wasn't right for me to buy one. I like the idea of having a box that holds burning wood, and channels the smoke out the top of the house............period. Nothing more, nothing less.

-Soupy1957
 
Well, your stove new would have a warranty too. Certainly we wouldn't want those welds breaking, or a leg falling off or perhaps the glass cracking.

As this time of year rolls in and people start looking for newer equipment, I thought I'd get a discussion going about warranty.
 
I'm not sure about the legalities, but I think the reason most MFG's throw the 'Authorized installation Technician' clause in there is to protect themselves of nightmare installation by home owners.

I'm sure you have your own horror stories Scott, but how many times have I taken service calls where the customer swore up & down they followed the instructions for venting only to find out a basement installation on 3" with 5 elbows and 6 feet of horizontal... and yet they will insist 'till they are blue in the face it still is the stove's problem and want me to take it back.

People are people and will do whatever they want, but it costs my company time for me to drive 3 hours there and back plus one hour on site. There goes an entire day and good luck squeezing $45 out of the consumer.
 
smwilliamson: Totally understand. I think it an important discussion for those who HAVE "Pellet Stoves" or are considering them.

Truth be told, even wood burning stove installations need proper installation and proper maintenance. Ignorance (willful or otherwise) is NEVER a good excuse of course.

"Pay me now, or pay me later" (the slogan for an automobile Service group who's name I don't recall, comes to mind here), is really what its all about in the end.

"Buyer Beware" (what the Latin for that?) is another one.

-Soupy1957
 
FyreBug said:
I'm not sure about the legalities, but I think the reason most MFG's throw the 'Authorized installation Technician' clause in there is to protect themselves of nightmare installation by home owners.

I'm sure you have your own horror stories Scott, but how many times have I taken service calls where the customer swore up & down they followed the instructions for venting only to find out a basement installation on 3" with 5 elbows and 6 feet of horizontal... and yet they will insist 'till they are blue in the face it still is the stove's problem and want me to take it back.

People are people and will do whatever they want, but it costs my company time for me to drive 3 hours there and back plus one hour on site. There goes an entire day and good luck squeezing $45 out of the consumer.

I hear ya. You company sells a few lines, both dealer and non-dealer supported. I imagine the dealer supported lines have less consumer warranty claims. Dealers are good, don't get me wrong. Mostle waht I'm getting at....warranties cannot be used to leverage additional sales of goods or services.

if dealers are involved, id like to see a FULL WARRANTY issued. That would keep the customer loyal for sure. May be bad for my company.....but good for the consumer!
 
Not sure what you mean by "Full Warranty". All warranties have to be limited otherwise we would have to give a brand new stove to someone who decides to take a blow torch to his.

We have a company who offered Full Lifetime warranty on their workboots 20 years ago in our area. I have a buddy who's in concrete who gets a brand new pair every year on warranty ever since. That company pulled that warranty after one year...
 
FyreBug said:
Not sure what you mean by "Full Warranty". All warranties have to be limited otherwise we would have to give a brand new stove to someone who decides to take a blow torch to his.

We have a company who offered Full Lifetime warranty on their workboots 20 years ago in our area. I have a buddy who's in concrete who gets a brand new pair every year on warranty ever since. That company pulled that warranty after one year...

You can have a full warranty for a year or two...it doesn't have to be lifetime.
 
Beware a "lifetime" warranty, doesn't mean something is warranted forever, it means that it is warranted for the lifetime OF THE PRODUCT . . .which, unless otherwise defined, is typically interpreted to be 7 years when challanged in court, thus, a "lifetime" warranty is a 7-yr warranty
 
Jonas said:
Beware a "lifetime" warranty, doesn't mean something is warranted forever, it means that it is warranted for the lifetime OF THE PRODUCT . . .which, unless otherwise defined, is typically interpreted to be 7 years when challanged in court, thus, a "lifetime" warranty is a 7-yr warranty

That is true... legally a 'lifetime' warranty in the USA is 7 years. In Canada it is 25 years. I believe the ruling came from various industries lobbying for (correct me if I'm wrong) and terms of limitations on how long they could provide parts for their product. However, we have stoves and other units much older than 25 years and we still take care of them...
 
smwilliamson said:
FyreBug said:
Not sure what you mean by "Full Warranty". All warranties have to be limited otherwise we would have to give a brand new stove to someone who decides to take a blow torch to his.

We have a company who offered Full Lifetime warranty on their workboots 20 years ago in our area. I have a buddy who's in concrete who gets a brand new pair every year on warranty ever since. That company pulled that warranty after one year...

You can have a full warranty for a year or two...it doesn't have to be lifetime.

We more or less do on Enerzone pellet stoves (Except for paint, gasket and other consumables). It still has to be 'Limited' ie. wont cover bad install, poor maintenance etc...
 

Attachments

  • warranty.png
    warranty.png
    21.7 KB · Views: 403
soupy1957 said:
I get the point of your post, but............

I have a stand alone wood stove, not a pellet stove. There is very little that can go wrong really. Especially from a mechanical point of view.
That's one of the reasons I didn't go the "Pellet Stove" route. I don't want to have mechanical things to think about.
It is not my desire to slam the folks who DID buy Pellet Stoves. It just wasn't right for me to buy one. I like the idea of having a box that holds burning wood, and channels the smoke out the top of the house............period. Nothing more, nothing less.

-Soupy1957

You picking on pellet burners again?

Until you can load that wood stove once every 24 hours, quit it.
 
BrotherBart said:
soupy1957 said:
I get the point of your post, but............

I have a stand alone wood stove, not a pellet stove. There is very little that can go wrong really. Especially from a mechanical point of view.
That's one of the reasons I didn't go the "Pellet Stove" route. I don't want to have mechanical things to think about.
It is not my desire to slam the folks who DID buy Pellet Stoves. It just wasn't right for me to buy one. I like the idea of having a box that holds burning wood, and channels the smoke out the top of the house............period. Nothing more, nothing less.

-Soupy1957

You picking on pellet burners again?

Until you can load that wood stove once every 24 hours, quit it.

He can pick on us all he wants.

We don't pay any attention to his ramblings except to poke at him through the bars of his cage.

How ya doin' Soupy?
 
Some of this warrantee stuff really depends on the dealer at hand. I bought an internet stove. Enviro does not like this and If my selling dealer didn't help when I had issues. It would all be out of my pocket. But my dealer stood by his sale and took care of my issue as if I was just down the street. I had to do my own debug and parts replacement. But I knew it going into the sale!
 
We'll just pretty much warranty anything anyone buys from us regardless of who installed it unless it was installed outside of manufacturer specs. We'll sometimes cover it a little outside the stated warranty.

Warranty issues are always considered a loss on our end unless it is a Enerzone or PSG product. Those two manufacturers (same parent company) have the best warranty program I have every seen during my 27 years in the business.
 
I just sold my Harman Accentra and initially told the buyer the warranty was transferrable. I found that this is only the case if the stove stays where it was originally installed. IThis means the buyer would have had to purhcase my house for the warranty to be transferrable.
 
Cincinnati Kid said:
I just sold my Harman Accentra and initially told the buyer the warranty was transferrable. I found that this is only the case if the stove stays where it was originally installed. IThis means the buyer would have had to purhcase my house for the warranty to be transferrable.

They call that an up-sell. "Would you like a house with that? Supersize?"
 
Limited warranties generally have to do with the fine print. YEARS ago I used to sell electronics, tv's, stereo's, etc. and most manufacturers only covered "mechanical, and moving parts" which was buried in the warranty legal lingo somewhere. Fortunately in Maine, there are no implied or limited warranties ~ that's the part of the legal lingo where it says your rights may vary from State to State. With warranty claims, when in doubt always contact your State Attorney General's Office, or threaten to with the manufacturer. You would be surprised at the results you get!
 
I have been dealing with HHT for the past couple years. I have never had a warranty issue that they would not cover. They have even gone to bat for their stoves that were out of warranty. I have worked with other stove companies that would not cover parts under warranty and you have to jump through hoops to get help from those stove companies. That is why I sell the best stoves. Selling garbage does not help anyone. Saving a couple bucks at first can lead to problems.

Eric
 
Status
Not open for further replies.