Alderlea T5: baffle falls down during burn?

[phoenixheater]

We're just starting our third season with the T5, and are loving it. Have had more than a spot of bother with the various chimney guys we've dealt with though...

Here's our latest issue, which I'm hoping someone might be able to shed some light on.

We had a couple of guys come out to clean the chimney last weekend. They seemed to know what they were doing, cleaned the outside pipe, and then came in and took the inside pipe out to clean it, replaced it, and thoroughly shop-vacced out the interior of the stove while they were at it. After they left, we had an overnight burn with no problems. However, this weekend, about an hour into our second burn, the baffle suddenly fell down on top of the burning logs!

Needless to say, this was a bit of a surprise. We managed to get the larger pieces of wood out and let the fire go out. Upon inspection, we can't find the baffle pin anywhere. (Or a gasket of any kind.)

So, of course we are tempted to think the guys did something to it, but I'm not sure what or how... and we've wondered if maybe they even vacuumed the pin up somehow? But this seems very far-fetched. Could the baffle have even stayed in place for a week without the pin in place? Is it even possible with how it's configured? (I never got up there and looked at how it was before it fell apart, so I'm not even sure.)

So before I call them, I thought I'd ask if anyone here has ever experienced something similar, or if you have any thoughts about what might have happened, or how we should proceed. I know several of you have taken this thing apart and put it back together several times. Because we have an inside elbow in our interior pipe, we've just been taking the pipe off to clean and so haven't messed with or even particularly thought about the baffle at all.

Many thanks for any ideas.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Pin or no pin, your baffle shouldn't have been able to just drop down like that. Let your stove go cold, and look inside, and up near the top of the firebox. You'll see two side ledges and a rear ledge. Hold the baffle with the rectangular hole and mounting tab at the rear and pointing down, then angle the right edge up past the right side ledge high enough that the left edge clears the left ledge. Lower it down so it rests on both side ledges, then push it all the way back onto the rear ledge until rectangular opening sits over top of the air supply tube and the mounting tab touches the rear wall. The hole in the tab should automatically center on the corresponding mounting hole in the backplate.

If you tend to overstuff your firebox so the wood lifts the baffle, stick a bolt through the hole in the mounting tab until your dealer can get you a replacement pin and baffle gasket. When they arrive, just lift the rear of the baffle, slide in the baffle gasket so it lines up on the air supply tube, lower the baffle and insert the new pin.

 

[begreen]

Man, that sounds like they had a kid doing the job. This is almost impossible unless the baffle was replaced cockeyed and in front of the secondary air feed tube. Seems like a total space out.

When relocating the baffle (and pin) make sure they didn't mess up the side insulation strips too. As Tom mentioned, nake sure they don't forget the little gasket that goes around the secondary air tube that feeds the baffle.

 

[phoenixheater]

Hi Tom and BeGreen,

Tom, thanks very much for the detailed instructions! We weren't sure how exactly it went back together, since we never took it apart.

BeGreen, here's the thing: the kid didn't take the baffle apart. To my knowledge, it has never been taken apart. So I don't know how it came loose and how the pin has gone missing.

Is there any cause for deeper concern here, given that it seems to have just collapsed on its own?

 

[SKIN052]

Only one way to be sure, post pics and we can slowly diagnose the issue or call in your installer and have them take a quick look. I have no idea how it would be possible for the whole baffle to fall down unless he took it out to help with cleaning and then did not put it back aligned correctly.

 

[begreen]

It's hard to imagine they did a thorough cleaning of the stove without pulling the baffle. It's the easiest way to sweep the flue on this stove. This sounds like some kid forgetting to tighten the lugnuts on the wheel after fixing a flat. (Or in the case of my wife's car, forgetting to tighten the oil pan plug after an oil change. )

 

[BrotherBart]

This thread is giving a deja-vu moment. One morning I walked down to the office in the basement to find the cast iron baffle in the F100 laying flat on top of a mess of coals. Longest burn that little sucker ever gave me. Fortunately it didn't hit the glass.

And it was the first fire after a chimney cleaning. I didn't put the thing back in right.

 

[phoenixheater]

Well, the chimney guys called me yesterday. They assured me they didn't take it apart. My best hypothesis now is that maybe the stove shipped without a pin inside, and the guys dislodged the baffle when they were vacuuming around. But who knows.

At least they are taking a responsible approach...they are going to contact the dealer and get a pin and some advice on whether there might be any other irregularities to look for, and then come over and look at it with us.

One other question for you all: they did STAND on the stove when they were putting the interior pipe back together. Is that bad?

Thanks for all your help!!

 

[snowtime]

One thing not mentioned is the gasket on the side of the baffle holds the baffle rails away from the side of the stove. This makes sure the baffle has enough support and will not fall. If there is no side gasket for baffle the rails will eventually move toward the side and the baffle will fall. This is why a side baffle gasket is slit down the middle to let you place 1/2 behind the rail and the other half folds onto the top of rail. Those cleaners could of sucked the gaskets away which would allow the baffle to fall at a later date.
Order new side baffle gaskets , I am not sure if you have to get the whole gasket kit. If you have problems installing them we will help. Of course you need a pin as well.

 

[phoenixheater]

Hmmm...interesting possibility. We did find some frayed up material inside the stove and wondered if it was from the gasket.

Is this side gasket the same thing that other threads have talked about making out of rope gasket material, or is it something different?

 

[snowtime]

No the side gasket is not the same thing. There are 3 gaskets and an insulation blanket in the stove. The insulation blanket is inside the stainless baffle and is protected so should not be a problem. The rope replacement gasket is for placing over the rear air intake before putting the baffle back in [it fits over this square steel protrusion on the top back shelf].
The gaskets I am talking about fill a void where the baffle meets the side walls. The baffle is a box [with the blanket inside] with a section of straight edge on each side. There should be a white gasket on top of this stainless edge. Open the door and look up at the baffle you should see a material on the top edges. If not maybe its missing. Anyway the side baffle is a piece of material the depth of the stove that is slit about 3/4 through. One side of the slit goes between the side rails and the side of stove. The other folds on top of baffle side plate.
This is all easy for those who have everything installed from factory as we just looked at it to replace after cleaning. If someone removed or vacuumed the gaskets out of position then it takes a while to understand whats happening. I seem to remember some pics on here and will try to find them.
On the left is the rear rope gasket which completely covers the rear air box protrusion. This is just to be more durable than the factory gaskets which are fine in fact if you forget this gasket the stove will probably run fine. The pic on the right shows just the front end of a side gasket if you look close you will see that it is both on top of the side rail and down beside it. Hope this helps.

 

[Offset]

I know this is a very old thread but I wanted to add my experience to this issue. We bought a T5 two years ago and had the same thing happen, the baffle fell down into the fire one night. I thought it was just the wood falling over so imagine my surprise. When we installed the stove, I found the pin in the bottom of the unit but thought it was something from shipping, however I did keep the pin. I suspect that the whole unit came loose in shipping. Should I have known? Maybe, but the instructions really don't say much about it.

We always had trouble with the stove smoking when the door was opened and had contacted Pacific Energy via their website about the cause of this excessive smoking. They never bothered to respond. When we got the baffle back into place, securely locked it was like we were dealing with a different stove altogether. The smoke stopped, wood consumption dropped dramatically. It bothers me that companies have "contact" tabs but never bother to respond. I really like this stove but I would not recommend it to anyone else, it really bugs me that they did not respond. The dealer we bought from is no better. I call them to ask about anything and the first thing they say is "we did not install it". They wanted $700.00 for a job that took us 30 minutes to do (connected to existing chimney all well within the specifications of PE).

So that is my story, happy with the stove, it performs very well. I am not at all impressed with Pacific Energy.

 

[Hogwildz]

Your supposed to contact your dealer with issues.

 

[Offset]

Thats fine to say contact the dealer but as I stated the dealer would not help with anything. The "we did not install it" response seemed to cover all the bases but it was funny they never mentioned that when we paid for. As for not contacting Pacific Energy then why would they have a "contact us" button on their site?

Not an issue now and it is doubtful I will ever need to contact either one of them again.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like installer error. For the baffle to fall down it needs to be unpinned, completely lifted off the secondary tube and cockeyed on the support rails. Making sure the stove is ready to burn (firebrick and baffle in place) seems incumbent on the installer.