Building a House....Picking a New Stove. Cat or Non-Cat???

[BurnIt13]

I got my feet wet in 2011 when I bought and installed an Englander 30. Love the stove. However, at the time I was on a shoestring budget and needed to get an affordable stove. We chose the Englander 30 to keep the house warm for my pregnant wife and soon to be born son. It has its quirks but it is an excellent stove for the price.

Fast forward a little bit and I may be selling our existing house and building a new one! I have the opportunity to buy the wood stove I want to get instead of the one I can afford to get. The stove purchase will likely be rolled in to the mortgage as part of the building costs. The house will be a 2000sq.ft. two-story that will be insulated to the gills. Its a fairly open concept and I'd like the wood stove to do most if not all of the heating.

So....here is what I want:
1. Large firebox. 2.5cu.ft or bigger.
2. Efficient enough to easily do overnight burns.
3. Easy to operate.

What are the major drawbacks to having a stove with a cat? Sure it is another piece to replace but does the chimney stay cleaner or does it get dirtier due to the lower output temps? Should I got cat or non-cat?

Your advice is much appreciated? What stove would you buy if you could get the one you want?

 

[firebroad]

Wiser heads than I can correct me if I am wrong, but the upside of a cat is that it will burn cleaner (provided you use dry wood, of course), and you will probably get more heat out of it. Downside is you have fool with replacing the blankity-blank element every so often, which can be an expense, and also you will not really get the nice flames you were used to looking at. But most Catalytic fans love their stoves.

 

[begreen]

Lots of discussion on this topic in previous threads like this one:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/more-cat-vs-non-cat-literature.88368/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-non-cat-pros-and-cons.87312/
this one compares the 30NC to a Keystone
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-non-cat-half-time-report.79181/

Search on "cat vs" for many more.

 

[dafattkidd]

First good luck with this whole process. Sounds very exciting and I hope it all goes well for you.

My favorite units aesthetically are the Quadrafire 7100 fireplaces. The only drawback with these units is if the power goes out they don't put out the kind of heat a stand alone stove would.

As for stand alone stoves there are so many to choose from it really comes down to what you think looks best in your house. I tend to like the more modern looking stoves.

As far as performance you can't beat a Blaze King. The single drawback of the cat as I have seen is you have to make sure your wood is fully seasoned or it will gunk up your cat. So be sure to have plenty of space to store firewood.

Hope that helps. Of course if you're designing a house put that wood heater in a central location.

 

[begreen]

I would advice getting a heating analysis done early on in the planning stage. That will determine the heat loss of the building which will help you size the stove. A modern, well-built, sealed and insulated building will use a lot less energy to heat. You may be fine with a ~2 cu ft stove in spite of living in a cold climate if the house is built right for energy savings.

How will the building envelope be insulated and sealed? If you haven't perused this website already I think you will find a lot of good information here: http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/more-topics/homeowner_resources

 

[dafattkidd]

If you're looking for input on "what stove would you buy?" you may want to edit out the part of your opening statement that asks the questions about cat vs noncat and just research that in the links provided by begreen.

 

[Ashful]

Another factor, perhaps already mentioned in the threads begreen referenced, is that you'll be very limited in your choice of stoves if you decide you want a cat stove. They're simply not mainstream at the moment. Hopefully that will change.

 

[eclecticcottage]

Stove choice is a personal thing...it really depends on your decor, budget and personal preference for design.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with mine. I *LOVE* the Woodstock stoves but they are too ornate for my cottage decor, and the clearances don't work for me. I *LOVE* the Thelin, but I need more burn time. I am not sure about the BK Sirocco. I have never seen one in real life and would love to hear from owners about real world experiance for burn time and heat output. Plus I am not sure about the flame issue as someone else brought up (viewing the flame, lenght of time it looks like a "wood fire" so to speak). The Sirocco is probably the only other stove I would have considered, had it been on the market when we bought the Lopi.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Wiser heads than I can correct me if I am wrong, but the upside of a cat is that it will burn cleaner (provided you use dry wood, of course), and you will probably get more heat out of it. Downside is you have fool with replacing the blankity-blank element every so often, which can be an expense, and also you will not really get the nice flames you were used to looking at. But most Catalytic fans love their stoves.

Sue, it appears you don't have much experience with a good cat stove.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

So....here is what I want:
1. Large firebox. 2.5cu.ft or bigger.
2. Efficient enough to easily do overnight burns.
3. Easy to operate.

What are the major drawbacks to having a stove with a cat? Sure it is another piece to replace but does the chimney stay cleaner or does it get dirtier due to the lower output temps? Should I got cat or non-cat?

Your advice is much appreciated? What stove would you buy if you could get the one you want?

You have quite well described a Woodstock stove with your list. To add to it, the Progress Hybrid also can come with a cook top.

I won't touch too much on the cat vs. non-cat except to say that most things you hear or read about cat stoves are pure bunk. I recall when shopping for our last stove being a bit afraid of a cat stove. Seems I too had heard and read some bad press about cat stoves and there were some bad ones on the market for a time. But like automobiles, someone might buy a Ford (or Chevy or ....) and have some bad luck with it. Does that make all Fords bad? I think not.

We got a cat stove and we did have to learn a bit to run it properly but the learning curve was pretty darned short. You asked about the chimney staying cleaner. That is a good question and I'm glad you asked. With our previous stove, we used to clean our chimney 4-6 times each winter. We've had our Woodstock Fireview, a cat stove, for 5 full winters now. We've cleaned our chimney one time. It is still clean.

Taking care of the cat is really tough....if you listen to some. It takes me less than 5 minutes to clean the cat. It is done once during the normal summer cleaning and again mid-winter. We use an old paint brush to brush the fly ash from the cat. Usually there is very, very little to brush off. It is easy. Let the stove get down to coals; a little more than you would for reloading the stove. Of course the manual states to let the stove get cold. We simply wear welder's gloves, the same ones we use when loading the stove. Lift the cat out, take it to the porch and brush it. Lay cat back in and close the lid. Reload the stove and you are done.

 

[firebroad]

Sue, it appears you don't have much experience with a good cat stove.

You are correct, I do not!

 

[BurnIt13]

Thank you for the replies! I apologize for not being so clear with my question. I am not looking to debate which is better, cat or non-cat. I am looking for a new stove and want a good one for my application....

Here is my short list:
Napoleon 1400 - 2.3cuft
Quadrafire 4300 StepTop - 2.4cuft.
Woodstock Progress Hybrid - 2.8cuft.
Blaze King Princess - 2.8cuft.
PE T6/Summit - 3.0cuft
Hearthstone Mansfield - 3.2cuft

I love the set it and forget it feature of the BK. I also love the look of the Hearthstone stoves, specifically the techy features of the hybrid Progress. I'll have to read up on that one.

Hmmmmm. One thing that worries me is that during the shoulder seasons with well insulated house I might have to run the stove too low to avoid cooking myself out.

 

[eclecticcottage]

We just burn a smaller fire in shoulder season. Our stove is techincally oversized for our Sq Ft, but it works fine for us.

Of your list my personal choice would be the Woodstock Progress because it combines a lot of things (looks, cat and secondary burn technology). It does depend a bit on location since it's a side loader though.

 

[begreen]

That is a broad range of stoves. Get the house's heat load calculations done. You may be able to work with an Alderlea T5 or a Fireview. Also look at the Enviro 1700 series. Maybe a Boston?

 

[firefighterjake]

Thank you for the replies! I apologize for not being so clear with my question. I am not looking to debate which is better, cat or non-cat. I am looking for a new stove and want a good one for my application....

Here is my short list:
Napoleon 1400 - 2.3cuft
Quadrafire 4300 StepTop - 2.4cuft.
Hearthstone Progress Hybrid - 2.8cuft.
Blaze King Princess - 2.8cuft.
PE T6/Summit - 3.0cuft
Hearthstone Mansfield - 3.2cuft

I love the set it and forget it feature of the BK. I also love the look of the Hearthstone stoves, specifically the techy features of the hybrid Progress. I'll have to read up on that one.

Hmmmmm. One thing that worries me is that during the shoulder seasons with well insulated house I might have to run the stove too low to avoid cooking myself out.

Uh . . . I think you mean the Woodstock Progress Hybrid . . . unless Hearthstone is now working with their rival?

Looks like you're mostly looking at steel and stone stoves . . . no cast iron?

Burning in the shoulder season is easy with just about any stove and any house . . . there is a learning curve though of knowing how much wood to put in to warm the place up, but not overheat the place . . . and then knowing when to reload and when to simply let the hunk of stone, steel or cast iron radiate the heat out and heat the place up without loading it up again.

 

[BurnIt13]

Uh . . . I think you mean the Woodstock Progress Hybrid . . . unless Hearthstone is now working with their rival?

- Ooooopss. You're right, just a typo....corrected above.

 

[Jags]

I don't know if it has been remedied or not, but the 4300 has had some bad press on cracks in the steel. Just say'in.

BG is right - the reality right now is that you don't really know how much firepower you are going to need. I am guessing that with the 3.0 cuft stove, you will want a stove that can easily be controlled. The progress would be on my really short list. The T6 and the Mansfield are heating beasts if need be and I think (BG can confirm) the T6 can be tuned down well.

 

[mellow]

Set and forget - Blaze King if you can get it past the wife (statement based on current lineup of stoves)
Nice looks that gets wife's thumbs up - Woodstock

 

[BurnIt13]

You know....the more I look into things and read some previous threads...I think I want a cat. I want essentially low and slow with a clean chimney at the same time.

The two stoves that stick out are the BK Princess Ultra and the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

• I like the BK because it is tried and true. Long burn times are not too difficult at all. I set the thermostat, the BK takes care of the rest. Downside is that the styling looks like it came out of the Brady Bunch's house, but I can live with that.
• The Woodstock Progress Hybrid is a neat piece of technology. It is gorgeous and the even heating of the soapstone is a nice plus. Seems as though it takes a bit more of a learning curve to get the longer burn times. I'll have to research this one a bit more to see how people are doing it.

My wife is not too much trouble when it comes to the look of the stove. Given the choice, she would pick the Woodstock but as long as it keeps the house warm she won't really care.

 

[Ashful]

Brady Bunches house... Well put! Same issue I'm struggling with now. Looks vs performance, as with wives and cars, we always want both in one package.

The "learning curve" of which you speak is half the fun of heating with wood. Don't let that scare you, you'll figure it out in good time. Bottom line is they're both cat stoves. I wonder how long it will take some stove manufacturers to wake up and recognize the potential market they're ignoring by only making non-cat's?

 

[eclecticcottage]

I imagine this will be in a living space and not a basement?

Do you plan to live there for a long time, long enough that if you pick function over form it won't be too big of a negative for resale value? Let's face it, even if you and you're wife think the BK is ok, you even said it's outdated looking. If you plan on reselling at some point, it might be something to consider. There are a lot of people that don't really think much of the styling of a BK...whereas I don't hear too much negative about Woodstock stoves.

I think ALL (wood) stoves have a learning curve.

 

[daleeper]

You know....the more I look into things and read some previous threads...I think I want a cat. I want essentially low and slow with a clean chimney at the same time.

The two stoves that stick out are the BK Princess Ultra and the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

• I like the BK because it is tried and true. Long burn times are not too difficult at all. I set the thermostat, the BK takes care of the rest. Downside is that the styling looks like it came out of the Brady Bunch's house, but I can live with that.
• The Woodstock Progress Hybrid is a neat piece of technology. It is gorgeous and the even heating of the soapstone is a nice plus. Seems as though it takes a bit more of a learning curve to get the longer burn times. I'll have to research this one a bit more to see how people are doing it.

My wife is not too much trouble when it comes to the look of the stove. Given the choice, she would pick the Woodstock but as long as it keeps the house warm she won't really care.

Couldn't miss with either the Princess or Progress, but look at the Sirocco and Chinook from BK, as they have a different look but same features, with the exception that the Chinook is a bit smaller than you might want. The BK stoves have the low slow burn you want for the shoulder season, should not burn you out, and have the thermostatic control. Do make sure you have dry wood available to burn.

 

[BurnIt13]

To answer some questions....yes this stove will be in the living space. Picture of intended floor plan below...

We'll be here for many years, I'm only 31 and I don't see moving any time soon.

I'm really digging the super long burn times of the Blaze Kings. The more I read the more I like the simplicity and ease of use.

The more I read about the Progress is that it seems more like a non-cat stove with a cat as a helper. Still a great stove, just not as long a burn time as a true cat stove. Doesn't seem to be one of the best secondary burners or the best cat burner, just somewhere in between.

Now I just have to figure out if I'd go with the King or the Princess......

Here is the floor plan for the first floor (1010sq.ft). Overall square footage will be 2020sq.ft.

 

[Ashful]

Couldn't miss with either the Princess or Progress, but look at the Sirocco and Chinook from BK, as they have a different look but same features, with the exception that the Chinook is a bit smaller than you might want. The BK stoves have the low slow burn you want for the shoulder season, should not burn you out, and have the thermostatic control. Do make sure you have dry wood available to burn.

The link to the Sirocco stove is broken on the BK website, but that certainly appears to be a pretty darn small stove for someone considering the Princess or Progress. No?

 

[jeff_t]

The current Sirocco is 1.8 cu ft. There is rumor of a Sirocco 30 for this fall.

As for King vs Princess, if you look at BK's propaganda, which seems fairly honest, the low output BTUs are very similar. I know that when I get mine settled in, it burns for a loooong time at 300-350°. I think it mostly depends on how much room you have. The King is a big unit.