building a rustic woodshed, questions

[OhioBurner©]

Ok, so I’ve wanted to build a woodshed for a while, just dont have much $$$ to invest in the project. I was thinking, since I am attempting to make a log boom for my small tractor I might be hauling more logs out of the woods rather than rounds and might be able to use some to make an inexpensive timber framed woodshed. I’ve never really made an actual structure before so not sure about the codes and such, but around here they are pretty lenient and my neighbor who happens to be the code enforcement guy says I can build just about any small shed I want and he would just call it agricultural and no permits are required I guess.

For my first question, I am debating on which trees to use for the framing. My idea here is there are a lot of standing dead locust. Being very strong and rot resistant would this be a good choice? I’ll probably sink them 36†in the ground, on top of a cement donut, and back fill with gravel. Is that the usual procedure? I’m pretty sure that how they built the pole barn out back. Like I said there is lots of dead locust, and many in smaller sizes. What would be a good size? 6-8†diameter be sufficient for the posts and beams? I’ve seen metal strapping used to connect the posts and beams, is this something I can pic up at lowes or the local hardware store?

I’m thinking around 8’ wide and 16’ long (I’ll have to double check the area - tearing down an old chicken coup and this will be going up in its place). Maybe about 6’ high in back and 8’ or so in front? Probably will just use 2bys for the roof and some scrap metal roofing I already have. But what size 2bys? Calculating the interior volume stacked 6’ would give me a max of 6 cord, that should be good for a years supply, plus what I can put on the porch of the house too.

 

[pen]

I'd definitely use locust. Not sure if you'd be better off using living or dead trees for this purpose though.

For something 8 foot wide w/ 3/12 pitch I'd say 2x4's should be fine running with the roofing unless you don't get a ridiculous snow load. But even then, just go out and pull it off, it's only 6-8 feet up.

Are you going to put a pole in the center or try and span 16 feet?

pen

 

[golfandwoodnut]

If you have alot of locust then that is a no brainer, they last as fence posts forever. I am not sure if you might want to coat the underground pieces with tar or some preservative (I have read somewhere where you can get a rubber spray). The hardest part will be getting straight ones for the beams so the roof will be straight. Also I would think you would want the bark removed. You will still need to figure out some sort of roof. Metal would be a nice option, but you will still need to run joists. So I guess you a really only saving on the posts and the beams.

 

[Wood Duck]

I think Locust is the best choice for posts because it lasts a long time. Six inch is probably fine, but larger is better as long a the posts are solid with no center rot. I would not bother with gravel to backfill. I would use a mix of the soil that I excavate to make the hole and about 25% portland cement. Mix the soil and cement thoroughly and pack it is the hole, and you'll be fine.

I would look at 2x6s for the roof. I'd rather not worry about snow load or walking on the roof, etc. I don't think 2x6 are too much more money than 2x4.

I think you should be able to find metal strapping at a hardware store. Try to find a couple of similar pole sheds and look at the connections between the poles and the roof. i think connections are the most critical part of the structure.

 

[Dune]

If there is lots of dead locust, cut that up and fill your shed with it. Build the shed from live locust. 6" diameter is fine for posts, beams may need to be larger to span 16'. Easier to put posts in the middle and cut the span to 8'.

Cental Ohio is pretty much snow belt area, right? Make your roof pitch steep, use 2x6 mimum and with sheet metal roof you will be good.

 

[lukem]

I saw some old locust posts when I was Turkey hunting over the weekend. The fence wire had long rusted away but the posts were still solid as a rock. I'm 100% sure they were black locust.

The posts will probably outlast the rest of your shed.

 

[oldspark]

You will want the posts cured I believed as they might rot if put into the ground green.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I think it would be better to purchase some pressure treated 4 x 6 posts. We did not put a cement donut in but instead used the 4 x 6 and a bag of cement redi mix. Some just pour the cement in the hole and set the post. I think it is better to mix water with the cement, dump it in the hold and then put the post in. If you do it this way, you'll still have the locust to burn and the treated posts will last and last and last.

 

[Thistle]

I saw some old locust posts when I was Turkey hunting over the weekend. The fence wire had long rusted away but the posts were still solid as a rock. I'm 100% sure they were black locust.

The posts will probably outlast the rest of your shed.

Could be hedge too,especially if they werent exactly straight.Some my granddad set back in the 30's on their farm in NW Missouri are still standing.Miles of them still doing their job in that area.

 

[lukem]

If it was hedge, they would have needed to haul them in. No hedge for miles in this area. The way the branches came off the trunk was what pointed to bl...that and the fact you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a bl tree.

I would put the bl in as-is...green or dead. Farmers around here say they should be cut before march if making posts or they will rot quicker, but I don't know if that holds any truth. We build a shed for my buddy with green bl posts about 10 years ago...and they are still solid as can be.

 

[Dune]

Locust posts installed properly will easily last 60 years or more.

 

[Wood Duck]

Rather than a precast concrete donut in the bottom, I'd just mix some redi mix and pour it in six inches deep. The next day set your posts on that. the advantage of poured in place concrete is that it can rest on undisturbed soil which is less likely to settle, whereas the donut will require some soil to be added back in the bottom of the hole to make it sit level, and that soil you add back could settle.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Thanks for the help fellas, and sorry I have not been checking in every day... busy spring here and still working on trying to get the garden planted in the little bits of time I have here and there between thunderstorms.

I dont know if I would really call this area part of the 'snow belt', yeah we get snow here yeah they put down a ton of salt, but the snow doesnt compare to where I grew up in upstate NY. Here 3-4" is usually the worse storm of the year. But I'll look into the cost difference going with 2x6 if its small then its good insurance.

Yeah, if I go with a dimension of 8x16 (which is just tentative) I would probably go with 6 poles.

The farm I hunt has locust posts that he put in himself in the 60's, most are still solid but some have rotted, but these ones were pretty small. I'll be using much larger. I'm not sure how effective or what kind of self applied preservatives are out there. I put on some kind of copper colored stuff from lowes/hd on a tree stand a few years back, its not holding up too well.

I dont know much about construction, I just suggested the cement donut and backfill with gravel because thats how our pole barn was built - well not sure about the backfill it might have been mostly dirt but due to having gravel there already when digging the holes, it just got mixed in. I could probably just as easily pour some cement in the base of the hole.

Some other questions I had, and it seems I have already got answers going both ways, is whether to use dried or green poles. In log form, its not going to dry much anyway right? There is a chance I might not get it built until next year with everything thats going on, should I still cut the logs and let them attempt to dry? There are plenty of standing dead or green to choose from. Most seem fairly straight too, I dont think I should have too much problems there getting the right size & straight. And the tentative design is all open on the sides.

 

[Dune]

Timber frames have traditionaly been done with green lumber (even for homes) but it is not the only way. If cutting ahead of time, strip the bark and sticker the logs, as flat and level as possible.
Pouring concrete in the bottom of the hole is a good idea.
Mixing back fill with cement is not, this will cause moisture to be contained around the posts and promote decay. Backfilling with gravel is far superior.
The only truly effective rot preventative is creosote, likely not available any more. Even charring has been proven not effective, though it was the primary method for millenia.
The most important step in any post style contsruction is to erect the posts as absolutely plumb as possible.

 

[smokinj]

Being in central Ohio you should be able to dig your post hole around the 36 inch mark and once you hit 4 inchs of clay throw your pole in and back file with the dirt. It will not move or sink ever!

 

[Wood Duck]

Being in central Ohio you should be able to dig your post hole around the 36 inch mark and once you hit 4 inchs of clay throw your pole in and back file with the dirt. It will not move or sink ever!

Yeah, I have a lot of posts set in nothing but dirt and they are fine unless there is a force on them (such as a clothes line pulling one way). In a shed there shouldn't be any pull so I agree with Jay - keep it rustic.

 

[Marsh Rat]

Never pour cement around wodden poles, treated or not. Holds moisture and will rot the pole 2x as fast. I have old rock maple poles out back holding a fence up that are 10 years old and still look new. All my roofs are held up with tele poles so I know those will never rot in my life. Working on a rustic tractor shed out back built outta black spurce for the rafters. Cut them this winter out in the swamp and pulled them out with the snowmobile. 6" at base to 4" at top 16' long and straight as an arrow. I am leaving them in the round to give it that classic look. I have the tele poles set just have to get the time to start framing it up.

 

[aussiedog3]

Can I chime in here?

I don't want to hijack this thread but I'm thinking of doing the same thing,
building a rustic woodshed in the same manner.

Problem is all I have is pine to use for the structure.

Do I dare use pine?

Take off the bark?

Use it green?

Tar the exposed ends?

How long could I expect it to last?

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[Marsh Rat]

Don't use pine for the posts, no matter what you do it won't last very long. I can get 3 years out of a pine post before it rots away and thats in sand country. Find some nice hardwood or go pick up some treated 6x6's The rest of the shed will last a lifetime built out of pine once the roof is on it. Treated wood is junk in my mind, never stays straight and doesn't last that much longer. I just put some good oil stain on all exposed lumber and call it good.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Just a thought, but if your really trying to pinch some pennies could pine be used if it was strapped onto concrete piers or similar instead of being sunk into the ground? The concrete would cost some but still probably cheaper than PT 6x6's.

 

[smokinj]

Just a thought, but if your really trying to pinch some pennies could pine be used if it was strapped onto concrete piers or similar instead of being sunk into the ground? The concrete would cost some but still probably cheaper than PT 6x6's.

Pine is use in all kinds of stuff even beam barns. If its in the gound just coat it with some oil base.
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?fbid=10150250367848764&set=a.10150250367668764.370510.154875693763&type=1&theater;

 

[salecker]

Hi
You could contact your local power company and see if they have any damaged poles they want to get rid of,They will be treated in some form.
Last time i picked up a trailer load from the local guy,he was happy to help me load them.
They are slated to be poles for a wood shed or storage shed of some sort.
Mabey railroad ties for in the ground and attach to them?
Thomas

 

[DiscoInferno]

I’ve seen metal strapping used to connect the posts and beams, is this something I can pic up at lowes or the local hardware store?

I used Simpson Strong Tie strapping to help secure the beams on the posts, 16 gauge (CS16-R). I ordered 25' coils online (~$25 each), but a hardware store might have it. I also used a galvanized 10" or 12" spike down through the beams into each post, got those at home depot. I used lag screws to attach the rafters to the beams and to attach the cross-bracing to the posts.

 

[Dune]

Can I chime in here?

I don't want to hijack this thread but I'm thinking of doing the same thing,
building a rustic woodshed in the same manner.

Problem is all I have is pine to use for the structure.

Do I dare use pine?

Take off the bark?

Use it green?

Tar the exposed ends?

How long could I expect it to last?

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.

Depend what type of pine it is. Long leaf pine is pretty rot resistant. Eastern or white pine it not.