Caddy in the basement and smoke issues

[Lawnman323]

Just purchased a Caddy and had a HVAC installer put it in. He's gone now, and the joints of the exhaust are still smoking (2 45's), how long before cresote builds up and seals them?

If I open the door, I get smoke in my face. I have an outside door open, crack the door 1" like they say, and I still get smoke rolling out of the unit. Any insights?

Also, I threw in 4 splits of wood and the fire kicks up. My "damper" is open and with every big flame inside that I can see, there is a puff of smoke that comes out the "damper" in the front of the unit. Why is this? After reading the Greenwood post I'm wondering if I am overloading it. Any help would be appreciated.

I only have (2) 45 deg bends and one 2' piece of single wall inside, then it's up 26 feet outside with double wall attached to the house. I have not built a chase around the pipe yet, just fired the unit up today.

Any help would be appreciated.

Scott

 

[ikessky]

What is your fire starting procedure? Are you using dry wood? When I first started out this year, I made the mistake of adding too much wood too fast and not letting a good bed of coals get established before I filled it up and dampered it down. I also burned way too cool. Now, after I changed my ways, I can typically open the door on my add on furnace and get very little smoke out of it.

 

[Lawnman323]

What is your fire starting procedure? Are you using dry wood? When I first started out this year, I made the mistake of adding too much wood too fast and not letting a good bed of coals get established before I filled it up and dampered it down. I also burned way too cool. Now, after I changed my ways, I can typically open the door on my add on furnace and get very little smoke out of it.

Yes, my wood is dry - I have been keeping a bed of coals, I stir these up a bit, and put a few sticks in, leaving room for air to get between them. Even when there is a fire going or good coals, I open the door an inch, but smoke still spills out in the room.

The caddy is not like the Claytons and does not have a true damper in it. I cannot open a damper to clear the smoke in the chamber. My damper just regulates how much air can get into the chamber for combustion.

Any other help or advice would be appreciated. I may install this unit outside if I cannot figure this out, the wife is getting impatient.

 

[Lawnman323]

I also don't have a barometric damper installed yet, could this be some of my problem?

 

[laynes69]

I don't think the baro has anything to do with it. Those furnaces have quite a journey before the flue. I would think that they would be more draft sensitive. A baro would spoil some draft if there is an overdraft, possibly making the smoke issue worse. The only thing I could recommend is to crack the loading door open for 10 or so seconds before opening the loading door on the unit. That sucks to have a nice, new furnace like that and have those issues already.

 

[Lawnman323]

I think I'm going to build a lean-to outside against the house, insulate it, and run my hot air and cold air returns into the house. It's a little more screwing around, but in the long term I think I will be happier. The big thing is that if I leave for say 12 hours or so, and the fire goes out, I have to re-start it with a cold chimney, then the smoke really rolls out of it. This would be a long-term problem. If it's outside, that smoke is not an issue, and I can learn the funace without a house full of smoke. And it will burn less wood than a typical wood furnace.

I just keep telling myself that I made the right decision with the Caddy. I almost bought a Fire Chief, totally different system, much more simple, but would burn more wood. I doubt I'd have this issue with a Chief, maybe I'm wrong.

Keep the comments coming, they are very helpful.

 

[TCNC]

I've been burning in my new US Stove furnace for a little over a week now. It took me the better part of a week to be able to start a fire and maintain it without a ton of smoke coming out at times. The weather and winds also play a part in it too because they affect the chimney draft. When the firebox is smokey and I need to open the door to add wood or poke it, I crack the door for a second a few times before I open it all the way. Give it a little time as you get to learn the "personality" of your furnace. Also, remember some of the smoke you're getting is from the burn off of the oils and stuff off the furnace and stove pipe and that will go away after a few good fires. I may get a puff or two of smoke starting my furnace from cold now as opposed to a basement filled with smoke the first few times I started it up.

 

[mike1234]

I have been burning this fall and winter, and I continually learn something new about my stove, how to burn it, how to open the damper, how much wood to feed it... I am getting better at it all the time. This to say, I think you'll figure it out over time, and then will have little smoke, but I understand that smoke in the house makes it much harder to wait.
I don't have any 45's, it just goes straight up, but if mine were leaking, I'd think I had a problem with install (I am new at this, so might be wrong).

 

[ikessky]

Backpuffing could mean a couple things. It could be insufficient draft. Do you have trouble starting a fire from scratch?

It could also be an issue of insuffiecient make-up air if you house is well insulated and sealed. Do you have a window in your wood/furnace room that you could open for a minute or two before loading the stove?

I would try a few different things before moving the furnace into a lean-to.

 

[Lawnman323]

Backpuffing could mean a couple things. It could be insufficient draft. Do you have trouble starting a fire from scratch?

It could also be an issue of insuffiecient make-up air if you house is well insulated and sealed. Do you have a window in your wood/furnace room that you could open for a minute or two before loading the stove?

I would try a few different things before moving the furnace into a lean-to.

I can get a fire started, it just rolls smoke out of the front of the unit (the Caddy damper) until the flue heats up enough to draft.

To the make-up air comment - I had a window cracked a few inches, hoping to provide enough. When I started from scratch, I opened the door outside, not going to get much better than that! I do have spray-foam insualtion though (walkout basement) so it is pretty tight. That's another issue I have. I spray foam the basement to seal it up, then I am supposed to leave a window open or install a 4" dia. pipe outside to allow air in? I know that is what a wood appliance needs, but it's just frustrating.

Having said all that, we took it out today and put the LP furnace back in. I understand that it may take me a week to learn this furnace, but I'll be living alone in a week. It will be nice to have it outside in a self-contained room with my wood (probably 10x15' under my deck), I can split inside the lean-to, and it will serve as a garden shed because we can't have out-buildings in our association.

Anyone with Caddy-specific experience, please chime in. These are totally different beasts from the US Stoves, Claytons, or Fire Chiefs. With those units, you control air in and exhaust out. This makes it easy to monkey with. With the Caddy you can only control air in. Period. It's frustrating because you're working with one hand behind your back.

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it more than you know.

Scott

 

[CaddyUser]

Hi Scott,

I installed a Caddy too, and have been running it almost non-stop for the past month. Sounds like you are having a number of problems, to say the least.

With regards to your question about the barometric damper, as was mentioned earlier, it would not appear that is the problem at all. A barometric damper adds air to the chimney to reduce draft in the situation, most commonly, of higher winds that increase the system draft. It would have been a good idea to have had the system's draft chacked with a manometer to verify the amount of draft, or lack thereof. I still have to check mine, but it's more of a thing to ensure as high of performance from the system as possible.

Although thehre are certainly many exterior chimnet installations, IMHO, I'm not a big fan of them due to thewide variation in flue temperatures. Couple that with the Caddy's ability to extract a substantial amount of heat from the flue gasses, it adds up to a chimney that may not be up to decent temperatues unless you are pushing it to its thermal limits.

The only item that you did not mention is the diameter of the chimney, and the height of the cap above the roofline. This can also affect your draft. I have a 7" insulated stainless unit, that runs about 19', but it's an internal chimney; unlike yours. I also have an Add-on Caddy, so I needed to go to 7" as per the manufacturer.

For certain, the amount of smoke spillage is above normal. I do get some spillage when I open the door. I have learned though, not to be to quick in opening it. In some cases, I will leave the door cracked for about 30 seconds before opening it fully. The other thing is you might be opening the door too soon into the burn cycle. I tend to leave mine until the initial burn is almost complete before I add any more wood.

Admittedly, I'm still learning about the finer points of the Caddy; it's definitely has a personality of its own, and needs to be configured well, especially the draft supply.

 

[Lawnman323]

Hi Scott,

I installed a Caddy too, and have been running it almost non-stop for the past month. Sounds like you are having a number of problems, to say the least.

With regards to your question about the barometric damper, as was mentioned earlier, it would not appear that is the problem at all. A barometric damper adds air to the chimney to reduce draft in the situation, most commonly, of higher winds that increase the system draft. It would have been a good idea to have had the system's draft chacked with a manometer to verify the amount of draft, or lack thereof. I still have to check mine, but it's more of a thing to ensure as high of performance from the system as possible.

Although thehre are certainly many exterior chimnet installations, IMHO, I'm not a big fan of them due to thewide variation in flue temperatures. Couple that with the Caddy's ability to extract a substantial amount of heat from the flue gasses, it adds up to a chimney that may not be up to decent temperatues unless you are pushing it to its thermal limits.

The only item that you did not mention is the diameter of the chimney, and the height of the cap above the roofline. This can also affect your draft. I have a 7" insulated stainless unit, that runs about 19', but it's an internal chimney; unlike yours. I also have an Add-on Caddy, so I needed to go to 7" as per the manufacturer.

For certain, the amount of smoke spillage is above normal. I do get some spillage when I open the door. I have learned though, not to be to quick in opening it. In some cases, I will leave the door cracked for about 30 seconds before opening it fully. The other thing is you might be opening the door too soon into the burn cycle. I tend to leave mine until the initial burn is almost complete before I add any more wood.

Admittedly, I'm still learning about the finer points of the Caddy; it's definitely has a personality of its own, and needs to be configured well, especially the draft supply.

My chimney is 6", and is probably 5-7' above the roofline. The dealer thought this would be sufficient and we are 10' from anything combustible at the top. How long of a burn are you getting, how many splits of wood are you adding at a time? What's the square footage of your home and what temperature is the Caddy keeping it at?

The sad thing about the situation is that the only way to install this was to have the chimney between two outside windows, and that location put the pipe in the back of the LP furnace. So we actually cut that furnace out and installed the Caddy. Therefore I had no heat unless the Caddy worked. Needless to say, I had major smoke issues and my house dropped to 60 degrees and was falling. I had to make a tough choice and eat all the labor of moving the LP furnace. Of course we had to cut my AC lines as well. Gravy. Chalk it up to experience, but that is one expensive lesson. I did a tremendous amount of research talking to dealers and on this site, and still found myself in this situation. This type of thing rarely happens to me.

You've made a good point about a internal chimney. When I build my out building I will insulate and leave it open up the chase to allow radiant heat from the Caddy to help my draft.

Again, I appreciate all the help, keep the comments coming so when I do finally install it again I can captialize on my investment.

Thank you,

Scott

 

[CaddyUser]

Hi Scott,

Sounds like the chimney height is OK to me. Our home is about 1600 sq ft, built in the 60's and we're planning on replacing the windows next summer, as they are the original ones when the house was built. Suffice it to say, it certainly not a well sealed house by today's standards.

As for temps, last night was -20C, with a wind chill of -27C, and we were able to keep it at a nice 21C inside. We're burning white (paper) birch and maple that is not perfectly seasoned, as I had to 'bite-the-bullet', and buy wood this season. It's not green, but it wasn't under cover until I got it home. Again, not perfect operation parameters, but we are quite happy with the purchase. I added five splits (6in or so) at 12PM last night, and my wife reloaded this morning at 8:30AM. She said they was about 2in of coals left, and only took two pieces of kindling (actually pieces of the crate that the Caddy came with) to get things going. The temp at that point was about 18C inside, and rougly -16C outside.

I was thinking about your situation, and really think that there should be a draft test done when you reinstall it in order to verify your chimney draft. Your HVAC guy should be able to do it; if they don't, I'd be suspect of them.

The only thing different from your install is that I opted for double-wall stove pipe. I wanted the extra safety, and thought that it might also help with the stack temps and draft. When my inspector looked it over, he was more than impressed with my installation.

I'll be looking forward to inspecting the pipes and chimney soon, as I'm really interested to know how the creosote accumulation is. I'll let everyone know my results.

Keep in touch when you reinstall. I'll provide as much insight as I can.

Stephen.

 

[CaddyUser]

Just had a thought Scott; did you or the installer take the tools out of the exchanger when it was installed?

 

[Lawnman323]

Just had a thought Scott; did you or the installer take the tools out of the exchanger when it was installed?

Yes, we did.

I only had about 3' total of black pipe inside, then double wall outside, the 6" Simpson Dura-Pro I believe it was. (10" overall diameteter). I'll have a draft test done.

Not sure when the re-install will be, probably in the spring. This room keeps getting bigger and I may be pouring concrete, etc. Keep me posted on your progress if you would.

Thank you again.

Scott

 

[henfruit]

why not try a draft inducer?

 

[Lawnman323]

To the best of my knowledge there is not one availible for this unit, maybe I am wrong. Somebody with definate knowledge can chime in.

It draws air from two small square openings below the door and a horizontal bar 2" by 14" or so above the door when it calls for heat. Not sure how an inducer would work.

 

[SUPPLYGUY]

What about outside air? A friend of mine had some of the same problems as you and he had to bring more outside air into the basement. The new houses are very tight.

 

[shawn84]

I recently installed the Phoenix..after burning for 3 months decided to clean the pipes..and did as per the installers recomendation and lowered the bricks and pipes down to clean it through the stove. Since then this thing puffs everyitime you crack the door... (very trying). Does anyone have tech drawings or specs on exactly how the bricks and pipes and braces go back in? I think I have it back like it was, but still am having no luck.
Thoughts..??