Calif. phasing out small gas engines

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EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
3,039
SE North Carolina
Nothing like kicking one of the more less polluting countries in the knees versus say one like China or something. Right?
I have no kids to worry about but for those of you who do......
China made the decision to do without electricity when they cut coal production to reduce emissions That a pretty bold and not very well thought out choice, but one that shows their commitment. It’s a global issue. We NEED China to keep our country running. If a country willing chooses rolling blackouts to reduce emissions think about what they would endure exact revenge on us.
 
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rwh63

Feeling the Heat
Nov 12, 2019
379
MA
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When the snow plow leaves a 3 — 4 berm of of Sierra cement snow in front of your driveway. I don’t see a battery powered snow blower doing the job. Honda. One pull one start

Generator for if and when power goes out. Food can go in cooler outside in the winter.

Power companies are doing power shut offs in high wind events to prevent fires. Nevada Energy where Truckee gets its power from also started doing this. It hasn’t happened yet.

No power? How are are charging your electric car to go anywhere?

I rotate my 5, 5 gallon gas cans through my 67 Mercury Cougar to keep gas fresh!
End of driveway: Honda, no! Snowbird, yes!!
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
7,046
Downeast Maine
China made the decision to do without electricity when they cut coal production to reduce emissions That a pretty bold and not very well thought out choice, but one that shows their commitment. It’s a global issue. We NEED China to keep our country running. If a country willing chooses rolling blackouts to reduce emissions think about what they would endure exact revenge on us.
The Chinese Communist party is very dedicated to reducing emissions. China, and some southeast Asian countries, are in a position to suffer immensely from rising sea levels. I think many Americans scoff at climate change and reducing emissions because they live somewhere that rising sea level doesn't matter. Hard to be motivated or care about something if you don't have any connection to it.
 
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ColdNorCal

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2018
331
Newcastle, Ca.
Its interesting, even ironic, to read some of the views about climate change, decreasing emissions, rising oceans... on a wood stove forum. And in the Gear Forum that includes discussions about high emission tools like tractors, log splitters, chainsaws....
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
7,046
Downeast Maine
Its interesting, even ironic, to read some of the views about climate change, decreasing emissions, rising oceans... on a wood stove forum. And in the Gear Forum that includes discussions about high emission tools like tractors, log splitters, chainsaws....
Do you burn a smoke dragon? I guess we can't want a better planet and also use tools. It's kind of like when folks say "you don't like capitalism, but you buy bread!" It must be nice believing that having a better planet is stupid.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
2,001
Northern Maine
How is this kicking anyone in the knees? And the argument that we might as well do nothing because others are worse than us is just absurd I am sorry.
How on Earth do you figure we've done nothing? Bio Fuel, Ethanol in our fuel that makes a mess, DEF and ultra low diesel, smog controls, wood stove certifications, and the list goes on forever.
Last I knew China was doing nothing like that.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
How on Earth do you figure we've done nothing? Bio Fuel, Ethanol in our fuel that makes a mess, DEF and ultra low diesel, smog controls, wood stove certifications, and the list goes on forever.
Last I knew China was doing nothing like that.
I never said we have done nothing. I said the idea that we shouldn't bother because others aren't is wrong.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
2,001
Northern Maine
I never said we have done nothing. I said the idea that we shouldn't bother because others aren't is wrong.
And my point is how much more control do you want to impose (and at what costs) to the American consumer? We've placed more pollution controls on our gas and diesel engines than anyone else yet they want more from the manufacturers and the consumers. When is enough enough?
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
5,352
Long Island NY
And my point is how much more control do you want to impose (and at what costs) to the American consumer? We've placed more pollution controls on our gas and diesel engines than anyone else yet they want more from the manufacturers and the consumers. When is enough enough?
I don't think the controls are more than those in Europe ("no diesel trucks in down-town permitted"-Europe!)
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
7,046
Downeast Maine
The US is hardly draconian on emissions laws.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
Its interesting, even ironic, to read some of the views about climate change, decreasing emissions, rising oceans... on a wood stove forum. And in the Gear Forum that includes discussions about high emission tools like tractors, log splitters, chainsaws....
And how do you propose I heat my house with less environmental impact?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
And my point is how much more control do you want to impose (and at what costs) to the American consumer? We've placed more pollution controls on our gas and diesel engines than anyone else yet they want more from the manufacturers and the consumers. When is enough enough?
Yes there are costs there are also benifits. Look at the power we are now getting from cars with low emissions and high fuel economy. Is that a bad thing???
 

ColdNorCal

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2018
331
Newcastle, Ca.
Do you burn a smoke dragon? I guess we can't want a better planet and also use tools. It's kind of like when folks say "you don't like capitalism, but you buy bread!" It must be nice believing that having a better planet is stupid.

Yes, you too see the irony. But, why make assumptions and say "stupid". Does it make you feel better and superior in some moral way.

Wanting something and doing something are different. If you truly want something, do something. You can do something to make a "better planet" such as stop burning wood. Think of all the fossil fuels used and the emissions and pollutants generated from just harvesting the wood. Gathering, cutting, splitting... Then theirs burning the wood. Ah, but that would require a change in lifestyle. A sacrifice. An increase in heating costs. So until that happens, please save your double speak and faux moral superiority for others.
 

ColdNorCal

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2018
331
Newcastle, Ca.
And how do you propose I heat my house with less environmental impact?

Dont care how you heat your house. Its your house.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
Yes, you too see the irony. But, why make assumptions and say "stupid". Does it make you feel better and superior in some moral way.

Wanting something and doing something are different. If you truly want something, do something. You can do something to make a "better planet" such as stop burning wood. Think of all the fossil fuels used and the emissions and pollutants generated from just harvesting the wood. Gathering, cutting, splitting... Then theirs burning the wood. Ah, but that would require a change in lifestyle. A sacrifice. An increase in heating costs. So until that happens, please save your double speak and faux moral superiority for others.
Again what would you suggest as a heating method that has less environmental impact?
 

ColdNorCal

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2018
331
Newcastle, Ca.

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
Dont care how you heat your house. Its your house.
But you are implying we are hypocrites because we both heat with wood and care about protecting our environment. And btw I use roughly 15 to 20 gals of gas a year processing my wood which does 90% of my heating. I'd say that's pretty good
 
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ColdNorCal

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2018
331
Newcastle, Ca.
But you are implying we are hypocrites because we both heat with wood and care about protecting our environment. And btw I use roughly 15 to 20 gals of gas a year processing my wood which does 90% of my heating. I'd say that's pretty good

The irony exists. Thats all I said. If some feel challenged or defensive, that is up to them. I care about the environment also. And also realize and accept the irony.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
The irony exists. Thats all I said. If some feel challenged or defensive, that is up to them. I care about the environment also. And also realize and accept the irony.
I just don't see the irony. Which is why I have repeatedly asked what you thought a more environmentally friendly option would be. Yes of course there are some emissions released as a result of wood heating. But they are typically far less than most other options.
 

ColdNorCal

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2018
331
Newcastle, Ca.
I just don't see the irony. Which is why I have repeatedly asked what you thought a more environmentally friendly option would be. Yes of course there are some emissions released as a result of wood heating. But they are typically far less than most other options.

Its a matter of how much some one really cares and what they are willing to do. So you tell me, are their better, more environmentally friendlier, options? Keep in mind, their is a lot of resources used in just the gathering and harvesting of wood.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
5,352
Long Island NY
It's hard to compare 20 gallons of 50:1 gasoline (though most splitters run on a 4-cycle) w/ e.g. heating oil in terms of pollution.

In terms of CO2 there is a clear benefit for wood heating + 20 gallons of chainsaw fuel. Regarding other pollution, it depends on what the oil furnace pumps out. That was not in that article mentioned all the way at the beginning of this thread.

I do suspect, given the dirty small ICE engines, that if you compare 20 gallons of that versus heating with natural gas, the case (only regarding non-CO2 pollution!) is not so clear.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
94,667
South Puget Sound, WA
Its a matter of how much some one really cares and what they are willing to do. So you tell me, are their better, more environmentally friendlier, options? Keep in mind, their is a lot of resources used in just the gathering and harvesting of wood.
The question has been asked of you and still remains unanswered.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
29,236
central pa
Its a matter of how much some one really cares and what they are willing to do. So you tell me, are their better, more environmentally friendlier, options? Keep in mind, their is a lot of resources used in just the gathering and harvesting of wood.
That honestly depends how electricity is produced in your area the availability of other fuels etc.

You are the one pointing out what you see as irony. I am just asking you to clarify a bit on that. As I said I heat my house with wood that takes about 15 to 20 gals of fuel to process
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
94,667
South Puget Sound, WA
I do suspect, given the dirty small ICE engines, that if you compare 20 gallons of that versus heating with natural gas, the case (only regarding non-CO2 pollution!) is not so clear.
If accounting for the chainsaw and truck then the impact of everything involved with natural gas production needs to also be accounted for. This includes the impacts of fracking, pipelines, flaring off gas, trenching, stack emissions, etc.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
2,001
Northern Maine
I don't think the controls are more than those in Europe ("no diesel trucks in down-town permitted"-Europe!)
Well except that many other parts of the world run more on diesel fuel than gasoline.