Carbon monoxide in the old days ?

[Robbie]

I've been wondering, in the old days, all stoves leaked and all pipes leaked, where was carbon monoxide then ?

Why did it not seem to bother anyone.........or did it ?

I've heard it was because of the cracks in the walls let enough air in.

I know this can't be true because my relatives in Kentucky kept their houses at 100 degrees in the winter from coal, and had tons of old newspapers on the walls, along with card board. This was on top of old flooring on the walls or anything else they could nail or tack up.

No insulation I'm sure, but no way any fresh air could get in.

What is the difference ?




Robbie

 

[elkimmeg]

all the old times that could respond died due to exphixiation

 

[kevinmoelk]

I know this can't be true because my relatives in Kentucky kept their houses at 100 degrees in the winter from coal, and had tons of old newspapers on the walls, along with card board. This was on top of old flooring on the walls or anything else they could nail or tack up.

???? That's a strange picture in my head.

-Kevin

 

[Robbie]

Wrenchmonster, strange but true, my relatives homes were almost exactly like what you saw in the movie "Coal miners daughter". The smell of coal burning in the winter was a very common thing.


The houses were all very dark inside with maybe one light bulb hanging down from the ceiling in each room on an old wire and a pull chain.

How could you do proper maintence or stove/pipe cleaning and inspection ?

The walls were a mixture of magazines and news papers tacked up with scattered card board. Most times there were many layers of assorted things like linoleum flooring or "brick style" wall linoleum.

I've often wondered about this. I know the old stoves they used must have leaked smoke etc., wonder why we never got sick or anything ?

Is this the reason I am losing my hair ?........... %-P




Robbie

 

[smirnov3]

People DID die of CO poisoning. Or, in many cases, they got exposed to sub-lethat doses.

That's why in victorean times, people had mysterous illnesses that cleared up when they went outside more.

Also, I have heard that low level CO exposure can lead to tactile hallucinations (ie you imagine that something is touching you, or brushing against you) which helps explain the belief in haunted houses.

 

[berlin]

it is very likely not much if any CO leaked into homes. if the chimney drafts properly there will be no exit of exhaust gasses into the home regardless of the tightness of pipe and stove joints. people could smell when something wasn't right, especially when burning soft coal which most of the world did. most CO poisonings are due to malfunctioning nat. gas appliances which produce little to no odor.

the human body can, to some extent become accustomed to CO; when it does, an occasional large dose does not have the severe and deadly effect that it would on someone with little to no exposure. heavy smokers, for example, are less likely to die from a leaky appliance than a non-smoker with little to no CO exposure.

 

[latichever]

There was a study a few years ago by, I think, the CDC showing that children raised in houses with gas cook stoves had a higher rate of respiratory symptoms than children in electric homes.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Sounds like some tough living Robbie. I'll have to review the movie to see what you are talking about to get a better image in my head. Sissy Spacek and Tommy Lee Jones if my memory serves me correctly. Tommy had a nice little Jeep in that movie.

On the CO subject, I'm not sure any acurate conclusions could be derived. One of the biggest issues I believe would be "easy" detection. Without the available CO detectors we have today, how would you know if it were making you sick? Perhaps as berlin suggested, you would grow accustomed to the particular level in your home, unless it got so bad to where your body could not process it.

There have been links to asthma and reduced lung development in children concerning CO as well. They have also recently found these same children, upon becoming adults suffer from male pattern baldness.

-Kevin

 

[Martin Strand III]

Carbon monoxide (CO) was a killer in the old days and it still is now. Being odorless and heavier than air, called the "silent killer", it is a by product of combustion (in stoves and engines). It actually forms more in those smoldering fires so here's another reason to burn "hot".

It has an affinity for the hemoglobin in your red blood cells some 200+ times more than does oxygen so it doesn't take a whole lot of it to bind up the oxygen sites on your hemoglobin and do you dirty as a proper throtteling with fingers around your neck or a plastic bag cinched over your head; i.e., asphyxiation, as Elk mentioned.

Be careful out there. Burn smart. Get a CO detector. Keep the batteries fresh in the burning season (coming soon to much of the country, they say...).

Aye,
Marty

 

[Martin Strand III]

Oh, don't believe just this 'ole duffer.

Check it out here

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16420108/

and here

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16475825/

Aye,
Marty

 

[Andre B.]

Yes people died from CO but to put it into perspective the flu or a simple infected cut presented more danger. In other words CO was a good ways down in priority on the threat list.

 

[BrotherBart]

I've been wondering, in the old days, all stoves leaked and all pipes leaked, where was carbon monoxide then ?

Why did it not seem to bother anyone.........or did it ?

I've heard it was because of the cracks in the walls let enough air in.

I know this can't be true because my relatives in Kentucky kept their houses at 100 degrees in the winter from coal, and had tons of old newspapers on the walls, along with card board. This was on top of old flooring on the walls or anything else they could nail or tack up.

No insulation I'm sure, but no way any fresh air could get in.

What is the difference ?




Robbie

Not much difference. CO from wood and coal stoves didn't kill many people then or now. The only reason this house has CO detectors on each floor now is because two years ago we had to use kerosene as backup heat for a month. Burned two wood stove in this house for 18 years without'em.

Except for a recent thread here about a CO problem with a fellow's Osburn install I have never heard of a wood or coal stove setting off a CO alarm or killing anybody. I am sure it has happened. I just haven't ever heard of it.

 

[smirnov3]

it is very likely not much if any CO leaked into homes. if the chimney drafts properly there will be no exit of exhaust gasses into the home regardless of the tightness of pipe and stove joints. people could smell when something wasn't right

IF the chimney drafted right. but a weather inversion or strong winds could push a fair bit of exhaust back into the house. Smoke was just a fact of life.

Given the smoke, and that everybody drank alcahol, even pregnant women & young children, and the poor nutrition, it's a wonder that people weren't all brain damaged.

 

[webbie]

Given the smoke, and that everybody drank alcahol, even pregnant women & young children, and the poor nutrition, it's a wonder that people weren't all brain damaged.

The fact is, between the lead and the air and all the other pollutants, they pretty much HAD to be both brain and bodily affected. But medical science was not good enough to know it!

The high cancer rates of the western world are almost surely tied directly to how we poison ourselves.

This is why "tree huggers" are not considered as ridiculous now. Science has confirmed many of the old theories and given the number of people on the planet it is a good thing that technology has come to the rescue. Another thread here deals with how amazingly clean modern car engines are compared to small engines (snowblowers, etc.) - like HUNDREDS of times cleaner when HP is figured in.

Can you imagine what the air would be like if cars were still like the 60's?

A tip of the hat to Honda and all the others going for the gold.

 

[DriftWood]

It has been known for decades that CO poisoning can produce lasting health harm, mainly through its destructive effects on the central nervous system. Some studies found that 25-40% of people died during acute exposure, while 15-40% of the survivors suffered immediate or delayed neuropsychological deficit.

Now, an emerging body of evidence suggests that longer exposures to lower levels of CO, ie. chronic CO poisoning, are capable of producing a myriad of debilitating residual effects that may continue for days, weeks, months and even years. Keep watching this site for new information on this topic.

Ever sucked in some really bad air with what you think had a bit to much CO in it, this study wants to know. They are studying long term effects of CO exposure CARBON MONOXIDE (CO) HEADQUARTERS .

http://www.coheadquarters.com/CO1.htm

 

[Martin Strand III]

it is very likely not much if any CO leaked into homes. if the chimney drafts properly there will be no exit of exhaust gasses into the home regardless of the tightness of pipe and stove joints. people could smell when something wasn't right

IF the chimney drafted right. but a weather inversion or strong winds could push a fair bit of exhaust back into the house. Smoke was just a fact of life.

Given the smoke, and that everybody drank alcahol, even pregnant women & young children, and the poor nutrition, it's a wonder that people weren't all brain damaged.

Anton:

We all know there's lots of bad stuff in smoke, including CO.

But it is interesting, in some cultures today in South America where open fires inside the living quarters, with no chimneys, are commonplace, the major medical issue is early blindness mostly for women who do the fire tending/cooking. The culprit is chronic contact with smoke. Strange, there is not a major problem with acute CO poisoning. And, since the life expectancy in these cultures is about 40 years, they don't live long enough to die of lung cancer or other related pathology.

Aye,
Marty

Grandma used to say, "Not always wise to 'put that in your pipe and smoke it' ."

 

[jjbaer]

[quote author="Marty S" date="1168044820

Anton:

We all know there's lots of bad stuff in smoke, including CO.

But it is interesting, in some cultures today in South America where open fires inside the living quarters, with no chimneys, are commonplace, the major medical issue is early blindness mostly for women who do the fire tending/cooking. The culprit is chronic contact with smoke. Strange, there is not a major problem with acute CO poisoning. And, since the life expectancy in these cultures is about 40 years, they don't live long enough to die of lung cancer or other related pathology.

Aye,
Marty

Grandma used to say, "Not always wise to 'put that in your pipe and smoke it' ."[/quote]



Marty,

I see you have no problem asking questions in a thread YOU opened but in the other thread you trolled in you refused to answer forum members who asked you what investment you had in stoves or masonry heaters. Even when you said it's best to talk about "savings" instead of "investment", you still refused to answer when asked about "savings". So....... there we have it......you have no problem extracting info out of others but refuse to provide any to forum members who ask you to do likewise......better remove that "learning" word from your profile because "learning" is a two-way communication process ............


Aye,

Castiron

 

[Martin Strand III]

Castron:

Please refer to your PM.

Sorry, it's not about CO.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Robbie]

Wrenchmonster, I'm sure it would seem tough to us now, but I don't think most back then realized there might be a safer way.

How could they know this stuff was in the air ?


I remember the strong odor of coal smoke, was this a sign of smoke leakage ?


To those who burn coal now, do you smell a strong coal smoke odor ? Or was this proof that the stoves and pipe were just not too tight back then.


Robbie

 

[jjbaer]

Castron:

Please refer to your PM.

Sorry, it's not about CO.

Aye,
Marty

Marty,

I stand corrected that you were not the author of the CO thread here..... but my statement still stands....we'd still like to hear about your system.

thanks

Jim

 

[Metal]

Inefficient burning = great draft. They usually had big flues and hot fires in their pre-EPA stoves which pulled in plenty of fresh air in from outside. The air might not have come in through the walls, but around the foundation, though the ceilings, single pain windows, around doors, it doesn't take much of a gap to let a lot of air in and if it comes in, some has to go out. This may not be the case for all the old houses, but it is for most. A house that takes 3 cords to heat for a winter now probably would have used 6-8 in the old days due to poor insulation and air leaks.

 

[Robbie]

Metal, I think you may be right. The fresh air flow probably did get in through the floors and windows or roof.

This is an interesting subjest to me, mostly because of the older stove burning ways involved.

There does not seem to be much written on CO problems back then.



Robbie

 

[PaulyV]

Welcome Mr martinez..are you stating that all your tropical wood is hard wood? or is it hard getting tropical wood around here? What type of burn times ya getting with it?

 

[BrotherBart]

Welcome Mr martinez..are you stating that all your tropical wood is hard wood? or is it hard getting tropical wood around here? What type of burn times ya getting with it?

Methinks tropical wood isn't found in Winchester, Virginia.

 

[Robbie]

Chirag martinez, yes, thank goodness.

I did a search on google earlier trying to find some history etc, on this subject but can't seem to hit the right key words.

I bet there are lots of stories but would be hard to find.


Robbie