Cheap stove or just LAZY

[Slogothor]

I cut 10 cords of wet pine/aspen each summer for my family as well as our in-laws. I go to great lengths to season my wood throughout the summer. With the 100+ temps and strong, very dry winds it only takes 6-8 weeks to season our wood. I protect it from the rain only. When winter comes it is stored in a shed. My father-in-law, on the other hand, leaves his share of the same wood in rounds, and exposed to all moisture throughout the summer, fall and winter months. Although we are in the high desert we still get a substantial amount of summer monsoons. By the time we begin our winter heating his wood is not nearly as dry as mine. We both have similar stoves, both older, rectangular, and large. I have never had a problem with efficiency. Dad has to have his at full speed all the time or it just won't burn, which creates way too much heat. I'll get to my point, he complains that the stove is just poorly designed. I disagree, I believe he is burning wet wood. He has this ridiculous theory that his wood freeze dries throughout the winter. I realize that scientifically speaking, this is possible under optimal conditions, but regardless of the below freezing temps we get, there is also a lot of rain and consistently warm (40+), humid winter weather. There is also the constant melting snow on cold, but sunny winter days, causing the wood to melt snow from underneath. I do not believe that pine can dry through the process of sublimation when it is consistently exposed to rain and melting snow. He is ready to spend a lot of money replacing the stove which I believe is totally unnecessary. I believe his stove issues are due 100% to laziness. He only leaves the wood out because he is too lazy too use tarps or any other sort of protection. I would love to hear what any experts might have to say about this situation. In regards to any chimney factors, his 6" pipe goes straight up 10-12 feet. Regardless of how the vents are adjusted, his stove will only work well with maximum ventilation (door open). "The Earth Stove" is the only identification I could find on it. The interior dimensions are 18"wide, 18" deep, 12" tall. I have even burned some of my seasoned wood in his stove to show him the stove works well but he adamantly believes that his stove sucks and his wood is seasoned. My goal here is to convince him that 14" rounds will not season in less than 3 months while exposed to rain and/or snow at least once a week. I also won't mention the constant watering his wood gets from our high output irrigation sprinklers running EVERY day. He seems to think THAT moisture is evaporated before the sun goes down each day. Aside from your expert opinions, I would love to know of a site where I can show him solid information regarding this situation. Thank You

 

[Remmy122]

I would think his problems would be compounded with a new stove.

Im no expert, but arent the EPA stoves less forgiving with unseasoned wood than the older stoves?

 

[Slogothor]

That's a great point. It's difficult to find older stoves in good condition with the huge increase in wood burning these days.

 

[Bspring]

Often there is a cost involved for education.

 

[Slogothor]

Unfortunately the cost is my family having to breath the black, heavy, unburned fumes which barely roll out of his chimney and settle all around the houses. He seems to think this is a good sign of an efficient fire.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

James, your situation is quite common all around the country. That is sad but is true and too many old farts just have closed minds and therefore are not teachable. Even if they are shown the right way, sometimes their ego gets in their way. The result is that they become more stubborn the more they are shown!

The Earth Stove was a good stove in its time but the new stoves are so much improved that is makes the Earth stove look bad. Would he benefit from a new stove? Maybe so, maybe not. If he could be convinced to split that wood then he would definitely benefit. How much? Well, when I bought a new stove my fuel needs became cut in half! He may or may not see that good but definitely would see a big benefit. This may or may not help. If you cut the same amount of wood so that you get a couple years ahead with the wood supply then perhaps all will be well.

It is well known that wood kept in rounds simply takes longer to dry than wood that is split. Even in your dry climate with your high winds, that wood would definitely dry faster if it were split. As for rainwater, we rarely become concerned about it but we do cover our stacks before the snow flies but cover only the top of the stack. Once wood is dry, it is not a sponge. Rainwater mostly runs right off with no harm done. If it rains one day, the next day it will be dry. The exception for sure is if the wood is punk. Punky wood will soak up lots of moisture.

All in all, I'd still say he has the bigger problem with his wood by not splitting it rather than the rain doing the bad thing to his wood. If he would split the wood and stack it so it is off the ground and in the wind, he should be fine. However, even in your area I would still question that the wood will be dry in 6-8 weeks. I'd say 6 months would be the absolute minimum.

Then there is that little thing about the chimney. 10-12 feet even straight up is too short most of the time. 13' is commonly recommended for minimum height. If you are higher elevation then I'd think you might need the chimney taller.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Unfortunately the cost is my family having to breath the black, heavy, unburned fumes which barely roll out of his chimney and settle all around the houses. He seems to think this is a good sign of an efficient fire.

I wonder what he thinks when someone burns wood and you see no smoke from the chimney...

 

[Slogothor]

Thank you for verifying my thoughts. As a California boy the thought of "freeze drying" wood seemed absurd, at least in this part of the country. Sometimes knowledge and experience is a hindrance and not a benefit. I will be showing him this forum and many other sources of information in the hopes of improving his heating efficiency and preventing the unburned fumes of his from poisoning my family during the nite. I try to stay a few years ahead with our wood but recently I have had to sell it to keep up with things. I will verify a correct chimney height for this area, thanks for that.

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

Unfortunately the cost is my family having to breath the black, heavy, unburned fumes which barely roll out of his chimney and settle all around the houses. He seems to think this is a good sign of an efficient fire.

I wonder what he thinks when someone burns wood and you see no smoke from the chimney...

"They must be burnin on of them inefficient fires."

 

[Backwoods Savage]

James, be sure to show him my signature line so that he knows I am not a novice wood burner but had a couple years under my belt. However, that does in no way imply that I am not open to more learning! I am very happy to learn new things but find that in wood burning there is very little that is new except for the new stoves being so super efficient, which makes the drying of wood just that much more important.

Burning rounds is not a bad thing if you can get them dry. I like to have a certain amount of rounds every year simply because they will hold the fire longer. But I also usually restrict it to 1 or 2 rounds per fire at night and those are not 14" rounds for sure; more like 5-6" maximum. Drying larger rounds just takes too long and is harder packing them in the stove (you can stack the smaller ones tighter so can get more in).

I've stated many times about learning some of these things in my youth and burning dry wood is one of them. That means I have found it simply amazing through the years why folks keep burning green wood. Do they really like burning more wood to get the heat they need? Do they like dirty chimneys? Do they like lots of smoke? Do they like having to cut and handle more wood than they would if they burned dry wood. Or, as you state, it very well could be nothing more than laziness although I've usually hesitated to quote that for fear of hurting some feelings.

Good luck.

 

[firefighterjake]

Different places, different climates and different wood . . . I cannot even imagine being able to season wood in 6-8 weeks . . . 6-8 months even would be pretty amazing. That said, most folks here concur that true seasoning only starts to occur once the wood is split. While rounds can season . . . they do so ever so slowly.

Rain isn't such a big deal . . . although I do recommend putting the wood into a shed or top covering the seasoned wood once you head into burning season since it's a helluva lot easier to start a fire with good, dry wood vs. wet wood.

New stove . . . I highly doubt a new stove would make much of a difference to your father-in-law. In fact, if I was a betting man, I would think it would be worse with an EPA stove as they are even more sensitive to unseasoned wood . . . plus from the sound of it I'm betting he will be the type of person to run an EPA stove with the air control wide open . . . allowing most of the heat to travel right up through the chimney. Incidentally, it also sounds as though his draft may not be all that great with such a short chimney.

As for changing his opinion . . . you're just the son-in-law . . . you've attempted to show him the error of his ways by burning seasoned wood . . . and if he still will not believe you even after doing the "Show and Tell" demonstration . . . well . . . I'm not sure what would convince him . . . even having Backwoods lecture him may not change his set ways. Personally, I'm not sure if it is laziness or just ignorance . . . and I don't mean this in a bad way . . . he simply may have learned from his father and grandfather before him and this is what they did and what worked for him . . . he may simply be engaged in a learned behavior from a parent . . . or it could be that he is too lazy to split the wood. Me . . . I'm pretty lazy . . . which is why I season my wood for a good long time . . . and have an EPA stove . . . since I like the idea of heating more with less wood . . . less wood = more free time (at least that's how it should work in theory . . . in reality I find that I enjoy working with wood.)

 

[wannabegreener]

What if you brought him over a couple of armfuls in the middle of December or January and showed him how well your wood (that has been seasoned) burns vs his wood. Not sure if it would help or not, but it might make him start to think that you might not be a 'meathead'. Sorry - just using the old Archie Bunker terminology. :lol:

Might work.

 

[Slogothor]

I did that, he chose to ignore it, that's just him. I remember Meathead, that's funny. Some people just live in their own little world. I thought if I showed him an overwhelming amount of proof that he would listen but he just won't hear it.

 

[oldspark]

I did that, he chose to ignore it, that's just him. I remember Meathead, that's funny. Some people just live in their own little world. I thought if I showed him an overwhelming amount of proof that he would listen but he just won't hear it.

Sounds to me like his mind is made up, in this case he might be the meathead. :lol:

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Then forget trying to confuse him with the facts because his mind is made up.