chimney connector for BK Princess to existing Selkirk chimney

[RustyShackleford]

I'll be taking delivery of my BlazeKing Princess soon, and want to plan the
double-walled chimney. I'm replacing a Dutchwest unit, so the BKP will
sit in the same spot and connect to my existing Selkirk Metalbestos SSII
chimney. It's be about 56" from the top of the BKP to the collar where
the stovepipe adapter emerges from the ceiling. (I hope I'm using the
right terminology here - by "stovepipe adapter" I'm referring to a piece
of pipe that sticks down from my ceiling about 14", with the top end
connected to chimney at the ceiling support bracket; the single-wall pipe
from the Dutchwest simply slipped OVER this pipe, partway, about 10").
So it's about 42" from the top of the BKP to the BOTTOM of this
stovepipe adapter, but of course there's also the option of trimming the
end of the stove-pipe adapter, as was done in the previous install.

The centerline of the chimney is only 6" from the back wall, and the
centerline of the BKP's flue collar will be 10-11". I want the BKP to
sit as near the rear wall as possible, so I'm looking at an offset of
about 4-5". It looks like this requires me to use Simpson pipe,
rather than Selkirk - if I'm reading the tables correctly, that give
the dimensions for offsets achieved with two 45-degree elbows.

THE STOVE WILL SIT ON A BRICK FLOOR, SET INTO AN ALCOVE
CREATED BY A STUCCO'ED CINDERBLOCK WALL, WITH NO COMBUSTIBLE
MATERIAL ANYWHERE NEAR THE WALL, SO CLEARANCES ARE NOT AN ISSUE.

I would also like for the chimney connector to be easily disassembled,
I don't believe a chimney brush will pass through the offset, so this is
necessary for cleaning.

It seems like I need four pieces: a piece coming up from the stove
(I gather from the BK manual that no special adapter is needed to
connect the pipe to the stove), the two 45-degree elbows (with nothing
in between them, since I want such a small offset), and a piece above
the offset that slides over the chimney adapter.

I can think of four ways to make the thing easily disassembable:

1. Pull apart at the joint between the two elbows (after removing
screws); I'm not sure if there's enough flexibility for this though.

2. Use a piece of telescoping pipe between the stove and the offset.

3. Use a piece of telescoping (or adjustable, is it just a shorter version
of the telescoping, or does it work in a different way somehow ?) above
the offset. Due the required 30-36" of straight pipe required between the
stove and the offset, there's not much room left between the offset and
the stovepipe adapter.

4. Don't install the upper piece of double-wall all the way up the
stovepipe adapter - so there's a gap between the top of the double-wall
and the ceiling collar (from which the stovepipe adapter sticks), and simply
remove screws and slide the double-wall up a little bit. This is
how the previous installation was done, but it seems a litttle hokey.

Anyhow, I'd appreciate suggestions on how to configure this connector -
and thanks in advance !

 

[RustyShackleford]

Damn, it's been awhile (for this group) with no response ...

Didn't mean to scare anybody. Hope you don't think I'm a moron,
with all these questions, and gonna burn the house down. I am an
engineer, mechanic, and all-round practical guy and have been
heating with wood for over 30 years. I just want to figure out
the optimal solution !

Or maybe, folks figure I've already thought it out pretty well and I
just need to decide one way or the other, and it doesn't really matter
that much.

Maybe I should pose some more focused queries:

1. Is my reasoning sound, that I want to use Simpson DVL pipe, since
I don't want an offset as large as the 6" minimum that Selkirk permits ?

2. Is my reasoning sound, that I must disassemble the chimney connector
for cleaning, since a brush cannot pass through the offset section (two 45s) ?

3. Should the Simpson DVL pipe simply slip onto the existing stovepipe
adapter - the one that a 6" single-wall pipe slips over in the old installation ?
Or do I need some sort of special adapter ?

4. Is it true, as the BK manual implies, that no add'l adapter is needed
between the DVL and the BK ?

5. Is there any difference between the "telescoping" and "adjustable" DVL
sections (in terms of how they operate or interface with other sections)
other than that the "adjustable" are much shorter ? The wording in the
catalog applies that "adjustable" are used only paired with a regular
length of pipe.

Thanks !

 

[daryl]

BK seems all the rage this year.Good choice on a stove.Did you get it in black or golden fire brown. But back to your question.
Some stoves you do not need a sove top adpt.They make a telescope pc. that goes from 39" to 69" this is what we use for most installs.Then the two 45,s at the top.You will have too cut the stove pipe adpt. at the ceiling down too about 2". You should not have too recrimp this if you do only a little bit. Use three screws per joint.
They do make smaller slips for that slide over a regular pc of pipe. When it comes time too clean just take the screws out at the slip and pull down. I can push a brush through two 45,s on my system so I do not have too take it apart. Just remember to take out your probe thermoniter.Good luck and have a warm winter.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I am in the same situation installing the King where my VC Encore used to sit. I also have a Selkirk ceiling adapter. Earlier this week, I ordered the Selkirk double wall connector pipe in the configuration Daryl described in his post. I'll let you know in a few days how it works out.

 

[Wet1]

On a somewhat related note... Does the BKP have the same 1/4" thick flange the BKK has? I know the BKP is only 6" vs. the 8", but I don't know if it uses a heavy collar like the larger BK.

The heavy 1/4" collar is pretty rare these days, but BK says they continue to use it on the King because that area sees a lot of heat. I ask because I want to install new douple wall (probably Selkirk) when I move mine into the basement. I contacted BK and asked them if the Selkirk DSP pipe will require a stove top adapter or if it's a direct fit w/o it. BK couldn't tell me and Selkirk has yet to return my call from several days ago.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I contacted BK and asked them if the Selkirk DSP pipe will require a stove top adapter or if it's a direct fit w/o it. BK couldn't tell me and Selkirk has yet to return my call from several days ago.

Didn't think of that one...I'll let you know in a few days. It is a good thing it is still warm out.

 

[Wet1]

I contacted BK and asked them if the Selkirk DSP pipe will require a stove top adapter or if it's a direct fit w/o it. BK couldn't tell me and Selkirk has yet to return my call from several days ago.

Didn't think of that one...I'll let you know in a few days. It is a good thing it is still warm out.

I hear you. At this rate, I'll have a warm garage and a cold house come mid Nov. :cheese:

Thanks, please let me know what you find with the Selkirk.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You will have too cut the stove pipe adpt. at the ceiling down too about 2". You should not have too recrimp this if you do only a little bit. Use three screws per joint.

I got a live one at Selkirk, who explained that the dripless stovepipe adapter (the fixed
piece sticking out the bottom of my chimney) is actually tapered. I didn't realize that.
Right now, it's about 14" long and uncrimped, and the old single-wall slips right up on it
about 10". He said that when I went to double-wall, it could only slide on about 2",
because the rivets that hold the pipe together would stop it. Therefore I'd need to cut
the dripless off (as you say above) and then probably crimp it - since I'm up to a
thicker place on the taper. He said I could do the crimp with a simple cheap tool
available at hardware store.

Then I dropped the S-bomb - telling him I planned to use Simpson DVL due to it
allowing the smaller offset. Gratifyingly he didn't freak out. He just said maybe
it could slide all the way up the dripless, if it was put together differently. Or maybe
its ID is slightly different and it might fit on the cut-off-to-2" dripless without needing
a re-crimp.

On a somewhat related note… Does the BKP have the same 1/4” thick flange the BKK has? I know the BKP is only 6” vs. the 8”, but I don’t know if it uses a heavy collar like the larger BK.

Can't answer, haven't received it yet.

The heavy 1/4” collar is pretty rare these days, but BK says they continue to use it on the King because that area sees a lot of heat. I ask because I want to install new douple wall (probably Selkirk) when I move mine into the basement. I contacted BK and asked them if the Selkirk DSP pipe will require a stove top adapter or if it’s a direct fit w/o it. BK couldn’t tell me and Selkirk has yet to return my call from several days ago.

The BK manual (online) certainly IMPLIES, in the installation drawings, that no adapter is required.

Which brings me to another question - what does the interface of the double-wall and the stovetop look like ?
I read something here that suggests you want the gap (between the two walls) to be open for airflow, for
the double-wall to work as it's supposed to. I can't quite see how that would work ...

Thanks all !

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ok, part of this puzzle is cleared up !

Just talked to a most helpful BK person who said you do NOT need any
kind of stovetop adapter to use either Simpson or Selkirk double-wall
pipe with their stoves. Apparently the inner wall of the pipe sticks
inside the flue collar, the outer wall of the pipe fits around the outside
of the flue collar, and the flue collar itself thereby seals the gap between
the inner and outer walls of the pipe.

The comment that I read here, about it's important for the gap between
the walls to be open at the bottom, is BS according to the BK guy. Basically
the idea is to contain the heat in the flue as much as possible (to keep
the draft going), so having circulation in the air gap is the last thing you
want.

 

[RustyShackleford]

ever heard of overdrafting? i love pat answers

I love stupid posts that don't say anything useful.

 

[RustyShackleford]

They make a telescope pc. that goes from 39" to 69" this is what we use for most installs.Then the two 45,s at the top.You will have too cut the stove pipe adpt. at the ceiling down too about 2". You should not have too recrimp this if you do only a little bit.

So, you're saying just three pieces - telescoping section and the two 45s -
so it's actually one of the 45s that fits over the dripless stovepipe adapter ?
I guess that should work. The elbow won't be able to go onto the dripless
very far. But since your plan uses the telescoping section to allow disassembly
(option #2 in my original post), I don't need to be able to slide things
farther up onto the dripless.

I'm a little leery of cutting off the adapter TOO much, because if I get it to
where I cannot get the Simpson 45 to fit on, even with crimping, I am kinda
screwed. I guess I can do it in stages, using the telescoping section to take
up the slack. Worst case, some of the adapter is not covered by DVL, thus
leaving a few inches of single-wall in my system. Since I'm not doing this
for clearance reasons, but because of the BK's reputed ultra-cool flue gases,
I shouldn't imagine that to be a problem.

 

[daryl]

They make a telescope pc. that goes from 39" to 69" this is what we use for most installs.Then the two 45,s at the top.You will have too cut the stove pipe adpt. at the ceiling down too about 2". You should not have too recrimp this if you do only a little bit.

So, you're saying just three pieces - telescoping section and the two 45s -
so it's actually one of the 45s that fits over the dripless stovepipe adapter ?
I guess that should work. The elbow won't be able to go onto the dripless
very far. But since your plan uses the telescoping section to allow disassembly
(option #2 in my original post), I don't need to be able to slide things
farther up onto the dripless.

I'm a little leery of cutting off the adapter TOO much, because if I get it to
where I cannot get the Simpson 45 to fit on, even with crimping, I am kinda
screwed. I guess I can do it in stages, using the telescoping section to take
up the slack. Worst case, some of the adapter is not covered by DVL, thus
leaving a few inches of single-wall in my system. Since I'm not doing this
for clearance reasons, but because of the BK's reputed ultra-cool flue gases,
I shouldn't imagine that to be a problem.

Take the measurement inside the elbow too see how far your stove pipe connector can stick down in the elbow but this will probably only be 3" or so and you only need 1 1/2".You can always crimp a 6" pipe down enough. But you have yoo use a crimping tool. Its a hand tool you can get at most hardware or big box stores.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I contacted BK and asked them if the Selkirk DSP pipe will require a stove top adapter or if it's a direct fit w/o it. BK couldn't tell me and Selkirk has yet to return my call from several days ago.

Didn't think of that one...I'll let you know in a few days. It is a good thing it is still warm out.

I hear you. At this rate, I'll have a warm garage and a cold house come mid Nov. :cheese:

Thanks, please let me know what you find with the Selkirk.

If you are ordering Selkirk, make sure they have it in stock. Called today to find out why I haven't received a shipping notification for the order I placed last Monday. Backordered until mid-October... Simpson it is.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I contacted BK and asked them if the Selkirk DSP pipe will require a stove top adapter or if it's a direct fit w/o it. BK couldn't tell me and Selkirk has yet to return my call from several days ago.

Didn't think of that one...I'll let you know in a few days. It is a good thing it is still warm out.

I hear you. At this rate, I'll have a warm garage and a cold house come mid Nov. :cheese:

Thanks, please let me know what you find with the Selkirk.

If you are ordering Selkirk, make sure they have it in stock. Called today to find out why I haven't received a shipping notification for the order I placed last Monday. Backordered until mid-October... Simpson it is.

Thanks for the heads-up. I was halfway tempted to go Selkirk, and let the stove sit 2"
farther out into the room, to keep all the lawyers (and lawyer-wannabees here) happy.

Another option, for both of us, is to use single-wall short-term, until the double arrives.
I'm also half-tempted to just try single-wall initially, since my chimney draws so well.

 

[SolarAndWood]

They swapped my order for Simpson and shipped it today. I considered the single wall. However, with the low flue temps that N60 has reported, I stuck with the double wall.

 

[RustyShackleford]

They swapped my order for Simpson and shipped it today.

Oh my god ! And, if I read your earlier post correctly, you have a Selkirk ceiling adapter ?!?
I HOPE you understand that I cannot guarantee that your house will not burn down.

But seriously, which Selkirk ceiling adapter do you have ? The one that is over a foot long (mine
was trimmed in the previous install, so I'm not sure how long it initially was) and which is slightly
tapered (at least that's what the Selkirk tech said, I measure MAYBE a 1/8" increase in circumference
from bottom to top) ?

Please advise how things go: how tight is the fit before/after you presumably trim your adapter, etc ...

 

[SolarAndWood]

lol...a ceiling adapter is made to connect to stove pipe, right? I don't get it either. I have the shorter one, so hopefully won't have to trim/crimp/etc. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Got home from work and found that UPS had delivered the stove pipe. We are comfortably cruising now with a full load of pine and the catalytic hummin. The outside of the DVL was a little tight on the opening of the stove, but not bad. Connecting to the ceiling adapter was trivial. My installation was a little tight with the telescopic and I had to do the old slide the stove in with the pipe at an angle routine. If you are in a situation where the telescopic is largely overlapped, you want it out as far as you can and have it compress as you slide the stove in. Extending it over the collar when the stove was in place was impossible.

 

[daryl]

So is that BK throughing the heat like the old VC used too.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Good evening Daryl...hard to tell, the King has so much more surface area. It is a little bizarre to have a fire that just kind of glows; the VC never did that. I am running about 2.5 with a full load of pine and the cat is in the upper range. Probably more heat than the VC but not sure yet. BTW...anyone who thinks these fans are not loud is nuts. I doubt they will run unless we are sleeping or out of the house.

 

[RustyShackleford]

My installation was a little tight with the telescopic and I had to do the old slide the stove in with the pipe at an angle routine. If you are in a situation where the telescopic is largely overlapped, you want it out as far as you can and have it compress as you slide the stove in. Extending it over the collar when the stove was in place was impossible.

I'm sorry, but can you explain this a little more ? Why won't extending it over the collar (with the
stove in place) not work ? This is how I'm hoping to do mine. Is it simply because even with the
telescoping piece maximally compressed, you can't slip it above the collar ?

 

[SolarAndWood]

My telescopic section is almost completely overlapped. With it this far overlapped, I was unable to put it in place and extend it to make it tight against the ceiling adapter and the stove collar. In fact, I was unable to extend it at all without taking it off. My solution was to leave it a little long and slide the stove back into place like you would do with a fixed section of pipe.

 

[RustyShackleford]

My telescopic section is almost completely overlapped. With it this far overlapped, I was unable to put it in place and extend it to make it tight against the ceiling adapter and the stove collar. In fact, I was unable to extend it at all without taking it off. My solution was to leave it a little long and slide the stove back into place like you would do with a fixed section of pipe.

Gotcha, thanks. Mine should be extended at least 10" or so when installed, so I hope I'll be able to
engage it with the offset (made from two 45s) in the fully-compresed position, and then just open the
telescope down onto the stove collar.

 

[RustyShackleford]

But seriously, which Selkirk ceiling adapter do you have ? The one that is over a foot long (mine
was trimmed in the previous install, so I'm not sure how long it initially was) and which is slightly
tapered (at least that's what the Selkirk tech said, I measure MAYBE a 1/8" increase in circumference
from bottom to top) ?

I think I have this figured out, but here is a picture of what I have ... after removing the single-wall
pipe attached to my old Dutchwest. This thing looks like it was cut off with tin-snips by the previous
installer. The stainless appears to be paited above where the single-wall slipped onto it. That is a
stucco'd cinderblock wall behind everything.