My father and I each have an EFM stoker coal boiler.They both heat well and are pleased with them other than the plugged augers,Dust and the management and expense of a tractor trailer load of coal to put away. After I saw a woodgun in operation,I am really considering switching to a woodboiler/gasification boiler.Anybody got some good solid input on this idea? Thankyou
Coal to wood
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A ton of coal will be equivalent to a shade less than a cord of hardwood (.9) in a good gasser. Mileage may vary.
cheers
cheers
Heck, if I could get my hands on coal, I'd never screw with wood.... 1 ton of anthracite coal has approx 26 million btu's of energy in it, which is equal to about 1.2 cords of good dry hardwood. Now, the average wood gasiffier can get about 80% efficiency and the average decent coal boiler (And EFM's seem to be pretty good from what I understand) is around 85%.....j
Maybe time to look at a different style of coal stoker.... I like the Keystoker system where the coal is carpet-fed into the boiler vs underfed like the EFM.. Used coal boilers can be had for a storm... Just check out the Nepacrossroads.com forum......
Just as a comparison, I'm thinking of going coal, even though here in Wisconsin it will mean paying $280/ton for it to be trucked out here in bags..... It's worth it not to have to screw with wood..... The only thing holding me back is trying to realistically decide if my wallet will allow me.
Maybe time to look at a different style of coal stoker.... I like the Keystoker system where the coal is carpet-fed into the boiler vs underfed like the EFM.. Used coal boilers can be had for a storm... Just check out the Nepacrossroads.com forum......
Just as a comparison, I'm thinking of going coal, even though here in Wisconsin it will mean paying $280/ton for it to be trucked out here in bags..... It's worth it not to have to screw with wood..... The only thing holding me back is trying to realistically decide if my wallet will allow me.
I looked at wood or coal when I was pricing stuff last summer. If you figure in the price of wood split and delivered. Your time is worth a lot more than people realize. It was a wash on the cost of coal versus wood. Pretty close on the cost of equipment also. Soo.. if i was to do it all over again, I'd lean heavily towards coal. No splittin', stackin', etc. Coal varied a little in price in the last few years, but that was trucking charges. So didn't wood.
Wood definitely takes up more space than coal per comparable quantities of Btu's. Some people don't like the mess of coal... some don't like the mess of firewood. To each his own.
Good gasifiers get close to 90% efficient if installed and operated properly. By my calcuations, 1 ton of coal burned at 85% efficiency will be equivalent to 1.0 cord of wood in an Econoburn at 87%. Again, mileage may vary depending on what figures you are using for Btu content. Some good hardwoods (ie hickory, hophornbeam) have Btu contents of over 26 million Btu's per cord when properly seasoned. My calcs used 25 million for the wood, and 26.4 million for coal.
I am not sure what coal is going for in my area, but firewood is anywhere from $120 to $150 in this area split... not delivered. $150 would be the price for decent hardwoods. At that price, $280 per ton of coal seems tough to swallow.
cheers
Good gasifiers get close to 90% efficient if installed and operated properly. By my calcuations, 1 ton of coal burned at 85% efficiency will be equivalent to 1.0 cord of wood in an Econoburn at 87%. Again, mileage may vary depending on what figures you are using for Btu content. Some good hardwoods (ie hickory, hophornbeam) have Btu contents of over 26 million Btu's per cord when properly seasoned. My calcs used 25 million for the wood, and 26.4 million for coal.
I am not sure what coal is going for in my area, but firewood is anywhere from $120 to $150 in this area split... not delivered. $150 would be the price for decent hardwoods. At that price, $280 per ton of coal seems tough to swallow.
cheers
Dunno about the rest of you, but I'd have a hard time cutting my own coal.....
Having lived in a house that had been heated with coal, I'd say that bark litter is easier to clean up than coal dust.
It all depends on the individual goals and circumstances. The economics will vary by personal situation. One of my own goals is self-sufficiency, and coal is a non-starter there.
Having lived in a house that had been heated with coal, I'd say that bark litter is easier to clean up than coal dust.
It all depends on the individual goals and circumstances. The economics will vary by personal situation. One of my own goals is self-sufficiency, and coal is a non-starter there.
CZARCAR said:
Apparently you disagree with my numbers? Please clarify your comment. I did view the link that you posted... the numbers I used are not that far off from what that source quoted. I did assume a relatively high quality firewood species and moisture content as fuel when using the 25mil Btu/cord firgure... and then qualified that with "mileage may vary" as performance will vary drastically depending on what you're actually burning... to the point where 1 ton of coal might have to be replaced by almost 2.0 cord of wood if you are burning junk wood. Most people who are going to buy their firewood will do their best to obtain "the good stuff..." Prices also vary from location to location.
I do sell gasifiers.
I have never sold used cars.
cheers
CZARCAR said:
Hey Czarcar- you're entitled to your opinion, but please keep it fact based, not personal attacks.
I, for one, am really GLAD that some of the folks who sell and install the product spend their time on here sharing what they learn when dealing with the various products. People like Joe Brown, Hot Rod, Heaterman, Piker, and so many others (and I am not omitting anyone else on purpose) are: (1) up front that they work in the trade; and (2) give the rest of us a LOT more time and knowledge than they are likely to EVER be making back in anything resembling direct sales from their participation here.
EACH of the above folks has spent considerable time with me on the phone and/ or e-mail and messages even though I haven't bought a thing directly from any of them. The Tarm guys also spent a lot of time with me when I visited their home base last June.
By having people in the trade on here, we benefit greatly from their knowledge, experience, and even their likely early knowledge of new developments and new products that the rest of us would otherwise not hear of.
I'd have a beef with someone who's a dealer or manufacturer's rep but hides it, but everyone here is pretty up front.
As long as the cards are on the table, and no one is making high pressure slick sales pitches, then, we're all better informed as consumers- which is a good thing
Let's stay on the high road, and welcome all who contribute knowledge and experience- and not hold it against anyone that they happen to be "in the trade"
Thanks
Trevor
Exactly... Even though I disagree with Piker, I won't stand for sarcasm against other members.... It's childish.......
I'd say that very few ever get wood of that quality... But if you can, then that changes things.
Self-sufficiency is pretty low on my priority list.... Cost and ease of use is up high... I don't EVER intend to cut my own firewood again after this winter... If I had the money, I'd burn propane or fuel oil... Since I don't have that kind of money, coal is next on my list... Otherwise, as it stands, the loggers are going to drop a few semi-loads of logs in my lawn and I'll cut it and split it.... But this go into the woods to cut, drag, split, etc is for the birds IMHO......
But, this is a free forum and a free country and each can do as he wishes and I wont begrudge them.....
I'd say that very few ever get wood of that quality... But if you can, then that changes things.
Self-sufficiency is pretty low on my priority list.... Cost and ease of use is up high... I don't EVER intend to cut my own firewood again after this winter... If I had the money, I'd burn propane or fuel oil... Since I don't have that kind of money, coal is next on my list... Otherwise, as it stands, the loggers are going to drop a few semi-loads of logs in my lawn and I'll cut it and split it.... But this go into the woods to cut, drag, split, etc is for the birds IMHO......
But, this is a free forum and a free country and each can do as he wishes and I wont begrudge them.....
deerefanatic for the life of me I could not find the post but I read it somewhere that 2 guys from Wisconsin found some bituminous trucked in for $128 a ton. If I can remember correctly they got it over near the Minnesota border. Might have read it on neppa crossroads, can't remember. If you go to yellowpages.com in your area and type in coal you should get several places, unfortunately not all will sell to the public.
Yep, C Riess coal in Duluth.... Unfortunately, that is the ONLY division of C Reiss that will sell retail. And they now starting this year ONLY sell to a trucking company in Duluth, who then marks it up and resells it. Right now, it's $215/ton with ME picking it up at the trucking companies' yard.....
I can also get coal (Bituminous) from Lacrosse WI at the barge yard for $190/ton..... Problem with bituminous, it's really picky to burn through a stoker.... Though from what I understand, it can be burned in an EKO....... Which would make for a more versatile fuel source choice that way......
I can also get coal (Bituminous) from Lacrosse WI at the barge yard for $190/ton..... Problem with bituminous, it's really picky to burn through a stoker.... Though from what I understand, it can be burned in an EKO....... Which would make for a more versatile fuel source choice that way......
To each their own, but I am with NoFo on this- I can cut my own wood, but cannot mine my own coal. Actually, having once toured an old coal mine now operating as a museum in Lackawanna County PA, I, no matter how frugal I am, would not want to mine my own coal (even though I have a lot of Welsh coal men in my ancestry). Nor do I care to support the current "mountaintop removal" approach to large scale coal extraction.
LOL!! Yah, not the easiest stuff to provide for yourself.......... If I could afford it though, I'd burn coal exclusively.... I figure this: The tree or whatever it was has already died, been cut down, dried, and then compacted and processed to a density and compactness a fraction of it's original size.... So we might as well burn it! Wood's for furniture, coal's for heat!!
Wood's for furniture, coal's for heat!!
deerefanatic said:LOL!! Yah, not the easiest stuff to provide for yourself.......... If I could afford it though, I'd burn coal exclusively.... I figure this: The tree or whatever it was has already died, been cut down, dried, and then compacted and processed to a density and compactness a fraction of it's original size.... So we might as well burn it!
To bad we can't burn rocks!!
pybyr said:
I'm with pybyr on this one. IMO the whole reason for owning a wood fired gasser is clean renewable fuel. Wich coal is not.
deerefanatic's whole point was he is tired of wood and looking for an alternative. I know what he means about being tired of processing wood. A hand fired boiler like the Harmon sf260 might be a better choice than a stoker. In the hand fired you have the option to burn anthracite, bituminous or wood, yes you still have to load by hand but it's a lot easier for your mom to throw in a bucket of coal than trying to lug wood chunks. The burn times are so much better too. I was quoted $4000 for the harmon but I went with energy king mostly because of its bigger fire box. I have already burned enough coal to know it's a whole lot less trouble than wood.
Really, I was worried that hand-fired coal would be even more trouble than wood..... That adds another new dimension...... Hmmmmmm....... And those energy kings are definitely more affordable than a gassifier......
Yah, sure would be nice if we could burn rocks!
yah, renewable fuel doesn't mean squat to me.... We've got enough coal in this country to fuel us for a thousand years.... Might as well use it as to leave it sitting there....... And as far as clean, Anthracite coal burns cleaner than fuel oil, and bituminous coal can be set up in a stoker to burn just as clean as a slightly out of tune gassifier.
Yah, sure would be nice if we could burn rocks!
yah, renewable fuel doesn't mean squat to me.... We've got enough coal in this country to fuel us for a thousand years.... Might as well use it as to leave it sitting there....... And as far as clean, Anthracite coal burns cleaner than fuel oil, and bituminous coal can be set up in a stoker to burn just as clean as a slightly out of tune gassifier.
i find myself in a great situation to comment on this thread. i live in the heart of anthracite coal country. i have an oil boiler and a wood fireplace insert in my home. i also have a single house made into two apartments that i rent out - which i recently converted to coal from oil.
first, my apartment was killing me being oil. i switched to coal for the obvious price difference ($150 a ton - 6 tons total versus $2500 last year for oil). now, i do have to run up there to empty the ashes every day and put them in a hole i left unfilled but i gladly do it. wood would have been out of the question because it's five miles up the road and i work long hours sometimes.
second, my house was killing me being oil. i was given a harman elite coal insert. i took the grates out and added secondary air and burn wood - heated the whole house all winter. i have lots of oak and "free is for me". next year i'm making a wood boiler out of a losch coal boiler for the house.
i guess it's all in what your resources are and how much work your willing to do.
i do want to point out that with coal you have alot more ashes than with wood.
first, my apartment was killing me being oil. i switched to coal for the obvious price difference ($150 a ton - 6 tons total versus $2500 last year for oil). now, i do have to run up there to empty the ashes every day and put them in a hole i left unfilled but i gladly do it. wood would have been out of the question because it's five miles up the road and i work long hours sometimes.
second, my house was killing me being oil. i was given a harman elite coal insert. i took the grates out and added secondary air and burn wood - heated the whole house all winter. i have lots of oak and "free is for me". next year i'm making a wood boiler out of a losch coal boiler for the house.
i guess it's all in what your resources are and how much work your willing to do.
i do want to point out that with coal you have alot more ashes than with wood.
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