cozeburn -vs- hawkens

[trumpeterb]

I am down to these two for my choices for an OWB. I wanted a gassification unit, but the money isn't right yet for that. Anyway, I have read the literature on both the Cozeburn 250 and the Hawken 1100 but was hoping for some input from others. Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these stoves? If so, what are your impressions? I want to get whichever one I choose ordered soon so that it can be ready to go this fall. All opinions count, and I would love to hear yours.

Andy

 

[fabguy01]

(broken link removed to http://www.portageandmainboilers.com/wood.html) Nuff said. :coolsmirk:

 

[webbie]

Well, you said ANY opinions would be welcome!

I would buy "none of the above".

Yes, I know you are looking to save money. But smoking out the rest of us is not the way to do that. Even if you have no neighbors within 1/2 miles (and that is about what it would take), the smoke represents MONEY (unburned fuel) which you are putting into the great outdoors instead of your house.

On top of that there are all the possible regulations which may go into effect in the coming years...and are already in effect in many areas. Then there is the fact the deficient design has caused premature failure of many brands....even some made of stainless steel.

In short, I think if you add up ALL the potential pitfalls, you will see that it is not cheap at all. In fact, over the long run it will likely cost you (and us) more.

My opinion is that I would purchase a regular woodstove - or even an efficient indoor furnace (Cady, etc.) - at a lower cost than an OWB...and get more heat from less wood, while keeping the air cleaner.

IF I had to purchase a "standard" OWB, I would look hard at the real biggies, like Central Boiler. This is because they have made vastly more OWB than any other manufacturer and I think experience might count for something there. They have actual, real engineers on staff whereas many OWBs are built by.....well, I won't go there! This is not meant as a slight on those two brands....you might do your research and find out they have a 200,000 sq ft plant and 5 engineers on staff. However, after seeing the failure of hundreds of OWB from the largest original maker (Taylor), I worry about this stuff.

An old saying goes something like this "If you deal with the lowest bidder, you have to add something for the risks you run......and when you add those risks in, you might have been able to afford the better product in the first place".

Again, not that I am telling you to spend 10K on a Gasifier, but rather than a nice clean burning stove or indoor furnace might be in the cards.

 

[webbie]

http://www.portageandmainboilers.com/wood.html Nuff said. :coolsmirk:

Actually, that is not "Nuff said" IMHO.

Do you work for them? Do you think they are definitely better than other brands for the money?

 

[altheating]

Look at the Portage & Main furnaces, we sell them also. I was very reluctant to take on any OWB's until I saw the P&M;'s. I was impressed with the quality. A load and a half later we had no problems but one draft fan quit turning. Double welded, 1/4" construction, built like a tank! They just came out with the Optimizer 250 a gasification unit. It will be at the Empire Farm Days in two weeks for the first time on display. It has lots of quality refractory and from what I am told they will be offering a huge discount. They tooo have double welded construction and are a true down draft unit. If they are built like the non gasification units from P&M;, and I am sure they are, they will be one rugged unit. We had several installs who replaced CB's and they all claimed that the P&M;'s used way less wood than the CB's did.

 

[altheating]

Webmaster,
You say real engineers, wait a minute, these real engineers are the knuckleheads who designed a tin box in the E-classics instead of using refractory material to contain a 1900 degree flame. which ultimately failed during the first heating season.

 

[julien]

http://www.portageandmainboilers.com/wood.html Nuff said. :coolsmirk:

Incredible !...

«Water returns through grates for maximum heat transfer
taking advantage of the tremendous amount of heat in the
coal bed, further increasing this furnace’s efficiency.»

 

[webbie]

Am I missing something here?
Boilers have had fire tubes in them for over a hundred years!

Are people here that unfamiliar with plain old simple-jane boilers that they are impressed by a tube through a firebox?

 

[webbie]

Webmaster,
You say real engineers, wait a minute, these real engineers are the knuckleheads who designed a tin box in the E-classics instead of using refractory material to contain a 1900 degree flame. which ultimately failed during the first heating season.

Yep, those same engineers!

Still, given the choice, I would buy from a company (them or others) who have installed thousands of them over a couple decades....

Although many of us didn't come right out and say it, we expected problems with the new EPA units. It took the Europeans many years...and thousands of boilers...to work out the kinks. It would be almost impossible for a first year unit to get it right.

 

[fabguy01]

http://www.portageandmainboilers.com/wood.html Nuff said. :coolsmirk:

Actually, that is not "Nuff said" IMHO.

Do you work for them? Do you think they are definitely better than other brands for the money?

do you work for central boiler? Ido not work for them, but from what i,ve researched thay are the best. title of this thread is cozeburn vs hawkens , I was simply giving another boiler option "that in my opinion is a better choice" to someone who from what i gather has his mind set on a OWB.And not try to sell anything. So sorry to upset thy Holyness. :down:

 

[webbie]

No problem with suggesting something which you are familiar with and unaffiliated with...I surely don't work for CB....in fact, they intensely dislike me for telling the truth!

But just posting the link and saying "Nuff Said" is a little suspect. I'm sure the original poster would want more information....like an opinion and why you formed it.

Just saying, my loyal subject!

 

[sdrobertson]

I am down to these two for my choices for an OWB. I wanted a gassification unit, but the money isn't right yet for that. Anyway, I have read the literature on both the Cozeburn 250 and the Hawken 1100 but was hoping for some input from others. Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these stoves? If so, what are your impressions? I want to get whichever one I choose ordered soon so that it can be ready to go this fall. All opinions count, and I would love to hear yours.

Andy

I can only give you my experience. I went from a Homebuilt OWB (which rotted out) to a Central Boiler and then to a EKO 60 with storage in a Pole Building. I liked the CB for ease of use and I didn't have to worry about size of wood. I live in a small village so most of the time I had mine set up on timer and would only allow it to burn at night so I wouldn't bother anyone with the smoke output. During the middle of winter the boiler would cycle enough that I would burn fairly clean because I only burnt seasoned wood but it did smoke. I decided to change because...1. I wanted a pole building. 2. My father had purchased a EKO and I liked the more efficient use of wood. 3. Some brain surgeon in town purchased a locally built OWB unit that really puts out the smoke (for two reasons, poor design and burning freshly cut wood), all of their neighbors houses are right next to each other, and I figured the local ordinances were coming soon. Money wise I did all the installing myself so between the CB and the EKO I have roughly the same cash (not including the building). I agree with Craig as I would steer you towards the indoor furnace or indoor boiler in a small building. The difference between the OWB and a indoor boiler in a outbuilding is some money but it might not be as much as you think at first as you will use the same water lines from either boiler to the house and the same set-up in the house. I wish I had found this site during my first purchase as it would have saved me allot of money in the long run.

 

[altheating]

Same situation here before I was a boiler dealer. Purchased an Aqua-Therm used it a couple of years. It ate wood like there was no tomorrow. Bought an Econoburn, loved it! Cut my wood usage by two thirds. Became a dealer for them. As a matter of fact the second dealer in the country, first dealer in New York State. Since then I have replaced many OWB with Econoburn's. Would rather sell a customer an Econoburn than any other brand that I carry. Why, quality! After over 140 furnaces sold last year and only two issues with non boiler parts, I think I can attest to quality of the furnaces we sell. I know one dealer who had to repair 13 stoves he sold last year due to leaks, and they were all new installed stoves. I had so many customers that wanted a good quality OWB and nothing but an OWB I had to get something. I started to look around to find a Quality OWB. There wasn't much to choose from, until I found Portage and Main from Canada. There will always be people who insist on using a traditional OWB, that is fine, use them, burn way more wood than the gassers, burn more wood in the lesser quality stoves, pollute more and be glad you decided on the lesser expensive lesser quality furnace. In a few years many will wish that they had took the advise of the many knowledgeable folks here in the boiler room. It never seems to amaze me, people get offended by the truth especially if it goes against what they think is best. All we try to offer is our truthful opinions here.. remember You can't fix stupid!

 

[webbie]

It's great to have the perspective from a dealer.....but

There really is no such thing as the "best" boiler or the best product in general. There are only the relatively few you (or I) are experienced with. I sold tens of thousands of units myself, and even then cannot comment on many brands because I had little or no experience with them.

You can find lots of customers that are happy with most brands.....although, IMHO, that does not mean a lot since they have little to compare them too.

I looked at that Portage and it does look a little better than many units I've seen. I like the round firebox and the fact that the box is smaller than most. That said, it probably burns double or more the amount of wood a more efficient unit would.