Day 6 with new Frohling 40/50

[Yankee]

WOW! Set up with a 1000 gallon propane tank for storage. I had a few small fires over a couple of days, and then started to see what this unit will do. The control system is Awsome. I reloaded onto a hot coal bed, and watched the unit handle the changes. Primary and secondary air adjustments, induced air speed changes, O2 readings, and so on. I can't imagine trying to do this in a manual system without complete babysitting. I know, I paid for the automated system, but it really was only about 10% more than other systems I priced.
About the only problem I am having with the system is the circulator pump stays on much longer than I think it should, down to where the boiler temp is about 6 degrees warmer than the bottom of the storage tank. This really mixes up the stratification of the tank.

I guess they must use the "Lambatronic Control System" for different systems, because there are a bunch of functions that are not used with this boiler.

Very happy so far, keeping my 'under remodeling' 200 year old farmhouse warm, mostly from the heat from the storage tank. I should have it insulated in the next couple of weeks, so I'll see how my heat exchanger in the furnace keeps up.

Tom

 

[Piker]

CONGRATS!! I have every confidence that you are going to absolutely love this boiler... hands down it's the smoothest running gasifier I have ever owned, installed, or seen operate. You are right about the controls... in the service menus, there are about a dozen other boilers that you can choose to operate with that platform. Personally, that increases my confidence level in the controls knowing that it's reliable enough to put on a good portion of their entire boiler lineup.

You can change the differential setting between the boiler and tank bottom to either have the pump run a little longer or a little shorter... I am not sure but that parameter might be in the service menu... not the customer menu.

cheers

 

[Yankee]

I love it already. I figure it will take a month or two to really get it the way I want it.

I haven't figured out how to change from the customer menu to the service menu. When I get to the security menu, it gives me a choice of 'customer' or a series of numbers, positive or negative, from zero to ???thousands. Guess I will have to call my dealer, or Tarm Biomass.

 

[Willman]

Any pics to post ?

Will

 

[Piker]

I love it already. I figure it will take a month or two to really get it the way I want it.

I haven't figured out how to change from the customer menu to the service menu. When I get to the security menu, it gives me a choice of 'customer' or a series of numbers, positive or negative, from zero to ???thousands. Guess I will have to call my dealer, or Tarm Biomass.

Rumor has it if you pick the right number you get into the service menu...

talk to your dealer... not sure how different dealers approach the customer entering the service menu, so I obviously can't give out the code. I doubt it will take a month to get the system dialed in... the controls are very well thought out, so a few tweaks here and there and you'll be good to go. It's amazing how little time you actually have to put into setting up, firing and maintaining this unit.

cheers

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

WOW! Set up with a 1000 gallon propane tank for storage. I had a few small fires over a couple of days, and then started to see what this unit will do. The control system is Awsome. I reloaded onto a hot coal bed, and watched the unit handle the changes. Primary and secondary air adjustments, induced air speed changes, O2 readings, and so on. I can't imagine trying to do this in a manual system without complete babysitting. I know, I paid for the automated system, but it really was only about 10% more than other systems I priced.
About the only problem I am having with the system is the circulator pump stays on much longer than I think it should, down to where the boiler temp is about 6 degrees warmer than the bottom of the storage tank. This really mixes up the stratification of the tank.

I guess they must use the "Lambatronic Control System" for different systems, because there are a bunch of functions that are not used with this boiler.

Very happy so far, keeping my 'under remodeling' 200 year old farmhouse warm, mostly from the heat from the storage tank. I should have it insulated in the next couple of weeks, so I'll see how my heat exchanger in the furnace keeps up.

Tom

Tom, How long does it take to heat the 1000 gallons? I realize your tank is uninsulated & is quite a radiator by itself. I would be interested to learn heating times for various cold to hot ranges, Randy

 

[Yankee]

Randy,

I don't really know how long it would take to go from cold to fully heated. I wanted to take it easy for the first few firings, so the tank came up slow. I also have a 120 gal tank for expansion, which is ok when things are up to temp, but is minimal when going from room temperature to hot. I had to take a break and bleed down the tank after getting to about 45 degrees C.

Tom

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Randy,

I don't really know how long it would take to go from cold to fully heated. I wanted to take it easy for the first few firings, so the tank came up slow. I also have a 120 gal tank for expansion, which is ok when things are up to temp, but is minimal when going from room temperature to hot. I had to take a break and bleed down the tank after getting to about 45 degrees C.

Tom

Tom, When you can really let the Froling go would you post this info? I know Piker mentioned that his Froling handled a large amount of water easily, I believe. It's a shame the big bladder expansion tanks are so expensive. I lucked out on a used one. Please keep posting, these are interesting boilers, Randy

 

[Piker]

Randy,

I don't really know how long it would take to go from cold to fully heated. I wanted to take it easy for the first few firings, so the tank came up slow. I also have a 120 gal tank for expansion, which is ok when things are up to temp, but is minimal when going from room temperature to hot. I had to take a break and bleed down the tank after getting to about 45 degrees C.

Tom

Tom, When you can really let the Froling go would you post this info? I know Piker mentioned that his Froling handled a large amount of water easily, I believe. It's a shame the big bladder expansion tanks are so expensive. I lucked out on a used one. Please keep posting, these are interesting boilers, Randy

Randy,

I have been running the Froling on the 40kw setting... 136,000 btu. So far even this has been way more output than I need... I suspect I will be able to run the boiler easily all season on this setting... and could probably add another 500 gallons to the system at this output. I suspect the unit could easily handle 2000 gallons of thermal storage on the 50kw setting in our application. The output rating on this boiler is far more accurate than I expected it to be when run with the proper fuel and storage... at times, it might even seem underrated.

As far as how long it takes to go from cold to hot... that of course depends on what kind of load the heating system is putting on the boiler, and also how well the system stratifies as the storage is charged. Generally, our system starts to see a significant increase in return temps before the tanks are fully charged... just one of the drawbacks of a horizontal tank installation. As the return temp starts to climb, the Froling modulates output down to keep from overshooting the high limit setpoint, thereby increasing the length of time it takes to burn through a load of wood and bring the tanks up to temp. The whole idea is to finesse the tanks up to temperature as opposed to using brute force.


Not intending to hijack the thread... just excited for the new Froling owner and wanted to add my $.02.

cheers

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Randy,

I don't really know how long it would take to go from cold to fully heated. I wanted to take it easy for the first few firings, so the tank came up slow. I also have a 120 gal tank for expansion, which is ok when things are up to temp, but is minimal when going from room temperature to hot. I had to take a break and bleed down the tank after getting to about 45 degrees C.

Tom

Tom, When you can really let the Froling go would you post this info? I know Piker mentioned that his Froling handled a large amount of water easily, I believe. It's a shame the big bladder expansion tanks are so expensive. I lucked out on a used one. Please keep posting, these are interesting boilers, Randy

Randy,

I have been running the Froling on the 40kw setting... 136,000 btu. So far even this has been way more output than I need... I suspect I will be able to run the boiler easily all season on this setting... and could probably add another 500 gallons to the system at this output. I suspect the unit could easily handle 2000 gallons of thermal storage on the 50kw setting in our application. The output rating on this boiler is far more accurate than I expected it to be when run with the proper fuel and storage... at times, it might even seem underrated.

As far as how long it takes to go from cold to hot... that of course depends on what kind of load the heating system is putting on the boiler, and also how well the system stratifies as the storage is charged. Generally, our system starts to see a significant increase in return temps before the tanks are fully charged... just one of the drawbacks of a horizontal tank installation. As the return temp starts to climb, the Froling modulates output down to keep from overshooting the high limit setpoint, thereby increasing the length of time it takes to burn through a load of wood and bring the tanks up to temp. The whole idea is to finesse the tanks up to temperature as opposed to using brute force.


Not intending to hijack the thread... just excited for the new Froling owner and wanted to add my $.02.

cheers

Thanks for the info Piker, there are more variables than I first thought. It sounds like the Froling has the power though. Can the purchaser easily switch between 40 & 50KW? Or is this a dealer mod only? Randy

 

[Yankee]

Piker,

What are you running for the boiler hi limit, and what do you usually try to run your tanks up to? I really need to get some tank sensors, too bad the Frohling 40/50 didn't use the middle sensor. I'm not sure how the logic works for the computer to figure the tank heat level. I can tell with my hand that the tank is hot almost to the bottom, but the bottom sensor is still cool (good stratification), so the "fuel guage" still only has two bars showing. If I added any wood at that point, I would go into slumber mode. Like I said, need to get sensors before I get the tank boxed in.

Tom

 

[Piker]

Thanks for the info Piker, there are more variables than I first thought. It sounds like the Froling has the power though. Can the purchaser easily switch between 40 & 50KW? Or is this a dealer mod only? Randy

This option is in the service menu.

cheers

 

[Piker]

Piker,

What are you running for the boiler hi limit, and what do you usually try to run your tanks up to? I really need to get some tank sensors, too bad the Frohling 40/50 didn't use the middle sensor. I'm not sure how the logic works for the computer to figure the tank heat level. I can tell with my hand that the tank is hot almost to the bottom, but the bottom sensor is still cool (good stratification), so the "fuel guage" still only has two bars showing. If I added any wood at that point, I would go into slumber mode. Like I said, need to get sensors before I get the tank boxed in.

Tom

Your world is going to change big time when you get your tank insulated. There is ALOT of surface area on that tank emitting heat.

I am not in front of the boiler this evening, but if memory serves, I have the boiler limit set to 87° or 88° C... I believe the max you can set it is 90. I run the setpoint a little higher because of our plumbing setup. The way the piping works, when a zone calls for heat the return temps get bumped up quite a bit which can push the boiler close to it's limit. This causes the boiler to respond by slowing the combustion air to prevent overshooting the set point... this is fine, and actually desirable, providing you don't go over your limit and send the boiler into slumber mode (idle). By allowing the boiler to run just a few degrees hotter, I don't ever have to worry that it will enter idle state unless i overfill the firebox. Generally, the max I can take the tanks given the way the controls and piping work is 190... maybe 191 or 192 at the top... plenty hot.

Lately, I have not been going over 175 on the tanks... just don't feel the need. I have been firing once a day with small loads of fuel to try and reduce standby loss from the tanks and piping a little bit. It's not going to amount to a whole lot, but every little bit counts. Plus... I just like firing the boiler.

cheers