Dispelling the myth of outside storage.

[jtakeman]

I also posted this in the NEWP fire thread because that's was were someone saw that they were storing them outside! That is where the whole thing start. It was off topic there, So I started this new one. Let the bashing begin!

My mill contact was way ahead of my little test(see below)!

[quote author="j-takeman" date="1319245389"] I am going to ask a mill contact to do a little experimenting for us. I suggest he check moisture of the pellets right at the bagging station. Then let that pallet sit outside for some time(nicely wrapped of coarse). Open them up and do another moisture test. Be nice to see actual increase, "if" there is any.

Sometimes we must be our own mythbusters![/quote]

Will keep him anonymous. He has already done this for a long time. Here are some bits of the PM.

As long as the cover was intact, there was no significant change in moisture. I’ve tested pellets left on a counter too and they don’t absorb atmospheric moisture. But, if I grind them up first (dust) and leave them on the counter, then they will absorb some.

The problem at the stores isn’t that they store them outside. It’s that the kids driving their forklifts are inexperienced and they tend to smash open the pallets.

The pellets don’t absorb moisture from the air, they have to be physically in contact with the water.

I have a ripped open pallet of pellets that’s been outside since May. I took a sample from one of the wet, ripped bags - a worst case scenario. I reached in the bag and got a hand full of pellets from directly behind the wet mush that were still intact. They tested out at 7.19% moisture (up from the original 5.8% an increase of 1.4%). So they’ll still burn fine but I wouldn’t recommend buying ripped open pallets.

Interesting and hope it helps the outside storage argument.

I don't know about y-all. But I have found a few bags here and there that did get wet. I scooped of the damaged/swelled pellets and dumped the rest in the stove. I really didn't notice much difference in them. Seemed to burn and throw heat. I used to get them for free, So as long as half the bag seemed untouched. I would gladly take it of there hands.


Our buddy Don had a post on where he dumpster dove to get em! Penningtons if I remember right. Thats a pellet pig there!

 

[PA_Clinker]

Thanks for the info! I might think about storing outside next season to free up some much needed garage space.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

In the great race to dis-spell the outside storage "issue", please remember the operative weasel words.

Must have contact with water,

and figure out under what conditions you can get water in contact with the pellets inside a bag with many holes in it even under protective wrap.

Keeping them dry isn't always as easy as it seems when things are outside.

 

[smoke show]

Interesting and hope it helps the outside storage argument.

So there really is no argument regarding outside storage.

The argument should be about proper handling.

 

[jtakeman]

Interesting and hope it helps the outside storage argument.

So there really is no argument regarding outside storage.

The argument should be about proper handling.

Seems that way. He also stated this below.

During the slower periods I have several acres that I use. We always used plywood between the tons to protect the covers. I wish the retail stores would do the same.

I think he means when double stacking them. Placing plywood between the layers and on top of the bottom stack for protection. Seeing even brand new skids could have nails and such sticking out of them. keeps them from piercing the outer covers on the bottom layer.

 

[jtakeman]

In the great race to dis-spell the outside storage "issue", please remember the operative weasel words.

Must have contact with water,

and figure out under what conditions you can get water in contact with the pellets inside a bag with many holes in it even under protective wrap.

Keeping them dry isn't always as easy as it seems when things are outside.

Don't beat me up too bad here! I am just the relay person, Passing along what I get for info!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

In the great race to dis-spell the outside storage "issue", please remember the operative weasel words.

Must have contact with water,

and figure out under what conditions you can get water in contact with the pellets inside a bag with many holes in it even under protective wrap.

Keeping them dry isn't always as easy as it seems when things are outside.

Don't beat me up too bad here! I am just the relay person, Passing along what I get for info!

I ain't going to beat you up, just want to reinforce what water contact can come from.

Ever look at the dew on the grass, your car, or moisture on the inside surface of a cold window. Keeping them dry and you are fine the "issue" is keeping them dry.

While we are at it, it's not just the kids driving the forklift, store customers come into play as well.

 

[DMZX]

I am thinking that the binding agent used during the process prevents pellets from absorbing moisture from humid air, making them moisture resistant as long as the pellets are, well, pellets. But that binder does not protect them from droplets of water.

I have seen pellets stored outside where customers have pulled the wrap off to buy a few bags and make little if any effort to recover the bags properly. At a Walmart I saw an uncovered stack of pellets with 3" of wet snow on top of them.

 

[jtakeman]

In the great race to dis-spell the outside storage "issue", please remember the operative weasel words.

Must have contact with water,

and figure out under what conditions you can get water in contact with the pellets inside a bag with many holes in it even under protective wrap.

Keeping them dry isn't always as easy as it seems when things are outside.

Don't beat me up too bad here! I am just the relay person, Passing along what I get for info!

I ain't going to beat you up, just want to reinforce what water contact can come from.

Ever look at the dew on the grass, your car, or moisture on the inside surface of a cold window. Keeping them dry and you are fine the "issue" is keeping them dry.

While we are at it, it's not just the kids driving the forklift, store customers come into play as well.

Whew, I have been chased by bears before! That aint fun! ;-)

I am guilty of wrapper peeking myself! :red:

 

[slls]

Here's my story. 2 summers ago I left half a bag of pellets in my living room plastic storage bin with cover.
When I went to burn them the flame was low, no good at all. When I checked the heat exchanger it was all creosote.
I didn't do moisture test, I knew what it was. I now store my pellets properly for summer.

 

[mascoma]

I am thinking that the binding agent used during the process prevents pellets from absorbing moisture from humid air, making them moisture resistant as long as the pellets are, well, pellets. But that binder does not protect them from droplets of water.

I have seen pellets stored outside where customers have pulled the wrap off to buy a few bags and make little if any effort to recover the bags properly. At a Walmart I saw an uncovered stack of pellets with 3" of wet snow on top of them.

There should be no "binding agent" in a wood pellet.

 

[RKS130]

To my small and inexperienced mind it seems to me that the right question is not being asked. I can accept that an intact pallet of pellets, properly wrapped and protected, will not absorb moisture, absent unusual circumstances or a breach in the integrity of the encapsulation.


BUT . . . if I have that pallet in my driveaway I have to cut into the wrapping to access the first bag. I certainly cannot rewrap the pallet every time I remove some bags. What will the moisture level be when I get to the 30th bag, a month later? That, to my uneducated mind, is the 64 grand question.

 

[smoke show]

I've never had to try(store my pellets indoors) but I thought it was possible to keep the outerwrap(bag) intact for reuse?

 

[jtakeman]

Once the pallet is broken into, Sounds like its best to get them indoors.

 

[mascoma]

I've never had to try(store my pellets indoors) but I thought it was possible to keep the outerwrap(bag) intact for reuse?

If you remove the outer big BAG over the top of the pallet instead of cutting it off you can then place it back over the pallet.

 

[jtakeman]

I am looking to put a few tons outside, I personally would bring in one full/whole ton at a time as I have the room. Once what I have stored indoors is burned off is what the outdoors stuff will replace. I still will also add an extra tarp to cover them outdoors JIC!

I suppose if your careful? But you had better weigh the cover down all around. Wind blown rain does go sideways! Get an air gap in your cover you could loose a few to mother nature!

 

[krooser]

I rip the bags open and put the pellets in a big pile...easier to shovel into the stove. They are covered by a big tree....

 

[hossthehermit]

I rip the bags open and put the pellets in a big pile...easier to shovel into the stove. They are covered by a big tree....

Krooser, do you sift the fines out???

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

How's that working for you now that the leaves are going or gone? Or did you put the pile under an evergreen?

 

[jtakeman]

I can see where this thread will be heading! :red:

 

[smoke show]

Lets hope it stays on track.

Looking forward to everyones comments.

 

[DMZX]

I am thinking that the binding agent used during the process prevents pellets from absorbing moisture from humid air, making them moisture resistant as long as the pellets are, well, pellets. But that binder does not protect them from droplets of water.

I have seen pellets stored outside where customers have pulled the wrap off to buy a few bags and make little if any effort to recover the bags properly. At a Walmart I saw an uncovered stack of pellets with 3" of wet snow on top of them.

There should be no "binding agent" in a wood pellet.

The agent that binds is lignin. When heated it acts as a natural glue.

Guess I should have been more specific.

 

[slls]

To my small and inexperienced mind it seems to me that the right question is not being asked. I can accept that an intact pallet of pellets, properly wrapped and protected, will not absorb moisture, absent unusual circumstances or a breach in the integrity of the encapsulation.


BUT . . . if I have that pallet in my driveaway I have to cut into the wrapping to access the first bag. I certainly cannot rewrap the pallet every time I remove some bags. What will the moisture level be when I get to the 30th bag, a month later? That, to my uneducated mind, is the 64 grand question.

I reseal even in my garage, some folds and couple of bricks. Wood is like a sponge.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

I can see where this thread will be heading! :red:

Did you really think for a minute that it wouldn't?????

 

[jtakeman]

To my small and inexperienced mind it seems to me that the right question is not being asked. I can accept that an intact pallet of pellets, properly wrapped and protected, will not absorb moisture, absent unusual circumstances or a breach in the integrity of the encapsulation.


BUT . . . if I have that pallet in my driveaway I have to cut into the wrapping to access the first bag. I certainly cannot rewrap the pallet every time I remove some bags. What will the moisture level be when I get to the 30th bag, a month later? That, to my uneducated mind, is the 64 grand question.

I reseal even in my garage, some folds and couple of bricks. Wood is like a sponge.

Might want to change that to "wood fiber" Take a split or 2x4 and try to suck up some grape juice! In a solid form not so much as when in fiber/saw dust. Saw dust/fiber will suck up moisture much better.