Dissapointed with new PFI pellet standards - See chart and article

[Don2222]

Hello

My disappointment is in one of the very most important specifications of pellets. Moisture Content!

The old Super premium spec specified less than 6% moisture and starting this year Geneva Super Premium Wood Pellets achieved that and stated 4% on their bags!!

This gives 200 to 300 more BTUs per pound I got a bag to try and it should be interesting! Will they be a collectors item? Should I get a few tons?

These new standards do not seem to be trying to achieve a better pellet but just relax standards by allowing more ash in the PFI Utility Standard!

In reading this Raising the Bar article (Ironic because eliminating Super Premium is Lowering the Bar),
(See http://www.biomassmagazine.com/articles/5457/raising-the-bar)
It seems that there must be some big payoff to PFI for killing the Super Premium Standard and help pave the way to allow European Manufacturers to come here to the US and make LOWER quality pellets for their Utility Companies back in Europe That is just makes me MAD!
See this article about a German company coming here!! http://www.biomassmagazine.com/articles/5459/pellet-pitfalls

Any comments?

Also for reference see:
http://pelletheat.org/pfi-standards/what-are-the-pfi-standards/
Outlines the actual grade parameter test method requirements for densified fuels registered in the program. Several key changes have been made to this document, including:
1. Inclusion of another fines testing option.
2. Removal of the Super Premium grade.
http://pelletheat.org/wp-content/up...ential-Commercial-Densified-Fuel-10-25-10.pdf

Any Complaints can go to Jennifer Hedrick the new PFI director http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5823/hedrick-named-pfis-new-executive-director
Why is the old director gone??

See the link below about Geneva Super Premium the Good Old Super Premium Specs and pics. Like to get that Super Premium Spec back!!
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/77614/

Click on chart to enlarge charts
Chart 1 - new PFI standards and Chart 2 - Old PFI Standards with Super Premium!

 

[jtakeman]

There was a time when PFI asked for consumer input, I know there was some chatter about the super premiums and the added cost. Some thought it gave the mills room to charge more for a product that was only slightly better than a premium pellet.

One new item on this is PFI wants third party verification. Basically a random sample taken at the mill and check to see if it in fact meets the PFI standard. Not sure if they implemented this yet???

 

[FyreBug]

My understanding is the current standard was just not working. Too many pellet MFG who were not even listed with PFI slapped on Super Premium labels on no matter what they produced.

The current rule is if you are a registered pellet MFG with PFI you send them 2 bags a month for verification. Guess which 2 bags i'm sending to PFI if I'm a MFG?

I havent read the new proposal but I heard there will be better verification & audit.

 

[jtakeman]

Thats been my biggest complaint! There wasn't any audits/spot checks. Once approved they could bag anything they wanted. Hence my spot checks! Most were in standards, But I did find a few that were out of spec!


Do we really need a PFI label???

 

[sinnian]

Unfortunately THEY (PFI and MFG) can do anything they want, and we just have to bend over and take it. It is all a 'dog and pony' show. Not that I am a big fan of government regulation, it would be the ONLY way to ensure any standards. MFG do not need to abide by PFI standards, and as we have seen PFI changes their standards yearly.

 

[Delta-T]

sadly, until the (gasp) EPA or some other regulatory body steps in to mandate the minimum standards, it will just be a suggestion on how to make pellets. The political attitude of the "good old boys" of the industry are really whats holding things back. Noone wants to be a pioneer, just a settler. As if we should trust the testing data anyways...where are all the pellets tested? Pretty much 1 place has that distinction...care to guess if "money talks" in that venue? Wonder why noone here tests for chlorine/sodium content? The moisture content thing I htink is laughable. Unless you can store the pellets in a vaccum they will start to absorb the ambiant moisute in a matter of hours/days. Your wallet is still the most respected testing laboratory in the pellet industry.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

That's whu sites like this are popular. Sort of regulation by the people.

 

[jtakeman]

Here is a look at the new label.

One other thing I find interesting is Chris-Wiberg from Twinports is also on the PFI board.

 

[jtakeman]

sadly, until the (gasp) EPA or some other regulatory body steps in to mandate the minimum standards, it will just be a suggestion on how to make pellets. The political attitude of the "good old boys" of the industry are really whats holding things back. Noone wants to be a pioneer, just a settler. As if we should trust the testing data anyways...where are all the pellets tested? Pretty much 1 place has that distinction...care to guess if "money talks" in that venue? Wonder why noone here tests for chlorine/sodium content? The moisture content thing I htink is laughable. Unless you can store the pellets in a vaccum they will start to absorb the ambiant moisute in a matter of hours/days. Your wallet is still the most respected testing laboratory in the pellet industry.

Delta-T,

I know the test for chloride/sodium is governed by ASTM E776. But I can't nail down the actual test requirements. If anyone has more info on the test i'll take a few swings at it.

In general to others:

I'd like to know moisture content just to see if some of the different brands have a lower MC and also get higher heat results. But checking MC seems to be to much of a PITA! I'd like a simple meter that would give me a MC. If there is something out there? I'd like a link to it.

 

[smoke show]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ryobi-Digit...664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336a17c890

http://www.dickey-john.com/products/agriculture/moisture-testing/m3g/

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ryobi-Digital-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-BRAND-NEW-/220823275664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336a17c890

http://www.dickey-john.com/products/agriculture/moisture-testing/m3g/

Pook told me those won't work! He said I need to do it the PFI way(weigh a sample-heat for a bit-and reweigh sample). Hey wait a minute. Pook isn't here anymore. %-P

So if this meter gets a relitively close reading? Would that be exceptable????

 

[mascoma]

It seems to me the PFI folks see industrial use of pellets as the growth opportunity right now, not residential bag sales.

Premium = home heating
Standard = institutional heating (schools, Etc)
Utility = Industrial steam plants and Electric Generation +++ Export

 

[smoke show]

Would that be exceptable????

me thinx so

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ryobi-Digital-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-BRAND-NEW-/220823275664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336a17c890

http://www.dickey-john.com/products/agriculture/moisture-testing/m3g/

Pook told me those won't work! He said I need to do it the PFI way(weigh a sample-heat for a bit-and reweigh sample). Hey wait a minute. Pook isn't here anymore. %-P

So if this meter gets a relitively close reading? Would that be exceptable????

If this meter was used consistently across all brands the information would be just as useful.
One bag one time not so much.
But a big sample size would allow you to make a good judgment which pellets were higher or lower.

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ryobi-Digital-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-BRAND-NEW-/220823275664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336a17c890

http://www.dickey-john.com/products/agriculture/moisture-testing/m3g/

Pook told me those won't work! He said I need to do it the PFI way(weigh a sample-heat for a bit-and reweigh sample). Hey wait a minute. Pook isn't here anymore. %-P

So if this meter gets a relitively close reading? Would that be exceptable????

If this meter was used consistently across all brands the information would be just as useful.
One bag one time not so much.
But a big sample size would allow you to make a good judgment which pellets were higher or lower.

I would probably check each bag. I usually sample 2 bags for a review. I would probably use an average of the 2. I'll have to do some experimenting if I do get the unit.

I wonder if I dissolved some pellets in water(probably distilled) and check with a simple dip test strips to check chlorides. Or this?

http://www.aquachek.com/productinfo.asp?id=19

 

[Don2222]

Thats been my biggest complaint! There wasn't any audits/spot checks. Once approved they could bag anything they wanted. Hence my spot checks! Most were in standards, But I did find a few that were out of spec!


Do we really need a PFI label???

Do not need the standard now, the specs are so loose most anything will pass now!!

 

[Don2222]

There was a time when PFI asked for consumer input, I know there was some chatter about the super premiums and the added cost. Some thought it gave the mills room to charge more for a product that was only slightly better than a premium pellet.

One new item on this is PFI wants third party verification. Basically a random sample taken at the mill and check to see if it in fact meets the PFI standard. Not sure if they implemented this yet???

Jay, you are correct about charging more but in reality this is how it works.

The big box stores sell premium wood pellets for $197 per ton.

Our grain store has the new super premiums for $233 per ton.

This gives these mom and pop grain stores something to sell that is certified better for only a few bucks more.

That gives the consumers a real good choice instead of guessing which are the better pellets. The prices cannot be much higher but a win-win situation for all!!

I just hope this good stuff in the pics below will not go away!

 

[jtakeman]

I was sent this link by one of the pellet mills. Its what they use to keep an eye on moisture content.

http://www.azic.com/ins_computrac.aspx

Too rich for my blood!

 

[bigruckus]

There was a time when PFI asked for consumer input, I know there was some chatter about the super premiums and the added cost. Some thought it gave the mills room to charge more for a product that was only slightly better than a premium pellet.

One new item on this is PFI wants third party verification. Basically a random sample taken at the mill and check to see if it in fact meets the PFI standard. Not sure if they implemented this yet???

Jay, you are correct about charging more but in reality this is how it works.

The big box stores sell premium wood pellets for $197 per ton.

Our grain store has the new super premiums for $233 per ton.

This gives these mom and pop grain stores something to sell that is certified better for only a few bucks more.

That gives the consumers a real good choice instead of guessing which are the better pellets. The prices cannot be much higher but a win-win situation for all!!






I'm going to pick up 2 tons of the Geneva pellets...bought 2 bags this week and the ash was low and the heat was great....found a place nearby for $220.00 a ton...I'm off in a hour to pick them up...The Geneva pellets are nice light tan in color and the size is good for my Thelin stove...1" and smaller in length..no clinkers either....
I just hope this good stuff in the pics below will not go away!

 

[forya]

what is the little squiggly line for ~ ? does that mean approximately? The Ash says .5% but the BTU and moisture have that ~ in front of them

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

what is the little squiggly line for ~ ? does that mean approximately? The Ash says .5% but the BTU and moisture have that ~ in front of them

Yes ...

 

[Bank]

I would not go by any trade association, usually these orgs are bought and paid for the by the manufacturers. Not saying PFI is in bed with anyone. Just saying I would listen to actual consumer users such as on this forum. I;ve tried alot of pellets and most peoples' opinions on this forum are pretty close to dead on.

Few and far complaints about Okies and VT Pellet as an example and I think most of us agree the Appling County and Pennington's Natures Heat are trash. Most of us have found the locals like NEWP/CleanfFre and Maine's Choice to be OK, middle of the road pellets. We've also seen some mills get better QC after getting their doors blown off by folks on this forum and seen variations between batches, not to mention different stoves may have a hard time with certain pellets. We won't even get on the topic of stove maintenance, some are fanatical about cleaning and others are like "oh I have to clean this thing".

But like many have said, try b4 U buy!!

 

[krooser]

Let the buyer beware.. and that's the way it should be.

Can you imagine the government regulating firewood standards? Well pellets are just one or two steps away removed from firewood... what we don't need is a shortage and I can guarantee that we would see pellet shortages after pellet makers close down after having enough with any gov't BS. Any we can't afford some huge new bureaucracy...

The way to protect yourself is buy a few sample bags, come here to ask questions and buy from reliable sources...

 

[forya]

The Problem for most of us, is that most of the reviews on here as well as most of the contributes are from New England. I live in the Philadelphia Suburbs, and none of the brands you mentioned there are available here. j-takeman. Hits some of the brands available here, but only about half. The PFI is what most of the rest of the country has.