Dodge Dakota- Would you put in a new engine?

[jdinspector]

I have a 2002 Dodge Dakota with 165,000 miles. It was my old work truck and has been generally pretty dependable. I "demoted" it to my 3rd car last year and have driven it weekly (usually on weekends only) since then. My daughter just turned 16 and has been driving it too. It has been great for retrieving firewood, towing a boat or snowmobile trailer, running crap around to different places and just having a 3rd car to use.

So, last week, my daughter was using it and it stalled on her. I went to rescue her and it was out of coolant. I had some water with me and added coolant, but it was missing on 1 or more cylinders (it's a small 4.7 V8). I had it towed to a local shop where they did some trouble shooting. There is 0 compression on one of the cylinders. The shop proposed doing a "leak down test", but explained that this could likely be a valve job (from a bent valve, or rocker problem), or some other larger problem. Repair relative to a valve job would be around $1500. The engine has never burned any oil and just started to use coolant about 3 months ago. I had been diligent about keeping coolant levels up including adding coolant the very day my daughter had her problem. I never saw coolant dripping out and coincidentally did an oil change the day before her stalling problem. There was no coolant in the oil.

So, I'm baffled by this one. I won't do the major engine work myself and can't decide if I should have it done, or just replace the engine. I don't think I would consider replacing it with a used engine. A new engine is about $2.5 - 3K, excluding labor. I plan to keep the truck for a while. It would be nice to keep it for my wood hauler for years to come. In fact, I'll have two more drivers next year (twin boys turning 15 soon). We'll need a 3rd car. Everything works on this truck. It's heavy, safe, (has been) dependable, and I've had a good amount of front end and suspension work done within the last 2 years. So, is it worth putting $4K into a truck with that many miles? Is it taking a chance to "only" do the valve job on a truck with 165K miles (assuming that's all it needs)?

 

[flyingcow]

I've bought used engines before. Always with a 30 day warranty. I wouldn't hesitate again. Drop a used one in and run as your main vehicle for the month just to make sure it's ok. There are reputable places to buy used.

Or i would junk the truck. Look around for used truck, should be able to buy a used truck for = to or less than putting a new motor in with a drivetrain of that high of mileage. Front ends and tranny's aren't cheap.


Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[kettensäge]

If you need it and use it than it is worth it.


My BIL has an 02 or 03 Ram 4.7. It blew up last winter. The Chrysler dealer found a junkyard motor with a warranty and installed it. Turned out to be the wrong year, something with the trigger wheel for the crank sensor. They found the problem after it was installed and wouldn't start. I figured they would know or at least check something like that instead of taking the yards word.
They ended up pulling it again and getting a Jasper remanned engine with a much better warranty for a few bucks more. He didn't have to pay the extra labor and got to use a loaner car for free, whole job ended up being 15 or so days.

http://www.jasperengines.com/index.php

 

[Jack Straw]

How rusty is it? 2wd or 4wd?How is the truck otherwise-Tranny, front end etc? That sounds like a lot of money for a truck that old, but if it's in really good condition it may be worth it. Sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know rather than a used devil you don't. I am 46 and 160k on a vehicle sounds like a lot but nowadays it really isn't.

 

[maple1]

I wouldn't go the valve job route, if you're considering that - losing coolant for a while doesn't really sound like valves.

I'd do the used motor route - if you can find a decent one.

 

[jdinspector]

How rusty is it? 2wd or 4wd?How is the truck otherwise-Tranny, front end etc? That sounds like a lot of money for a truck that old, but if it’s in really good condition it may be worth it. Sometimes it’s better to deal with the devil you know rather than a used devil you don’t. I am 46 and 160k on a vehicle sounds like a lot but nowadays it really isn’t.

Jack Straw- It's not rusty. A little rust in the bed now that the topper has been taken off for a year or so. (it's parked outside). It's a 4 wheel drive. I'm inclined to go with the "devil you known" route too. I've owned the truck since new and taken good care of it. As I said, everything works and the interior is in good shape.

I guess I'll start looking for a good used engine.

 

[billb3]

Seems strange that they are talking valves and not just a blown out head gasket (s).

You << might want to do head and valve work due to age while they have it apart, but often they can just shave the heads if they're not warped and slap it back together.

 

[Dune]

If you are going to do it, do it right.

Put a brand new engine in or junk it it.

If you are doing the work yourself, you can risk a used engine but not if you are paying someone else to do it.

Even a warrenteed used engine is a bad risk, because the warrenty only covers the engine, not the labor to take it out and re-install a different one.

Most shops that I know will not install used engines just for this reason.

 

[boatboy63]

Be very careful buying a used 4.7l engine. I have an 01 Dakota Sport 4x4 standard cab with a 5 speed and the 4.7. The truck has 80,000 miles on it and the engine is shot. From what I read on a Dodge board, there is a common problem with some that Dodge doesn't want to admit to. There is an area of the block that is thinner than it should be. This causes some oils to overheat in this area to the point of building up a small carbon (burnt) crust from the oil. Eventually, it falls off, goes to the oil pan and then plugs the screen on the oil pump. Dodge considers it as lack of maintenance on the owner's part. My Dakota ran great when I first bought it used. After a few months, it developed a knock. Oil pressure when cold was great but when it warmed up, it dropped 75%. Got to the point, when idling, oil light would come on because oil pressure had dropped to nothing. Tap the gas ever so slightly, and oil pressure was right back up there. Did a compression check and all are good. I am afraid bearings are worn out on it now because of the screen issue. It has been parked in the driveway for 2 years now until I get the time and money to do something. Been driving my 97 Dakota with a 3.9l V6 with 140,000 miles since this happened. Also, on this engine, just to drop the oil pan, the engine has to be unbolted and raised up for the pan to clear the crossmember.

I tend to agree about a head gasket being blown. This is causing your compression to leak out and use coolant. Also, I am sure you have hit the pedal to the metal a time or 2 with it. This engine in a Dakota is a pocket rocket. It will run with some Mustangs. Do you really want your soon to be driving sons to be behind the wheel with this much power? If you were anything like I was as a child, you will know what I mean. The insurance would be expensive for them too. I would go with a car with a 4 cylinder, especially for fuel economy and less power. The only way I will buy another Dodge truck is if it says Cummins under the hood.

 

[jdinspector]

Boatboy and all,

I appreciate the input. Yes, it is a pretty quick truck. I've added an aftermarket exhaust and it sounds pretty cool. I doubt this one would run with a mustang. I do plan to keep this truck after my kids are done destroying it. I scrounge a lot of firewood that gets tossed in the bed along with towing a utility trailer full of wood, occassionally tow a boat and snowmobile trailer, and generally get around in the snow. The 4 wheel drive is invaluable (even on a slippery boat ramp).

I'm going to get some firm pricing from the local garage and make a decision. I do appreciate the input on the used engine route. I am leery (sp?) of that.

Maybe I'll spend a little more money and have them pull the head to see what's going on.

 

[boatboy63]

I think I would also get an opinion from another garage before pulling the head. I have been a mechanic for over 30 years, and what they are telling you just doesn't sound right.

 

[joefrompa]

It stalled and was out of coolant and has 0 compression in one cylinder. You've had to addcoolant for 3 months but never saw it drip nor any plumes of white smoke and it wasn't in the oil?

Umm, to me, it's time to say goodbye to that truck. It's worth about what you'd put into it to get it back on the road. Wholesale it and get a well cared for GMC/Chevy/Ford of equal year mileage etc. for only a few k more.

I'm sorry but those dodge dakota's of that era were not a pinnacle in dodge manufacturing. I think you'd be better served by moving to another truck of equi-mileage that's been well cared for and doesn't have any major drivetrain issues.

 

[pastera]

Adding coolant for three months means the coolant had to go somewhere - You now have coolant washed cylinders head gasket or crack) and trashed bearings.

Kelly Blue book says $4k private party for a used Dakota 4x4 regular cab in my area - 4k for a new engine doesn't make sense

 

[smokinj]

I've bought used engines before. Always with a 30 day warranty. I wouldn't hesitate again. Drop a used one in and run as your main vehicle for the month just to make sure it's ok. There are reputable places to buy used.

Or i would junk the truck. Look around for used truck, should be able to buy a used truck for = to or less than putting a new motor in with a drivetrain of that high of mileage. Front ends and tranny's aren't cheap.


Just my 2 cents worth.

+1

 

[kettensäge]

Most likely went out the tailpipe, wouldn't hurt much more than the cats/oxy sensors. It's better than it getting in the oil or hyrolocking the cylinder.
This would be the perfect DIY job.
I've done this before on several vehicles I have owned. The resale is better provided it's kept in good overall condition. Looks are everything. You would be surprised how much more important a clean interior, shiny wheels and low miles are than a well maintained drivetrain is to the typial used car buyer. I would rather have a well maintained 100k mile used car than one with 40k and only 2 oil changes.

I look at it this way, spend 4K on another used truck with the original engine and unknown history and get a payment book, or spend 4K on a vehicle you own from new and get a new engine at the same time.
I would seriously consider a rebuilt motor in this case VS. junkyard. The 4.7's are just to risky, wouldn't want to pay twice.

 

[festerw]

I'm a Dodge guy but the 4.7's are a terrible engine, I wouldn't chance a new or used one.

Don't know if it's possible but you could look into swapping a 5.2/5.9, they were a stock 2nd Gen engine so it should be plausible and they can be had for cheap.

 

[boatboy63]

jdinspector,
Just to back up and clarify what I said about the 4.7's having problems, after reading more in depth, the problem is more toward engine sludge. It is caused by many brands of oil and starts at the oil fill cap. Because of the composition and location of the fill neck, condensation occurs and sludges the engine. As the sludge cooks, many times it will clog the oil pump screen. I will provide a link explaining the way Dodge has denied responsiblilty and another telling of the specific issue. As I said in a previous post, I loved my truck but Dodge's failure to admit a problem and preference to place blame on the owner left a bad taste in my mouth toward future purchases of their vehicles. I bought it with about 60k on it and always used Mobile 1 synthetic and a Wix filter. This is the same setup I have ran on 2 Nissans with over 200k and no engine lubrication issues.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/dodge_dur_oil.html
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-40245.html

 

[jdinspector]

Thanks boatboy. Ugggh. I'll go over to the shop and check the oil filler neck. I recall seeing some whitish crap in there. Doesn't help me now, but it might help make my decision about what to do.

There is a lot of criticism about the 4.7 engine. I've always been happy with it. Hell, I put 165K miles on it without any problems. That's pretty good for urban driving (Driving in and around Chicago daily for 8 years).

 

[Dune]

Thanks boatboy. Ugggh. I'll go over to the shop and check the oil filler neck. I recall seeing some whitish crap in there. Doesn't help me now, but it might help make my decision about what to do.

There is a lot of criticism about the 4.7 engine. I've always been happy with it. Hell, I put 165K miles on it without any problems. That's pretty good for urban driving (Driving in and around Chicago daily for 8 years).

Not really. A good engine can/should last twice that long.

 

[willworkforwood]

There is a lot of criticism about the 4.7 engine. I've always been happy with it .....

From what you've also said earlier, you have a need for this vehicle, or something like it. Some of the replys suggest replacing it with a "well-maintained" truck. I've always had lots of doubts about this. Even if they can produce dated shop receipts for oil changes and other maintenance, how well was all of that work done? Did any "additives" go in with the oil, due to someone being careless? You said the truck has no problem rust. If it were me, liking that truck as much as you do, I would roll the dice and throw a new engine in. Sure, the tranny might go next, but isn't that just as likely to happen to a replacement used truck with a few years on it? Heck, now that you know how to de-sludge it, the new motor would probably get the 330K miles mentioned above. After that, in 2026, you can sell it ;-). Good luck with it!

 

[begreen]

I'd 'lectrify it.

 

[Dune]

I'd 'lectrify it.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/

 

[MasterMech]

jdinspector,

I had a Mustang 5.0 HO that had similar symptoms to your 4.7. Turned out the heads had warped (Car had over 150K on it, none of it easy, :lol just enough to leak coolant into the cylinder when the engine was up to temp but not cold. So it passed a pressure test (on the cooling system), leak down test, compression test, and never leaked externally. Drove me nuts until one night I tore the top-end apart to figure it out. Had the heads milled flat and rebuilt/valve job. Car ran fantastic after that.

If the bottom end is verified to be in good shape, via a leak-down test and visual inspection after the heads are off, I'd do the same to your engine. Did it have a lot of "piston slap" when cold starting? That's pretty common to a 4.7L with over 150K on the clock. Dakota's of your vintage are a pretty good truck (far better than the current ones IMO) and it's worth investing in if it's still a solid vehicle. Remember, few people are selling a vehicle because it has no problems, needs no work and they just don't need it anymore. Sounds like you've taken care of the usual 4wd truck issues anyways with the front end work. I'd make the decision on how to proceed based on what the shop finds regarding the condition of the bottom end of the motor.

PS. The no compression in one cylinder could be either a blown out head gasket or sticking/damaged valve which would be taken care of via the milling/valve job route.

Good Luck!

PPS: I don't know if I'd shell out for a "new" engine but something re-manufactred/re-built with a warranty might make more sense $-wise. I did the disassembly/assembly on my engine myself and had the head work done for $500. Should be an easy engine to work on since it's not an overhead cam motor and you will not be disturbing timing or cam positions.

 

[Hass]

http://www.jasperengines.com/index.php

Jasper Engines are built right near my house.
My brother's 1988 GMC Safari had a Jasper engine in it...
That thing was amazing, haha.
He bought it from a police officer.... You think minivans are slow? Think again...

If you're somewhat handy, do the repair job yourself.
Get a good manual, maybe find the Dakata online forums, I'm sure there's plenty of how-to/walkthroughs for it.

I dug right in to my old 99 grand am many years back when it needed a new head gasket.
I never touched engines before except for oil changes... But it was easy as pie. (well, it wasn't exactly that easy... and took me probably about 5x longer than a professional, but it was free labor when I would've otherwise been jerking around)

Or else have them drop in a used/reman if you want a shop to do it.
Don't go new... No reason.
Jasper engines are beastly though.

 

[Joe Matthews]

I would not consider trying to do any top end head repairs on that engine to repair it since it was undoubtedly overheated and most likely the bottom end would not last. If you can not put the engine in yourself or find someone who could help guide you through the process, I would sell it as is. You would spend more money than it is worth to purchase a new engine and have it put in. The engine is only one part of the process. You will spend quite a bit of money to do it right on new hoses, radiator cleaned and or replaced, fluids, gaskets, and all the other incidentals you will need. Then you have to figure labor costs. You could take some nice photos and put it on craigslist as is for 1000 dollars or so and put the money into another wood hauler. Good luck!