Does any state or city require firewood retailers to divulge moisture content?

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John Ackerly

Burning Hunk
I recently saw how the San Fran Bay Area requires firewood dealers to designate whether wood is seasoned (20% moisture content or less) or not. And, if its not, the consumer has to be labeled: “This wood does NOT meet air quality regulations for moisture content and must be property dried before burning.†I suspect most folks on this forum will think its just another example of the California nanny state. But providing the consumer with moisture content info I think is a good thing. Most states have Weights & Measures regulations saying wood has to be advertised by the cord and the seller has to provide a receipt with his name, address, volume delivered, etc. I'd like to see more firewood retailers show up to make deliveries with a moisture meter. I'm surprised more consumers don't ask for this, if they don't think they can tell what seasoned wood looks, smells and sounds like. Anyone know of any cities or counties that have done anything in this area?
Thanks,

John
 
John Ackerly said:
I recently saw how the San Fran Bay Area requires firewood dealers to designate whether wood is seasoned (20% moisture content or less) or not. And, if its not, the consumer has to be labeled: “This wood does NOT meet air quality regulations for moisture content and must be property dried before burning.†I suspect most folks on this forum will think its just another example of the California nanny state. But providing the consumer with moisture content info I think is a good thing. Most states have Weights & Measures regulations saying wood has to be advertised by the cord and the seller has to provide a receipt with his name, address, volume delivered, etc. I'd like to see more firewood retailers show up to make deliveries with a moisture meter. I'm surprised more consumers don't ask for this, if they don't think they can tell what seasoned wood looks, smells and sounds like. Anyone know of any cities or counties that have done anything in this area?
Thanks,

John

It is nanny state stupidity because wood can vary widely from piece to piece. People should be in charge of figuring out the moisture content in any wood they purchase unless it's labeled otherwise.
 
Nanny or not, I'm ok with that regulation. At least advises the uneducated that what they are about to do is stupid. Wish I had had that 6 years ago.
 
The people I deal with would just stop selling, too much work for an "on the side" person to deal with. I think more education on the assumption that wood bought needs to be cut, split, and stacked for minimum of 12 months.

I rather see something done about using the term "seasoned" when it's not.
 
No matter. The crooks WILL find a way around the regs.

Best prospect, IMHO, is to educate customers, so they can assess quality/quantity at point-of-sale/delivery.

Who ever said that "seasoned" = <=20%MC. (To me, that's just getting started.)
 
I'd just sell it not-seasoned and put a disclaimer on that all woods needs to be tested to be dry enough before burning.
 
To generate a moisture content value that is repeatable (two qualified people measuring the same wood would get similar values) you need a testing protocol. Before you dismiss this as over-complicated, think about how you would measure. You (wood dealer) have a meter that is off by a few percentage points (reads lower than actual) and you test the outside of a few splits near the top of your heap. I (buyer) have a meter that reads a little high and test some freshly split wood near the bottom. You get 18% i get 28%. Who is right?

I like the concept but it seems impractical. As for it being too difficult for small dealers, what is so difficult about it? Test the wood, post a sign when your wood fails, tell all your customers that nobody meets the standard and it is BS.
 
I wonder if the founding fathers had firewood moisture content regulations come up in discussion when they drafted the constitution.....LOL! I'm all for consumer protection and safety for some stuff (cars, medicine, building codes, etc), but firewood doesn't really scream for this need, IMO.

I get the play on particulates and air quality, but smoke is going to come from poor technique before just as much as, if not more than, wet wood. Maybe they should tag on a provision to have your wood stove operation license/certification a requirement to buy this regulated firewood.
 
CTYank said:
No matter. The crooks WILL find a way around the regs.

Best prospect, IMHO, is to educate customers, so they can assess quality/quantity at point-of-sale/delivery.

Who ever said that "seasoned" = <=20%MC. (To me, that's just getting started.)
Have you ever read the many many articles about firewood on the net, 20% in the norm. And yes many have been written by people who burn wood plus all the posts here on this forum. For the life of me I do not understand why you think wood needs to be 10%, if I burn really dry wood it off gases very quickly and is hard to control.
 
lukem said:
Maybe they should tag on a provision to have your wood stove operation license/certification a requirement to buy this regulated firewood.

I've always thought fuel education was in the shop owners or manufacturers best interest anyway. Unfortunately, after the sale is made on an item that isn't likely to generate any future revenue any time soon for the seller, the education piece gets lost. I've heard the spiel at a number of shops including the one I originally bought from. Seemed like a waste of time when I was listening to it until that first January. Even then, I didn't really get it until I started lurking around here.
 
SolarAndWood said:
lukem said:
Maybe they should tag on a provision to have your wood stove operation license/certification a requirement to buy this regulated firewood.

I've always thought fuel education was in the shop owners or manufacturers best interest anyway. Unfortunately, after the sale is made on an item that isn't likely to generate any future revenue any time soon for the seller, the education piece gets lost. I've heard the spiel at a number of shops including the one I originally bought from. Seemed like a waste of time when I was listening to it until that first January. Even then, I didn't really get it until I started lurking around here.

I completely agree. But I don't think we need a law for it. California has enough to worry about right now. When they get all their other problems solved then they should worry about the moisture content of firewood. And start with a public awareness campaign...not legislation.
 
lukem said:
But I don't think we need a law for it.

I heard ya and completely agree. We have unenforceable wood related laws in NY. In the end, my guess is they just get used by people to complain about their neighbors.
 
John Ackerly said:
Anyone know of any cities or counties that have done anything in this area?
Thanks,

John


I only wish. Its been 2 months - and I cant get a guy from the county to give me hull #s for my boat. (I say 'guy' because there is only ONE guy that does it...thats right - ONE - for the entire county. Apples and oranges, you might say. But I just needed to take a swing at my slacker local gov't. :sick:
 
It sounds a great idea in theory.

But to put it into practice in a country full of lawyers just itching to make a name for themselves, I can see all sorts of problems.

Wood dried to 20% is brilliant, as long as all the wood is cut to exactly the same size, and has all dried at an equal rate.

Something tells me that not all wood dries at the same rate, and wood sellers might find themselves having to keep wood in different piles according to wood type.

And then splitting wood to check the moisture content inside each bit, to make sure they don't fall foul of the law.

My thought is that wood sellers will either just not season any wood at all, and sell it as completely unseasoned.

Or put the prices up as fully seasoning may well mean they have to keep wood back for longer just to comply with the letter of the law.

Or just not bother selling firewood, as it would not be profitable enough as a business....

Be interesting to see how it affects free stuff on craigslist...... ;-)
 
SolarAndWood said:
Nanny or not, I'm ok with that regulation. At least advises the uneducated that what they are about to do is stupid. Wish I had had that 6 years ago.
+1 i wish to bout 4 years ago i got the shaft twice in a row. my first year burning and i got some crappy looking unseasoned wood twice. to many guys out there screwing people.
 
I spent a few more hours researching this, a good late night activity with a glass of bourbon, and found some interesting stuff. First, the one regulation I agree with is to define "seasoned" just like the term "cord" is defined, so when a retailer uses it, the consumer will be more likely to know what it means. This kind of Weights & Measures regulation which have been on the books forever, is helpful and have some impact over time. The crazy thing, when you google the issue, the state that comes up most prominently is Ohio, and they define "seasoned" saying a retailer can only advertise wood as seasoned if its under 50% moisture content! This is absurd and just confuses the public. Sure a lot wood burns better at 15%, but 20% is an accepted definition to have reached being "seasoned" and beyond that its icing on the cake.

The other way to go, which is common in France, Australia and probably other countries, is to have an eco-label where the dealer agrees to disclose moisture level, species, how long ago it was cut and that sort of thing. There are always some consumers who will pay a bit more to get the kind of assurances that those labels offer, and it allows dealers to opt in or not, as they see fit. The good thing about either of these options, is it just helps to create more publicity and awareness, and might hopefully help a few more folks avoid being ripped off.

In the pellet world, there will soon be PFI certified pellets, and it seems manufacturers of pellet stoves will require use of them, to keep the warranty intact. Once that is in place, it will be a much needed fuel standard that will be a huge benefit to consumers.

john
 
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