Englander 25 PDV Problem

[Kevinw]

Hello - I'm new here but have had my stove for 3 seasons.

I was having feed problems and I found a binding problem which I straightened out. I also took the motor off the bottom aguer which runs continuously and swapped it to the top where it runs intermittently figureing that the top motor should be in the best shape of the two because it doesnt work as much. Did I say that right? Anyway, I swapped the motors around from their original positions.

Now the stove doesnt put out as much heat as it did before I made the change. Previously, with the stove set on 6, it would burn about 2 bags of pellets in 24 hours and keep the basement about 80 degrees. Now set on 9 it only burns about 3/4 of one bag and the basement is just under 70.

The settings in the three bottom buttons are 6, 4, and 1.

Any ideas?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Perhaps that former lower auger motor isn't always turning or the auger isn't firmly connected to the upper auger motor and is slipping, something like that.

 

[WoodPorn]

Is it possible you have the lower / upper motor leads reversed? What I mean is is the lower auger moving intermittently?

 

[Kevinw]

Is it possible you have the lower / upper motor leads reversed? What I mean is is the lower auger moving intermittently?

I checked the wiring against the diagram by Englander and its the same. I also put the stove in diagnostic mode and both augers operate as the instructions indicate they should.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Is it possible you have the lower / upper motor leads reversed? What I mean is is the lower auger moving intermittently?

I checked the wiring against the diagram by Englander and its the same. I also put the stove in diagnostic mode and both augers operate as the instructions indicate they should.

If that's the case is there a restriction in the hopper that isn't allowing the correct amount of pellets onto the top auger.

 

[Kevinw]

Is it possible you have the lower / upper motor leads reversed? What I mean is is the lower auger moving intermittently?

I checked the wiring against the diagram by Englander and its the same. I also put the stove in diagnostic mode and both augers operate as the instructions indicate they should.

If that's the case is there a restriction in the hopper that isn't allowing the correct amount of pellets onto the top auger.

No - I just emptied the hopper and checked that. Also gave it a good cleaning while it was off. The only thing that is restricting the pellet flow is the adjustable plate which I haven't touched.

Just started the stove, running it wide open and have very little flame and you can hold your hand in front of where the hot air comes out, which you couldnt do before - it would burn you.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

When you verified that the top auger was running correctly were there pellets in the stove?

If that top auger is not securely attached to the motor the motor can turn and not deliver pellets.

When there are no pellets in the hopper the auger might even turn then when pellets are loaded the auger slips.

Also when you put things back together did you perform the auger alignment?

 

[Kevinw]

When you verified that the top auger was running correctly were there pellets in the stove?

If that top auger is not securely attached to the motor the motor can turn and not deliver pellets.

When there are no pellets in the hopper the auger might even turn then when pellets are loaded the auger slips.

Also when you put things back together did you perform the auger alignment?

Took it apart again, the top auger is securely attached to the motor and it is moving pellets to the bottom auger and the bottom auger is moving pellets to the burn pot.

The thing is just not burning like it was. Maybe I will take a video of the fire and send it to Englander. The fire just doesnt seem to burn the way it should. When new pellets come to the burn pot, the fire dies down.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

When working on the stove did you get anywhere close to the control panel and is that stove capable of operating in high low mode on a thermostat?

Just trying to rule out a possible loose jumper being removed and leaving the stove to fire in maintenance burn mode.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

whoa, i'm going through the exact same problem right now with my brothers PDV. the bottom auger motor was weak and making a grinding noise, so i pulled it out, cleaned it up, added grease to the gearbox and swapped it with the top motor.

same result! on 9-9 the stove burns like it did on 2-2.

first off, for some reason when i worked on the stove, the program on the control board reverted to program A. I had to change it back to C. to check this, unplug the stove when its cold and off. plug it back in. then very quicky hold the blower up and blower down buttons for a few seconds. then let go. you will see a letter. this letter on the pdv should be the letter c. you can use the blower up and down buttons to change it. after you do, verify the change held by repeating the process. just to be sure.

that remedied part of the problem. so the burn is better but the motor is still giving problems like being easily jammed and noisy. i have a replacement motor on order. i think that should fix it once and for all.

 

[Kevinw]

When working on the stove did you get anywhere close to the control panel and is that stove capable of operating in high low mode on a thermostat?

Just trying to rule out a possible loose jumper being removed and leaving the stove to fire in maintenance burn mode.

I dont believe that I knocked anything loose on the control board. I am pretty careful around that kind of thing.

I have no idea on the thermostat question. I dont use a remote thermostat

 

[Kevinw]

whoa, i'm going through the exact same problem right now with my brothers PDV. the bottom auger motor was weak and making a grinding noise, so i pulled it out, cleaned it up, added grease to the gearbox and swapped it with the top motor.

same result! on 9-9 the stove burns like it did on 2-2.

first off, for some reason when i worked on the stove, the program on the control board reverted to program A. I had to change it back to C. to check this, unplug the stove when its cold and off. plug it back in. then very quicky hold the blower up and blower down buttons for a few seconds. then let go. you will see a letter. this letter on the pdv should be the letter c. you can use the blower up and down buttons to change it. after you do, verify the change held by repeating the process. just to be sure.

that remedied part of the problem. so the burn is better but the motor is still giving problems like being easily jammed and noisy. i have a replacement motor on order. i think that should fix it once and for all.

This is the first I have heard of the A versus C thing. I will check that, thanks.

I did confirm that the auger motor is junk - works intermittently, jams up. I removed the armature and it is very well worn and scored.. Getting a new one today.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

There are 4 burn modes on the controllers that England uses. A,B,C,D depends upon a number of factors as to which mode the controller should be in for your specific stove.

I suspect that your new motor will be just what that stove needs.

 

[Kevinw]

There are 4 burn modes on the controllers that England uses. A,B,C,D depends upon a number of factors as to which mode the controller should be in for your specific stove.

I suspect that your new motor will be just what that stove needs.

What do you know about motors? I dont really want to buy one from englander at $130. There is talk on here of other motors but when I look at them their rotation is wrong. They turn clockwise when facing the output shaft and mine turns counter clockwise

 

[little_hawk_59]

the motors are shaded pole motors so you would take the magnet off and flip so that the part that was facing the case now becomes the back and that will change the direction that the motor will turn the shaft

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

the motors are shaded pole motors so you would take the magnet off and flip so that the part that was facing the case now becomes the back and that will change the direction that the motor will turn the shaft

The motors are c-frame and if you flip the fields they will turn in the opposite direction.

A picture is worth a thousand or so words so here you go:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/738333/

Match the rotation speed and your good to go.

 

[Kevinw]

whoa, i'm going through the exact same problem right now with my brothers PDV. the bottom auger motor was weak and making a grinding noise, so i pulled it out, cleaned it up, added grease to the gearbox and swapped it with the top motor.

same result! on 9-9 the stove burns like it did on 2-2.

first off, for some reason when i worked on the stove, the program on the control board reverted to program A. I had to change it back to C. to check this, unplug the stove when its cold and off. plug it back in. then very quicky hold the blower up and blower down buttons for a few seconds. then let go. you will see a letter. this letter on the pdv should be the letter c. you can use the blower up and down buttons to change it. after you do, verify the change held by repeating the process. just to be sure.

that remedied part of the problem. so the burn is better but the motor is still giving problems like being easily jammed and noisy. i have a replacement motor on order. i think that should fix it once and for all.

This is the first I have heard of the A versus C thing. I will check that, thanks.

I did confirm that the auger motor is junk - works intermittently, jams up. I removed the armature and it is very well worn and scored.. Getting a new one today.

You were right, it was in mode A. I changed it to C as you described. I went to Grainger today and got a Dayton motor for $90.00 , reversed the rotation and installed it. We'll see what happens. The new motor has a fan on it which I think cant hurt with the heat these things work under.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

i had a strong feeling the program reverted. for some reason whenever i work on my bro's pdv or my pdvc the program changes. and it lands on a different program every time!
i always unplug them to do work, and i keep them on a good UPS. i'm not a tool clutz either as i own a pc repair company so i'm not bumping stuff and causing the stove mayhem.


how bizarre.

still waiting for my replacement motor to come in. i bought one from gleason - avery as a tester. if i'm happy with it i'll change both pdv motors to gleasons.

my pdvc still has its original motors tho, and its running strong, silent and its been jam-less for years. i'm not messing with something that isnt broken

 

[Kevinw]

i had a strong feeling the program reverted. for some reason whenever i work on my bro's pdv or my pdvc the program changes. and it lands on a different program every time!
i always unplug them to do work, and i keep them on a good UPS. i'm not a tool clutz either as i own a pc repair company so i'm not bumping stuff and causing the stove mayhem.


how bizarre.

still waiting for my replacement motor to come in. i bought one from gleason - avery as a tester. if i'm happy with it i'll change both pdv motors to gleasons.

my pdvc still has its original motors tho, and its running strong, silent and its been jam-less for years. i'm not messing with something that isnt broken

FIRE IN THE HOLE!!
The new motor installed and the program set to C and I have more heat than I can use!

Thanks to all that took the time to post to my problem.

 

[imacman]

FIRE IN THE HOLE!!
The new motor installed and the program set to C and I have more heat than I can use!

Thanks to all that took the time to post to my problem.

Glad to hear you got it fixed. Now you have plenty of heat, and learned a few things about your stove to boot!

BTW, in the future, another great place to get auger motors is Gleason-Avery....stronger motor, better bearings, and cheaper.

www.gleasonavery.com/catalog/pellet-corn-stove-motors.html

 

[natnyer]

This one works pretty good too.http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Stove-Auger-Whitfield-Merkle-Korff/dp/B0032D26I6/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

 

[Dr.Faustus]

gleason-avery motor came in today. 25 minutes later it was in, wired, fields flipped so it rotates the right way.

stoves burnin like nobodys business again :=D

its a quiet motor for sure, plenty strong and seems well built. someone posted a pic of a gleason with a big fat gasket in between the gearcase. mine doesnt seem to have that but it has all the other good points featured in the pictorial like the sealed bearings and rivets etc...


i'll be ordering 2 more to have them on hand. one is going in the PDV so it'll have 2 new GA motors and the other i'll keep as a spare for my pdvc.

great motors except be prepared to know how to flip the fields to reverse its direction and also this comes with 2 wire leads, not spade connectors. you'll need spade connectors to crimp on to the wire leads or twist, solder and tape. i recommend the spades for ease of removal in the future.

 

[Kevinw]

gleason-avery motor came in today. 25 minutes later it was in, wired, fields flipped so it rotates the right way.

stoves burnin like nobodys business again :=D

its a quiet motor for sure, plenty strong and seems well built. someone posted a pic of a gleason with a big fat gasket in between the gearcase. mine doesnt seem to have that but it has all the other good points featured in the pictorial like the sealed bearings and rivets etc...


i'll be ordering 2 more to have them on hand. one is going in the PDV so it'll have 2 new GA motors and the other i'll keep as a spare for my pdvc.

great motors except be prepared to know how to flip the fields to reverse its direction and also this comes with 2 wire leads, not spade connectors. you'll need spade connectors to crimp on to the wire leads or twist, solder and tape. i recommend the spades for ease of removal in the future.

Where did you get the motor and what was the price?

 

[Dr.Faustus]

i got it from gleason avery's website for $102 after you factor in shipping. i picked it from a tip i got reading another thread.