Englander 28-3500 for 1200 SF ranch?

[Badfish740]

Hey everyone-I was at Home Depot the other day and took a gander at the stoves. I had put the idea of stove off for a while after buying the new house because of the cost of building a hearth (and because our living room is a little on the small side as it is), etc... I like the idea of the Englander add-on (I have forced air oil heat) though. I have a lot of questions as far as installation though because I want to be sure that I'm not missing any major cost/design/install issues. First is the cost of the stove itself. Online it's listed for $1600 and in the store the price was $1300. In searching old posts from as late as April 2007 I read of folks who had picked this stove up for $400 (half off), so I guess demand has risen quite a bit since then. Should I maybe wait for the price to come down? What time of year does this typically happen? I would imagine that most people who are going to install a stove have done it by February-should the price have dropped by then if its going to?

Next, as mentioned, my home is a 1200 SF ranch with forced air heat. I have a "fan only" option on my oil furnace, so I intend to use this to circulate hot air from the stove through the house. The stove itself says its rated for 3000 SF-is there any reason for concern that the stove might actually be too big for my home? I'm hoping that the layout of the basement will be conducive to installing the stove. There happens to be a window very close to the furnace itself, so I'm hoping that I can place the stove directly below the window, running the chimney out of there via a 90 degree elbow. I was going to buy the Duravent kit from Home Depot for running the pipe through the wall, etc... The window is rectangular, so I was thinking of simply blocking it up around the thimble with masonry-should this be acceptable as far as code? The hot air duct should be easy to connect to the furnace, but just to clarify-the plenum is the duct work that sits directly on top of the furnace correct? The chimney itself is the next issue. The window where I intend to bring the chimney out happens to be right next to the masonry chimney for the oil burner. If I run the wood burner chimney right next to it, does it need to be higher than the masonry chimney or can it be the same height? Is there any good reason NOT to run the wood burner chimney right next to the oil burner chimney? The two chimneys would sit about 18-20" apart.

Now-how about coal? I understand that Englander used to advertise this stove as a coal/wood unit but discontinued that advertisement due to folks thinking they could burn coal alone in it. I realize that the stove is meant to handle a small amount of coal once a good bed of hot wood coals has been established. However, in one of "Englander Mike's" posts he mentioned that the stove is meant to handle about 10lbs of soft (bituminous) coal. Would it be dangerous to try a smaller amount (5-8lbs?) of anthracite? Living in Northwest New Jersey I have easy access to anthracite, so I would prefer to burn it, but if I were only going once a season or so I wouldn't mind going further to pick up a few tons of bituminous. However, I do have about half a ton of anthracite that I got for free from an old house that was set to be demolished. My father and I had obtained permission to salvage some moldings and architectural stuff when we came across the pile in the basement. I loaded it in my truck and brought it home and it's been sitting in my backyard ever since. I'm grateful for any advice anyone can give me on this because the sooner I can stop burning oil the better!

 

[buzcranne]

It doesn't address your main question, but I found the online price of Englander stoves at Home Depot to be higher than the in-store price as well. I believe it's because the online price includes shipping.

Any chance you saw an Englander 30 at your HD? I'm looking.

 

[Badfish740]

Any chance you saw an Englander 30 at your HD? I'm looking.

Actually yes-I remember seeing that particular stove along with a smaller model. This is the Home Depot just off of Route 31 North in Flemington, NJ. I just thought of an additional question-since I live in New Jersey, the land where everything is regulated to the hilt, do I need to worry about whether my stove has a catalytic converter, EPA regs, etc...? I mean, I assume that since the stove is SOLD in New Jersey that it can be USED in New Jersey, but one can never safely assume I guess...

 

[buzcranne]

Others here certainly have more experience than I do, but... Don't assume anything. I would not be surprised if you technically need permits and inspections, which would probably mean EPA stoves are the only option (EPA stove is a good idea anyway, for efficiency reasons if nothing else).

Thanks for the HD tip (and not yelling at me for hijacking your thread).

If you want a stove for this winter, I suggest you buy whatever is available quickly. If you're not in a hurry, prices (and selection) will almost certainly be better in teh Spring. Best of luck.

 

[Badfish740]

Others here certainly have more experience than I do, but... Don't assume anything. I would not be surprised if you technically need permits and inspections, which would probably mean EPA stoves are the only option (EPA stove is a good idea anyway, for efficiency reasons if nothing else).

Hmmm...I can't seem to find any information on the Englander website about EPA certification-can anyone comment? I guess I would LIKE to do the install on the up and up because God forbid something happened I'd want the insurance company to back me up, but...

Thanks for the HD tip (and not yelling at me for hijacking your thread).

If you want a stove for this winter, I suggest you buy whatever is available quickly. If you're not in a hurry, prices (and selection) will almost certainly be better in teh Spring. Best of luck.

No problem, glad to help out. I think we are going to wait until next winter. Right now I'm just stockpiling wood and weighing all of the options. I have about 110 gallons of oil in the tank (it came with the house ) that I'm going to stretch as far as I can this winter. We both like it cool most of the time anyway are just as happy to sit on the couch with a blanket while we watch TV/pile on the down blankets at night with the house at 62 degrees. Next winter we may keep the house at a toasty 68!

 

[buzcranne]

Hmmm...I can't seem to find any information on the Englander website about EPA certification-can anyone comment?

The one I'm shopping for says "EPA Certified" on the Englander web site: http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html

Since the one you're looking for does not, perhaps it isn't. But, like I said, don't take my word on how mandatory that is.

Also, thanks very much on the HD thing. They had 4 of my stoves in stock and one is being sent from the Flemington store to my local store for me. This is a big deal for me. Woohoo!

 

[Badfish740]

Hmmm...I can't seem to find any information on the Englander website about EPA certification-can anyone comment?

The one I'm shopping for says "EPA Certified" on the Englander web site: http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html

Since the one you're looking for does not, perhaps it isn't. But, like I said, don't take my word on how mandatory that is.

Also, thanks very much on the HD thing. They had 4 of my stoves in stock and one is being sent from the Flemington store to my local store for me. This is a big deal for me. Woohoo!

I'm guessing its not in that case-any New Jersey woodburners care to weigh in on this? I live in High Bridge, Hunterdon County. I haven't really dealt with the town in regards to permits and whatnot, but I do know that any shed over 100 SF requires a permit

 

[BrotherBart]

The 28-3500 is not EPA certified for clean burning. Lots of people have them and when run hot with good dry wood they seem to do fine but they are not reburn stoves. If they were there would be one in my basement.

The clearance sales come along in late January February. But don't count on it this year since everybody seems to be selling everything that they can make. And when the sales hit it is usually a matter of a day or so before whatever is left is gone.

 

[Badfish740]

The 28-3500 is not EPA certified for clean burning. Lots of people have them and when run hot with good dry wood they seem to do fine but they are not reburn stoves. If they were there would be one in my basement.

I guess what I need to ask at this point is "what does this mean to me?" Bart-you mention that if the 28-3500 were EPA approved it WOULD be in your basement. Are you saying that your locale wouldn't allow you to install it because it's not certified, or is it that you simply decided against it because it's not as efficient? If it's just a matter of efficiency does that mean that I would be burning insane amounts of wood through the season? If so, would regular use of coal make it any more or less efficient?

 

[BrotherBart]

Efficiency and not liking smoke coming out of my chimney or gunking it up. As to coal if I was going to burn coal I would get a stove designed to burn coal. There has to be a reason that ESW stopped recommending the burning of coal in that furnace.

Give'em a call and ask'em.

 

[Badfish740]

Efficiency and not liking smoke coming out of my chimney or gunking it up.

Gotcha-so basically a non-EPA approved stove means more smoke, more chimney buildup, and more wood needed. Two questions in this regard: First, how much smoke are we talking? My neighbor on the chimney side of the house is about 20 feet away-would the smoke be a bother to them? Could I remedy this with a higher chimney? Next, given that my chimney would be "dirtier," what would this mean for cleaning? How often should a non-EPA stove chimney be swept?

As to coal if I was going to burn coal I would get a stove designed to burn coal. There has to be a reason that ESW stopped recommending the burning of coal in that furnace.

I know what you mean, but I actually found this quote from "Englander Mike:"

we used to list it as a wood/coal furnace , basically meaning that some coal could be added to an existing wood fir to extend the burn time. we ended up with a lot of misunderstanding that coal could be burned alone in the unit (thinking wood OR coal, not wood AND coal) which is not the case. the unit can accept a small addition of soft coal added to an existing fire , gives a couple hours to the end of the burn cycle. but you cannot burn just coal in this unit , it does not have a shaker and with that large a firebox, filled with coal would melt a hole in the basement floor. about 10 lbs is about all you would want to go. add it once wood is through the initial char stage. then before the next charge of wood is added rake down the coal bed , add the wood, char and add the coal again if desired.

I think I will give them a buzz on my lunchbreak though.

 

[InTheRockies]

Badfish,

Check with your county. They will be able to tell you whether you can legally install a non-EPA certified stove/furnace. Truthfully, I would recommend only looking at EPA-approved stoves/furnaces because it's only a matter of time before there's a mandate that all stoves be certified. New regulations reducing the amount of particulate matter allowed in the air went in to effect (last year, I think). Very few jurisdictions were in compliance with the old standards; most won't be in compliance with the new standards. Only so much can be done to try to come in compliance with regulating vehicle emissions. I expect to see more and more jurisdictions begin to regulate home heating systems, especially wood burners. While there have been community-by-community cash incentive programs to encourage people to come into compliance in areas that impose bans on non-EPA stoves, I'm not sure those type of programs will continue as the number of communities that impose bans expands (especially in this economic climate).

 

[begreen]

It's just my opinion, but I think that this would be serious overkill in southern NJ in a 1200 sq ft house unless the fire is tended frequently and carefully. I suspect you might experience a hard time keeping even, comfortable temps with this setup. A wood fired hot air furnace is not like a wood-fired boiler. There is no heat storage to buffer and then release the heat over time. If you want to use this furnace in a small house, maybe invest in a large rock storage area as a heat dump, to achieve more even temps.

Moving the thread to the boiler room so that you can get more feedback from folks that are using wood-fired furnaces.