Englander 30-NCH Learning Curve

[leeave96]

Fired off the Englander 30 last night to burn off some paint smell and this morning started a fire from cold to give me a chance to get some learning time on the stove while we got a cooler weekend. For reference, I am also burning my Woodstock Keystone - which is a cat stove vs the Englander secondary burn type.

It took a while to get the firebox up to temperature from a cold start. The goal was to run the stove only hot enough to give me no smoke out the chimney. I'm use to the Keystone's cat lighting off with a 200-250ish stove top temp and the instant I engage the cat - zero smoke. The Englander takes more time. 400 degrees, smoke and really no secondaries. Played with the damper settings knowing that without secondaries of some sort, there would be smoke out the chimney. I opened and closed down the damper in varying stages just to see if I could ignite the secondaries at a lower temperature or get the stove top over 500 degrees and at what damper settings. Even with some secondaries, there was smoke coming out the chimney. Again, the Keystone, once engage the cat - zero smoke - almost like a switch.

I finally got the secondaries to kick-in a bit more intense and walked out and zero smoke coming out the chimney. This was with the spring on the damper control flush with the door ash tray lip. However, with this setting (I am at 500 degrees with a 280 stack temp) I got a goodly amout of flame off the wood. I want to dampen it down some to see what happens. I close the damper all the way, the flames die down, I get some strong secondaries that last for a few minutes then die out and smoke out the chimney returns and my stove top temps fall to about 400 degrees. So back out to flush with the door ash lip and the smoke again dies off as the flames kick in again and the secondaries light off.

What I am trying to do is find the minimum settings vs sending the stove over 700 degrees plus stove top. I know that when I get hotter temps, smoke ain't no problem - I'm just trying to find the lowest set it and forget it temps for when it's time to hit the sack or off to work in the morning for now.

More later!

Oh, all the while I'm tinkering with the Englander, the Keystone is cruzing at 450 degrees with no flames and no smoke out the chimney. This is/has been going on for hours on a bed of coals and two splits!

Bill

 

[BrowningBAR]

Fired off the Englander 30 last night to burn off some paint smell and this morning started a fire from cold to give me a chance to get some learning time on the stove while we got a cooler weekend. For reference, I am also burning my Woodstock Keystone - which is a cat stove vs the Englander secondary burn type.

It took a while to get the firebox up to temperature from a cold start. The goal was to run the stove only hot enough to give me no smoke out the chimney. I'm use to the Keystone's cat lighting off with a 200-250ish stove top temp and the instant I engage the cat - zero smoke. The Englander takes more time. 400 degrees, smoke and really no secondaries. Played with the damper settings knowing that without secondaries of some sort, there would be smoke out the chimney. I opened and closed down the damper in varying stages just to see if I could ignite the secondaries at a lower temperature or get the stove top over 500 degrees and at what damper settings. Even with some secondaries, there was smoke coming out the chimney. Again, the Keystone, once engage the cat - zero smoke - almost like a switch.

I finally got the secondaries to kick-in a bit more intense and walked out and zero smoke coming out the chimney. This was with the spring on the damper control flush with the door ash tray lip. However, with this setting (I am at 500 degrees with a 280 stack temp) I got a goodly amout of flame off the wood. I want to dampen it down some to see what happens. I close the damper all the way, the flames die down, I get some strong secondaries that last for a few minutes then die out and smoke out the chimney returns and my stove top temps fall to about 400 degrees. So back out to flush with the door ash lip and the smoke again dies off as the flames kick in again and the secondaries light off.

What I am trying to do is find the minimum settings vs sending the stove over 700 degrees plus stove top. I know that when I get hotter temps, smoke ain't no problem - I'm just trying to find the lowest set it and forget it temps for when it's time to hit the sack or off to work in the morning for now.

More later!

Oh, all the while I'm tinkering with the Englander, the Keystone is cruzing at 450 degrees with no flames and no smoke out the chimney. This is/has been going on for hours on a bed of coals and two splits!

Bill

I am very interested in this as I will be aiming for the same results (lowest temperature and cleanest burn). Keep in mind, you are comparing a stove that you already know how to operate with a stove that is new to you. So, more tinkering will be needed.

 

[rottiman]

Found that the temps outside haven't been cold enough yet to get a true picture of how the 30 needs to be set to get max results re clean burn. It was down to the low 30's here this a.m. and that made a noteable difference in how it has performed so far. One thing I can already see is that this EPA stove is a whole different ball game as opposed to the Regency it replaced. Waitin for some truly cold weather to learn how to get the best performance out of er'

 

[leeave96]

I went out for a goodly bit today and when I came back, the stove was at 300 degrees stove top and there was a thick bed of large coals - about 2-1/2 inches.

I raked them to the front, opened the damper and loaded two rows of splits, north/south - one row across the bottom and the second across the top of the first. It brought me almost even with the top of the fire bricks.

The splits quickly caught fire and in over a 30ish minute period I reduced the damper while trying to acheive 500 degree stove top and secondaries to snuff out any smoke from the chimney. Again, I got no smoke with the damper flush with the door ash tray and when I tried to shut the damper down all the way, the flames died and shortly after, so did the secondaries and smoke returned to the chimney.

I opened the damper back to flush with the door ash tray and enough flames and secondaries returned to rid the chimney of smoke.

Now I need to work the damper between the two settings. I'll do that on another reload. Right now, the stove is cruising at 540ish with the stove pipe temp at 300 degrees (about 18 inches above the stove top).

This stove really holds a lot of wood - easily twice what the Keystone does. I can see myself burning through a cord of wood or two with this beast!

I attached a pic of one of the more intense moments of the burn.

Bill

 

[BrowningBAR]

I went out for a goodly bit today and when I came back, the stove was at 300 degrees stove top and there was a thick bed of large coals - about 2-1/2 inches.

I raked them to the front, opened the damper and loaded two rows of splits, north/south - one row across the bottom and the second across the top of the first. It brought me almost even with the top of the fire bricks.

The splits quickly caught fire and in over a 30ish minute period I reduced the damper while trying to acheive 500 degree stove top and secondaries to snuff out any smoke from the chimney. Again, I got no smoke with the damper flush with the door ash tray and when I tried to shut the damper down all the way, the flames died and shortly after, so did the secondaries and smoke returned to the chimney.

I opened the damper back to flush with the door ash tray and enough flames and secondaries returned to rid the chimney of smoke.

Now I need to work the damper between the two settings. I'll do that on another reload. Right now, the stove is cruising at 540ish with the stove pipe temp at 300 degrees (about 18 inches above the stove top).

This stove really holds a lot of wood - easily twice what the Keystone does. I can see myself burning through a cord of wood or two with this beast!

Bill

How quickly are you adjusting the damper? With the heritage I do it in stages. Are you shutting the damper down quickly or are you slowly adjusting it to the "all the way" position?

 

[leeave96]

I'm adjusting the damper slowly. From flush with the door ash tray to fully closed is only about 1/2 to maybe 3/4 inches.

Bill

 

[Todd]

I think your going to find out that this stove just like most other non cats likes to burn hot, just the way they are designed. Once you establish a good coal bed you can probably regulate the output by the amount of wood in the box better than trying to run it like a cat stove with the air setting.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I think your going to find out that this stove just like most other non cats likes to burn hot, just the way they are designed. Once you establish a good coal bed you can probably regulate the output by the amount of wood in the box better than trying to run it like a cat stove with the air setting.

That has been my experience.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I'm adjusting the damper slowly. From flush with the door ash tray to fully closed is only about 1/2 to maybe 3/4 inches.

Bill

Not much wiggle room.

 

[DexterDay]

I was also told about the Spring being even with the ash lip. I leave it there after a reload for a little bit. But if I kept it there, The stove quickly wants to reach 800-900* (already happened). I slowly work it in, to about 1/4"-1/2" from closed all the way. She needs to get Hot before shutting it down. The hotter it gets, the better the draft, the more air is pulled into the secondaries and zipper.

The secondaries at that air setting, with the stove top of 600 or better, come rolling into the glass really hard and fast... Rolling down to the bottom of the glass..

Whats your chimney set-up?? How High? Insulated/Internal/Chase??

Last 2 nights have been the best for burning... The colder it gets, the better it works.

Had well over a dozen fires in mine, with mant reloads.. Had it burning for the last 2 days straight now.. I am in no way an expert, nor do I claim to have the knowledge of BB or Pen, when it comes to the 30..

But the air set to where you are describing, is alot. Once you add in the air from the secondaries and the front "Zipper", is what BB refers to it as.. I like to place my Largest split, right in front of that Zipper and have it as close to it as possible.. Seems like that gives me the best burn, for the secondaries, because the air is shooting right into the wood, super heating it in that one area. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I am pretty sure that having a split closer to that air, creates a better fire.

I am a newbie to the stove also. Just sharing with what I found works. Everyones set-up is different (Chimney, Pipe, Cap, Straight-up or couple of 90*'s, Internal appliances, Outside temp/pressure, etc)... One thing thats for sure, There is going to be a Tremendous amount of information on the 30-NC here... One of the most popular stoves on Hearth (Besides a Woodstock/lots of users/hope they had fun this weekend at the Open House)

 

[BrowningBAR]

I was also told about the Spring being even with the ash lip. I leave it there after a reload for a little bit. But if I kept it there, The stove quickly wants to reach 800-900* (already happened). I slowly work it in, to about 1/4"-1/2" from closed all the way. She needs to get Hot before shutting it down. The hotter it gets, the better the draft, the more air is pulled into the secondaries and zipper.

The secondaries at that air setting, with the stove top of 600 or better, come rolling into the glass really hard and fast... Rolling down to the bottom of the glass..

Whats your chimney set-up?? How High? Insulated/Internal/Chase??

Last 2 nights have been the best for burning... The colder it gets, the better it works.

Had well over a dozen fires in mine, with mant reloads.. Had it burning for the last 2 days straight now.. I am in no way an expert, nor do I claim to have the knowledge of BB or Pen, when it comes to the 30..

But the air set to where you are describing, is alot. Once you add in the air from the secondaries and the front "Zipper", is what BB refers to it as.. I like to place my Largest split, right in front of that Zipper and have it as close to it as possible.. Seems like that gives me the best burn, for the secondaries, because the air is shooting right into the wood, super heating it in that one area. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I am pretty sure that having a split closer to that air, creates a better fire.

I am a newbie to the stove also. Just sharing with what I found works. Everyones set-up is different (Chimney, Pipe, Cap, Straight-up or couple of 90*'s, Internal appliances, Outside temp/pressure, etc)... One thing thats for sure, There is going to be a Tremendous amount of information on the 30-NC here... One of the most popular stoves on Hearth (Besides a Woodstock/lots of users/hope they had fun this weekend at the Open House)

Last year it seemed like the everyone owned a Blaze King. This year it will probably be the 30. Next year might be the Woodstock AwfulName.

 

[GAMMA RAY]

I was also told about the Spring being even with the ash lip. I leave it there after a reload for a little bit. But if I kept it there, The stove quickly wants to reach 800-900* (already happened). I slowly work it in, to about 1/4"-1/2" from closed all the way. She needs to get Hot before shutting it down. The hotter it gets, the better the draft, the more air is pulled into the secondaries and zipper.

The secondaries at that air setting, with the stove top of 600 or better, come rolling into the glass really hard and fast... Rolling down to the bottom of the glass..

Whats your chimney set-up?? How High? Insulated/Internal/Chase??

Last 2 nights have been the best for burning... The colder it gets, the better it works.

Had well over a dozen fires in mine, with mant reloads.. Had it burning for the last 2 days straight now.. I am in no way an expert, nor do I claim to have the knowledge of BB or Pen, when it comes to the 30..

But the air set to where you are describing, is alot. Once you add in the air from the secondaries and the front "Zipper", is what BB refers to it as.. I like to place my Largest split, right in front of that Zipper and have it as close to it as possible.. Seems like that gives me the best burn, for the secondaries, because the air is shooting right into the wood, super heating it in that one area. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I am pretty sure that having a split closer to that air, creates a better fire.

I am a newbie to the stove also. Just sharing with what I found works. Everyones set-up is different (Chimney, Pipe, Cap, Straight-up or couple of 90*'s, Internal appliances, Outside temp/pressure, etc)... One thing thats for sure, There is going to be a Tremendous amount of information on the 30-NC here... One of the most popular stoves on Hearth (Besides a Woodstock/lots of users/hope they had fun this weekend at the Open House)

Dexter, I am trying to take in as much info as I can before we start the 30. Are you loading n/s? And are using the blower?
Just wondering. I am so used to the 13. I would load n/s then e/w on top. I am just anxious and curious to get "Beulah" lit.

 

[DexterDay]

I was also told about the Spring being even with the ash lip. I leave it there after a reload for a little bit. But if I kept it there, The stove quickly wants to reach 800-900* (already happened). I slowly work it in, to about 1/4"-1/2" from closed all the way. She needs to get Hot before shutting it down. The hotter it gets, the better the draft, the more air is pulled into the secondaries and zipper.

The secondaries at that air setting, with the stove top of 600 or better, come rolling into the glass really hard and fast... Rolling down to the bottom of the glass..

Whats your chimney set-up?? How High? Insulated/Internal/Chase??

Last 2 nights have been the best for burning... The colder it gets, the better it works.

Had well over a dozen fires in mine, with mant reloads.. Had it burning for the last 2 days straight now.. I am in no way an expert, nor do I claim to have the knowledge of BB or Pen, when it comes to the 30..

But the air set to where you are describing, is alot. Once you add in the air from the secondaries and the front "Zipper", is what BB refers to it as.. I like to place my Largest split, right in front of that Zipper and have it as close to it as possible.. Seems like that gives me the best burn, for the secondaries, because the air is shooting right into the wood, super heating it in that one area. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I am pretty sure that having a split closer to that air, creates a better fire.

I am a newbie to the stove also. Just sharing with what I found works. Everyones set-up is different (Chimney, Pipe, Cap, Straight-up or couple of 90*'s, Internal appliances, Outside temp/pressure, etc)... One thing thats for sure, There is going to be a Tremendous amount of information on the 30-NC here... One of the most popular stoves on Hearth (Besides a Woodstock/lots of users/hope they had fun this weekend at the Open House)

Dexter, I am trying to take in as much info as I can before we start the 30. Are you loading n/s? And are using the blower?
Just wondering. I am so used to the 13. I would load n/s then e/w on top. I am just anxious and curious to get "Beulah" lit.

N/S only (to easy ) and no blower. I was holding off, to see if I really needed it...
Already burning the little sister/brother to the 30. You are ahead of the game. IMO. There will still be some learning needed, but not as much as say, me for example (No woodstove, just pellets and a fireplace for yrs)

The N/S loading is the way to go with this stove. Holds a ton of wood too... Almost literally....

 

[GAMMA RAY]

Thanks Dexter, I am glad we are all in this new "30 thang" together so we can help each other.
I became a "champ" at the 13...operated it better than Mr Gamma....IMHO.... :cheese:
BB told me, "make sure to leave the blower off when the stove is coming up to operating temp so it does not cool the firebox during startup..."
Words of wisdom from the big guy.... ;-)

 

[BrotherBart]

If you guys want to have some fun with those 30s shove some coals into a line front to back in the center of the firebox. Then place two splits N/S with two or three inches of space between them and one N/S on top of them creating a tunnel through the middle to the back of the stove. Do it where the air coming out of the little doghouse in the front is blowing right through the tunnel. Don't push the splits against the back wall of the stove. Leave an inch or to of space back there.

In a short while you will have quite a show when the gases start coming out of the back of the tunnel and rolling up to the baffle and igniting.

 

[DexterDay]

O.K.... Please excuse the video quality and my "Creepy" (Wow, had a few last night) sounding voice.. Just uploaded my 1st thing to YouTube (I know, get with the times, right?). Here is a Vid of the 30-NC last night.. Air is closed to about 1/4"-1/2" here. I get it going pretty good. VClose it down to under the air setting you werte talking about (Ash Lip). Then I shut it all the way and pull it out about a 1/2", give or take..

Like stated earlier. It has to run pretty hot to fire off secondaries.. Once they get going, you off to the races. The stove top here was prob around 650*.. My next Video, I will make sure to put all 3 Thermometers I have on the stove, in the video...

Again, voice sounds way Creepy at the End. Otherwise, all you hear is my sump pump (Water pouring into kettle)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AWwo2GyKcM

 

[BrowningBAR]

O.K.... Please excuse the video quality and my "Creepy" (Wow, had a few last night) sounding voice.. Just uploaded my 1st thing to YouTube (I know, get with the times, right?). Here is a Vid of the 30-NC last night.. Air is closed to about 1/4"-1/2" here. I get it going pretty good. VClose it down to under the air setting you werte talking about (Ash Lip). Then I shut it all the way and pull it out about a 1/2", give or take..

Like stated earlier. It has to run pretty hot to fire off secondaries.. Once they get going, you off to the races. The stove top here was prob around 650*.. My next Video, I will make sure to put all 3 Thermometers I have on the stove, in the video...

Again, voice sounds way Creepy at the End. Otherwise, all you hear is my sump pump (Water pouring into kettle)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AWwo2GyKcM

 

[DexterDay]

O.K.... Please excuse the video quality and my "Creepy" (Wow, had a few last night) sounding voice.. Just uploaded my 1st thing to YouTube (I know, get with the times, right?). Here is a Vid of the 30-NC last night.. Air is closed to about 1/4"-1/2" here. I get it going pretty good. VClose it down to under the air setting you werte talking about (Ash Lip). Then I shut it all the way and pull it out about a 1/2", give or take..

Like stated earlier. It has to run pretty hot to fire off secondaries.. Once they get going, you off to the races. The stove top here was prob around 650*.. My next Video, I will make sure to put all 3 Thermometers I have on the stove, in the video...

Again, voice sounds way Creepy at the End. Otherwise, all you hear is my sump pump (Water pouring into kettle)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AWwo2GyKcM

Right. I have to put another video up soon. Just to clear my name. I was sitting here bored and have been wanting to start an account.. Pretty easy. Especially if you have a google account. .

"French Fries and Mustard, umhmmm"...... LOL

I need not record any videos after a few (a lot) drinks.

 

[leeave96]

I think it's going to be cool enough tonight to have another burn in the 30. I've got the stove set-up with the legs (came with the pedestal) and my family seems to like the way it looks.

I am burning N/S with this stove and one thing I noticed is how intense the air from the zipper is on the end of the splits. It really burns a hole through that center piece like a torch while the pieces to each side of it burn at a slower rate - front to back.

Tonight I am going to put a couple of magnets over the zipper air supply inlets under the stove above the front legs and see how that works for spreading out the air flow coming down to the front of the stove and resulting burn. Hopefully it will be more even - not that it matters, just want to give it a try.

Bill

 

[DexterDay]

In my thinking.... I imagine that the little Zipper (dog house) up front, does make the load burn down faster. But I also noticed if a split is right in front of it, that it gets red hot, eats a hole in the wood, but creates much better secondaries.

While having splits not sitting in front makes for a longer fire, and secondariez that are good, just not as good. That super heated spot helps keep the temps up for better secondaries..


Again, only have a month running it, but have been trying to have a fire nightly (in the basement, makes it possible) and the last few days its been running 24/7. Learned a lot in this time. Shutting it down tonight to clean ashes and check flue. Everyone says check it monthly. Has not had a Full Month per say, but I am curious as to what I may find (hopefully nothing but a light ash, but wont know till tomorrow)

Post your results of the magnets over the holes. Very curious myself. My wife wants the legs installed also. Which is another reason the stove must cool down.
Pellet stove roars tonight!

 

[leeave96]

OK - got the stove burning at 500 degrees stove top with some lively secondaries and no smoke out the chimney. With the zipper air cut off, it seems like I've got more damper control and the air feed to the splits is more even across the front of the stove.

Adjusting the damper it's pretty clear that you have to have 480ish to 500 degrees stove top to get the secondaries to light off and sustain. No secondaries = smoke out the chimney (not counting charcoal stage).

I'm trying to strike a balance between flames off the splits vs secondaries and damper location that gets me the lowest settings for extended burn with a clean no smoke out the chimney. Right now, the damper is set so the damper spring is halfway between the edge of the door ash lip.

Bill

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah with the zipper air blocked you have to remember that you have created a "smoke dragon" with secondary burn. You are the one that has to make sure there is sufficient primary air coming down off that glass to maintain the burn. There will be none of that "close it down" stuff. Big boy gotta breathe.

And the lil doghouse is gonna block any primary air coming down the center of the glass from turning into middle of the fire.

 

[leeave96]

Yeah with the zipper air blocked you have to remember that you have created a "smoke dragon" with secondary burn. You are the one that has to make sure there is sufficient primary air coming down off that glass to maintain the burn. There will be none of that "close it down" stuff. Big boy gotta breathe.

And the lil doghouse is gonna block any primary air coming down the center of the glass from turning into middle of the fire.

10-4 on the above. I have read some of your posts on this mod/burn technique. It's becoming apparent that you have to have some flames going off the splits to maintain enough firebox heat to keep the secondaries going as the secondaries alone appear not to create enough heat to sustain them on a smolder burn. This is much different than my cat stove where there can be zero flame in the firebox and yet a bright orange cat glowing - chewing on smoke and a 600 degree stove top temp off the cat.

I'm gettin close. I'll likely change my mind on some of this stuff and have to relearn the stove once the temps reallly plunge and the draft gets stronger.

Bill

 

[DexterDay]

600 is my avg temp. Little higher on reload. Little lower on coals (400). I would rather have the air. Once the stove is over 650 and the wood is gassing out pretty good, the air can be shut down almost all the way (1/2" open) and still maintain a 600* stovetop for hrs. Mind you I am using Pine and Silver Maple as my wood right now. This may have a lot to do with it. I am saving everything worth saving, for the cold months.

 

[leeave96]

I had a pretty good burn last night. Didn't load the stove full - pretty much got the fire going and loaded the stove about half full on top of the smaller splits I used to get the fire started.

The temp, from a cold stove, climbed pretty quickly to 400 and then 500 degrees stove top and I got a damper setting that gave me no smoke out the chimney, nice secondaries and with the zipper air blocked - a nice even cigar burn across the front of the stove. I didn't do a reload before hitting the sack tonight and just let the stove burn out. I did check on it late last night and the secondaries had died down, but the wood had burned about half way back into the firebox and it looked like I was in the charcoal stage at that point so I wasn't worried to much about the secondaries.

I'm probably need to run the stove a bit hotter as I'm getting a bit of haze around the glass and some stain on my SS chimney cap/top. Some of this stain I am sure will wash down on the outside of my chase - which would be not so good. I moisture meter my wood and it is 20% and down from there, so I'm good on the wood. I think cooler temps will get me a bit more draft and allow for a hotter burn cleaning things up.

You definately don't want this stove in a small room - it would boil your blood. I haven't even kicked the stove into high gear yet - barley off idle as I see it. The heat seems to be moving upstairs very well through the stairs going up and the center section of the house is benefiting from stoves on either end of the house.

Bill